• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Cuomo commutes sentence of radical who took part in '81 robbery

Bum

I survived. Suck it, Schrodinger.
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
11,026
Reaction score
7,729
Location
Home
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
ALBANY — Just hours before leaving office, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo granted clemency to five men, including the commutation of the 75-years-to-life sentence of David Gilbert, a former member of the radical Weather Underground who in 1981 took part in the robbery of a Brink's armored truck in Rockland County that left two Nyack police officers and a security guard dead. Cuomo's action will allow Gilbert to make his case to the parole board. The 76-year-old has been incarcerated for four decades after being convicted of felony murder and robbery. He is currently confined at Shawangunk Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison in Ulster County, 80 miles south of Albany.


*sigh*......I just dont have the words.
 

Phys251

Anti-vax rhetoric threatens our liberty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
42,887
Reaction score
24,980
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
ALBANY — Just hours before leaving office, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo granted clemency to five men, including the commutation of the 75-years-to-life sentence of David Gilbert, a former member of the radical Weather Underground who in 1981 took part in the robbery of a Brink's armored truck in Rockland County that left two Nyack police officers and a security guard dead. Cuomo's action will allow Gilbert to make his case to the parole board. The 76-year-old has been incarcerated for four decades after being convicted of felony murder and robbery. He is currently confined at Shawangunk Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison in Ulster County, 80 miles south of Albany.


*sigh*......I just dont have the words.

At what point are the commutation and pardoning powers of governors and the President finally going to be scaled back?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bum

Bum

I survived. Suck it, Schrodinger.
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
11,026
Reaction score
7,729
Location
Home
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
At what point are the commutation and pardoning powers of governors and the President finally going to be scaled back?
I mean, I am sure there are plenty of people ( non violent offenders) that could have honestly benefited from such an action; but this was not one of them.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
50,068
Reaction score
34,224
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
At what point are the commutation and pardoning powers of governors and the President finally going to be scaled back?

In what way?

One should always be wary of doing away with mechanisms that might be used to redress true injustice, especially when based on examples of the mechanism being misused. Having one's shot in court guarantees very little indeed.

I'd err on the side of occasional misuse. Better that then there be no avenue of redress.



One limitation I would be for, however, would be to give some kind of judicial review. Not to every pardon or commutation, but where the issuance of the pardon protects or rewards the issuer. You'd obviously need to craft the standards in play carefully and decide who gets to challenge the pardon. Especially so if the issuer promises the pardon/commutation in advance.

(If it's a prosecutor's office, chances are they'll challenge just about anything ... they'll sometimes even fight to keep people in jail after their DNA excluded them from all samples collected at the scene, on the theory that it's possible to commit crimes without leaving DNA)



I'm not so sure about "this is a bad dude, so there should be a way to stop people like him receiving pardon/commutation"
 

RAMOSS

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
55,749
Reaction score
21,400
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
ALBANY — Just hours before leaving office, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo granted clemency to five men, including the commutation of the 75-years-to-life sentence of David Gilbert, a former member of the radical Weather Underground who in 1981 took part in the robbery of a Brink's armored truck in Rockland County that left two Nyack police officers and a security guard dead. Cuomo's action will allow Gilbert to make his case to the parole board. The 76-year-old has been incarcerated for four decades after being convicted of felony murder and robbery. He is currently confined at Shawangunk Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison in Ulster County, 80 miles south of Albany.


*sigh*......I just dont have the words.
I noticed that he has to make his case to the parole board. He is not automatically released, but he can make the plea to be released.
 

Roadvirus

Heading North
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
21,909
Reaction score
10,548
Location
Tennessee, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I mean, I am sure there are plenty of people ( non violent offenders) that could have honestly benefited from such an action; but this was not one of them.
Agreed. Like marijuana dealers or something.
 

