Cuomo blames federal tax law for $2.3 billion New York state budget deficit

[Conservative]

When calculating how much funding the various states get from the federal government vs how much they pay, it doesn't count the SALT deduction which, in itself, represents a federal subsidy.

Come on this is ridiculous, salt has absolutely nothing to do with the federal mandates and payment of federal expenses with Federal taxpayer dollars I don't understand you people why do you believe that the state taxpayers have to pay for federal expenses and federal mandates? You're looking at the bottom line and not context

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[Conservative]

The SALT simply determines how much a taxpayer pays in federal taxes. More State and Local Tax deductions means paying less federal income taxes. STILL, even when one has more state and local tax deductions which helps him pay less federal taxes, AS LONG AS he overall receives less federal funds than what he contributes through his federal taxes, he is NOT subsidized in any way. On the contrary, he contributes more to the federal coffers than what he receives back. So, he is a "donor", and his donation is directed through the federal government to recipients in other states. Thus, by simply lowering SALT deductions for taxpayers in "donor" blue states, you just increase their federal taxes and effectively increase their "donation."

You are absolutely clueless on this issue. Salt has absolutely nothing to do with paying Federal expenses and for federal mandates I certainly hope that you are smarter than your posts.

Apparently you believe that the people of your State ought to pay for the military bases in your state, the federal retirees in your state, all federal employees in your state. Stop and think before posting

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[Conservative]

One can speak of an individual, but in the aggregate, the wealthy blue states send more dollars to the Federal Government then it gets back.

The reduction of the SALT deduction l.... for individuals mind you not corporations... means that the aggregate will be sending even more dollars than they get back.

Why exactly does it matter how much money goes from the blue state to the federal government? Federal expenses and federal mandates determine what the states get back regardless of the revenue that goes to the federal government from the state

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[MTAtech]

Oh, most definitely. At some point, one knows tax-frugality isn't what drives one's decision about where to live or work. I can't put a specific figure to that point, but I'm pretty sure that it's well below $150M home purchase price (or assessed property value) mark. LOL

I agree. My rich friends don't seem to mind spending $100K on a car or millions on a home or apartment. If saving money was their objective, they could buy lesser cars and residents. Taxes are merely a cost to living in great places.

To reply to those that say that limiting SALT deductions only hurts rich people, I got my property tax statement and I paid over $18,000 last year and I'm not rich.

 

[pamak]

You are absolutely clueless on this issue. Salt has absolutely nothing to do with paying Federal expenses and for federal mandates I certainly hope that you are smarter than your posts.

Apparently you believe that the people of your State ought to pay for the military bases in your state, the federal retirees in your state, all federal employees in your state. Stop and think before posting

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Bold mine!

Do you understand that federal taxes pay for every federal expense?

Are you aware that state and local Tax (SALT) deductions lower federal taxes?

You sound like someone who has never filed a tax return.

 

[Conservative]

I think you are right. There is also a little fact that the OP doesn't realize -- lowering their taxes isn't the most important aspect in life for rich people. There is an apartment in NYC that recently sold for $150 million. Someone who can afford that amount of money for an apartment isn't going to move to Mississippi to save on taxes. Rich people want to live in vibrant cities and taxes don't scare them away.

It is obvious to me that you have no understanding of what a federal mandate or a federal expense is. It has absolutely nothing to do with a dollars that go from the state to the federal government

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[MTAtech]

It is obvious to me that you have no understanding of what a federal mandate or a federal expense is. It has absolutely nothing to do with a dollars that go from the state to the federal government

Thanks for your comment. I'll give it the due it is worth and forget it.

 

[Xelor]

Seems like both of you are wrong. Lets remember that we don't have to be talking about all rich people,just some. Someone who lives in the NE and has significant income or wealth may already have property in Florida for example. So to be a legal resident of Florida rather than NY,NJ or CT you need to spend six months and a day there. Not for everyone that is true. It doesn't take everyone to take a big bite out of the tax revenues of these states.

Pretty easy for a hedge fund manager to "move" his/her headquarters. Spending the winter plus a few months is not exactly a hardship for some.