Roadvirus

Heading North
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
21,909
Reaction score
10,548
Location
Tennessee, USA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
ALBANY — Just hours before leaving office, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo granted clemency to five men, including the commutation of the 75-years-to-life sentence of David Gilbert, a former member of the radical Weather Underground who in 1981 took part in the robbery of a Brink's armored truck in Rockland County that left two Nyack police officers and a security guard dead. Cuomo's action will allow Gilbert to make his case to the parole board. The 76-year-old has been incarcerated for four decades after being convicted of felony murder and robbery. He is currently confined at Shawangunk Correctional Facility, a maximum-security prison in Ulster County, 80 miles south of Albany.


*sigh*......I just dont have the words.
Just like Obama, who pardoned a Puerto Rican terrorist member AND Bradley Manning.
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
38,339
Reaction score
24,703
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In what way?

One should always be wary of doing away with mechanisms that might be used to redress true injustice, especially when based on examples of the mechanism being misused. Having one's shot in court guarantees very little indeed.

I'd err on the side of occasional misuse. Better that then there be no avenue of redress.



One limitation I would be for, however, would be to give some kind of judicial review. Not to every pardon or commutation, but where the issuance of the pardon protects or rewards the issuer. You'd obviously need to craft the standards in play carefully and decide who gets to challenge the pardon. Especially so if the issuer promises the pardon/commutation in advance.

(If it's a prosecutor's office, chances are they'll challenge just about anything ... they'll sometimes even fight to keep people in jail after their DNA excluded them from all samples collected at the scene, on the theory that it's possible to commit crimes without leaving DNA)



I'm not so sure about "this is a bad dude, so there should be a way to stop people like him receiving pardon/commutation"
I don’t have the lists, but I would think that the ”misuses” out weight the true injustices. I’m aware that the sensational ones sell news more than the riighteous pardons. I start with Marc Rich and I am sure that there were previous ones….
 

Da Mole

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
650
Location
Sunny red state Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
In what way?

One should always be wary of doing away with mechanisms that might be used to redress true injustice, especially when based on examples of the mechanism being misused. Having one's shot in court guarantees very little indeed.

I'd err on the side of occasional misuse. Better that then there be no avenue of redress.



One limitation I would be for, however, would be to give some kind of judicial review. Not to every pardon or commutation, but where the issuance of the pardon protects or rewards the issuer. You'd obviously need to craft the standards in play carefully and decide who gets to challenge the pardon. Especially so if the issuer promises the pardon/commutation in advance.

(If it's a prosecutor's office, chances are they'll challenge just about anything ... they'll sometimes even fight to keep people in jail after their DNA excluded them from all samples collected at the scene, on the theory that it's possible to commit crimes without leaving DNA)



I'm not so sure about "this is a bad dude, so there should be a way to stop people like him receiving pardon/commutation"
Without all the head scratching, this was just a career, corrupt politician feathering his nest. I could be wrong but I think that Gilberts brother is a DA in the great state of California or has big time connections. Would not supprise me if Cuomo is on the next train to leftist land, with something cushy being planned for his future. Three people are dead, they have been dead for about 40 years, they will always be dead and those responsible should get no mercy.
 

Bum

I survived. Suck it, Schrodinger.
Dungeon Master
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
11,026
Reaction score
7,729
Location
Home
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Without all the head scratching, this was just a career, corrupt politician feathering his nest. I could be wrong but I think that Gilberts brother is a DA in the great state of California or has big time connections. Would not supprise me if Cuomo is on the next train to leftist land, with something cushy being planned for his future. Three people are dead, they have been dead for about 40 years, they will always be dead and those responsible should get no mercy.
His son Chesa Boudin, is the district attorney of San Francisco.
 

SCrider

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 22, 2018
Messages
9,042
Reaction score
5,126
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
I noticed that he has to make his case to the parole board. He is not automatically released, but he can make the plea to be released.
Notice how everyone is going to skip right over this key part and just go straight to expressing their confirmed bias.....
 

Jack Fabulous

Friend Zone
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 17, 2012
Messages
15,588
Reaction score
5,715
Location
midwest
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
His son Chesa Boudin, is the district attorney of San Francisco.
Bingo!

Anyone who thinks this is anything other than those in positions of power licking each other's nuts is a complete fool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bum

Da Mole

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
650
Location
Sunny red state Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
His son Chesa Boudin, is the district attorney of San Francisco.
Well, I was close. Looks to be the begining of the usual "you scratch my back and I will scratch yours". The pond from sea to shinning sea.
 

Candyman

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
715
Reaction score
1,010
Location
Central NY
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I find most outgoing Presidents and now ex-gov Cuomo have questionable pardons in their pocket. Trump had A LOT! I don't agree with most of them and this one is no different. As a New Yorker I'm glad Cuomo is gone. Not that I expect any change with Governor Hochul. Politics in NY hasn't changed in decades. But one less blow-hard to listen to.
 

roguenuke

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
52,644
Reaction score
19,407
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't have much of an issue with this one. While I understand that he did kill people, there is information saying that he has changed during his 40 years in jail. This also isn't a pardon, but just simply a chance for him to get out on parole, which would likely be for the rest of or most of the rest of his life, if he even is granted parole.

I do agree with limiting the powers of pardon and clemency given to the President and Governors, but it should be based on whether granting clemency or a pardon is based on personal connections to the President or Governor and then still just be a review for those specific cases (and 7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon shouldn't be the basis for determining a "personal connection") that comes with some level of agreement from other branches. Level of clemency being given should also come into play here as well for how much agreement is needed for such situations.

And no secret pardons.
 

Da Mole

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 26, 2019
Messages
2,878
Reaction score
650
Location
Sunny red state Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I find most outgoing Presidents and now ex-gov Cuomo have questionable pardons in their pocket. Trump had A LOT! I don't agree with most of them and this one is no different. As a New Yorker I'm glad Cuomo is gone. Not that I expect any change with Governor Hochul. Politics in NY hasn't changed in decades. But one less blow-hard to listen to.
I just had a visit from a daughter and husband. They are both employed and together make a good living. Even so, they live day to day and of course being related to me, absolutely hate the politics in New York. He can take a 20 yr pension which only amounts to 27% of his salary. He so hates the Island with it's changing demographics and the miserable politics and traffic that he is willing to take the drastic loss of income and just get the hell out and come South. We are on the road to three areas of population. The ghetto, the barrio and the suburbs. I forgot about the land of the Mosque's. What happened to the melting pot which made us the greatest?
 

Credence

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
938
Reaction score
971
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Independent
I think anyone who commits felony murder should remain in jail for the rest of their lives
 

Plasmaball

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
5,143
Reaction score
2,904
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
He's 76..calm yourselves
 

roguenuke

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
52,644
Reaction score
19,407
Location
Rolesville, NC
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't have much of an issue with this one. While I understand that he did kill people, there is information saying that he has changed during his 40 years in jail. This also isn't a pardon, but just simply a chance for him to get out on parole, which would likely be for the rest of or most of the rest of his life, if he even is granted parole.

I do agree with limiting the powers of pardon and clemency given to the President and Governors, but it should be based on whether granting clemency or a pardon is based on personal connections to the President or Governor and then still just be a review for those specific cases (and 7 Degrees of Kevin Bacon shouldn't be the basis for determining a "personal connection") that comes with some level of agreement from other branches. Level of clemency being given should also come into play here as well for how much agreement is needed for such situations.

And no secret pardons.
So looking at what happened here, he didn't actually kill anyone. He was very wrong for what he did and I support felony murder as a charge, but then there were members of this group who were actually legitimately involved in the killings that occurred (he wasn't) who got less time than he did.


While he did not show any remorse for his actions then, it does sound like, from other reports I've read, that he has since shown such remorse and regret for his involvement.
 
Top Bottom