NY and NYC each is a high enough taxing state and city, respectively, that if one were of a mind to do that, and you're right it's not particularly hard to do, in 2018, one almost certainly did it in 2017; thus that activity wouldn't account for the delta in 2017 and 2018 NY state tax revenue.

 

[Conservative]

Bold mine!

Do you understand that federal taxes pay for every federal expense?

Are you aware that state and local Tax (SALT) deductions lower federal taxes?

You sound like someone who talks like he never filed a tax return.

Since when do federal taxes ever equal what federal expenses are? Of course I understand what federal taxes are, do you understand what a federal mandate is and a federal expense? The two issues are different.

Federal mandates are created by federal law and no State should be required to pay for federal mandates. You don't want red states to get Federal mandates then tell your representatives that and maybe all the military bases, federal employees, and federal retirees will move to a blue state with his high taxes

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[Conservative]

Thanks for your comment. I'll give it the due it is worth and forget it.

Not surprising at all because you have proven over and over again you have no understanding of federal law and federal mandates

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[Xelor]

I agree. My rich friends don't seem to mind spending $100K on a car or millions on a home or apartment. If saving money was their objective, they could buy lesser cars and residents. Taxes are merely a cost to living in great places.

To reply to those that say that limiting SALT deductions only hurts rich people, I got my property tax statement and I paid over $18,000 last year and I'm not rich.

Red:
The limitation the TCJA implemented affects plenty of folks whom few would classify as "wealthy" or "rich." One need only divide 22,000 by whatever be the property tax rate in one's locality to get a sense of how not-pricey a home need be for one to be adversely affected by the TCJA's SALT tax deduction limit.

 

[pamak]

Since when do federal taxes ever equal what federal expenses are? Of course I understand what federal taxes are, do you understand what a federal mandate is and a federal expense? The two issues are different.

Federal mandates are created by federal law and no State should be required to pay for federal mandates. You don't want red states to get Federal mandates then tell your representatives that and maybe all the military bases, federal employees, and federal retirees will move to a blue state with his high taxes

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Can you tell us who pays for the military bases? I say that the federal taxes are used for such military expenses. I also say that the residents of every state who pay federal taxes actually pay for the military expenses and military bases. Yes, state residents, including CA residents like me who are not even US citizens pay for the military bases of the US..

 

[Jezcoe]

Why exactly does it matter how much money goes from the blue state to the federal government? Federal expenses and federal mandates determine what the states get back regardless of the revenue that goes to the federal government from the state

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The aggregate is the only real way to make the comparison in my opinion.

So when one talks of federal expenses and federal mandates one should look at the reasons why the disparities in federal dollars exist in the first place. The social engineering that can be complained about through high taxes that tend to happen in the blue states tends to lead to more local spending on Investments that require less federal dollars.

So even with the Full SALT deduction, the blue states still tend to be net exporters of federal tax dollars because the “social engineering” keeps the need for those dollars lower.

Now with the SALT deduction capped, the blue states will become an even greater exporter of federal money.

This is a bad move long term on the GOP’s part. They basically guaranteed the red pockets in the blue states lose support for putting Republicans in the House.

We saw that very thing happen in the last election cycle.

 

[Jack Hays]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cu...for-2-3-billion-new-york-state-budget-deficit



LOL, yep, look what taxing the rich does for one of the bluest states in the nation. It is about damn time that the cost of blue state social engineering and high costs of that engineering comes to light. Keep driving people out of the states, leftists!! the true cost of liberalism now being felt by even rich liberals

The end of a subsidy for wealthy residents of high tax states.

 

[washunut]

NY and NYC each is a high enough taxing state and city, respectively, that if one were of a mind to do that, and you're right it's not particularly hard to do, in 2018, one almost certainly did it in 2017; thus that activity wouldn't account for the delta in 2017 and 2018 NY state tax revenue.

You are correct, this exodus did not start in 2018. However it did add fuel to the fire.

 

[Jezcoe]

You are correct, this exodus did not start in 2018. However it did add fuel to the fire.

The problem with people leaving NYC isn’t about the “rich” leaving but middle class labor being pushed out and it has little
to do with taxation.

 

[Jack Hays]

I think that the outflow from higher taxed (and thus higher cost of living) states/cities is more than just a reaction to the recent limiting of the SALT federal income tax deduction.

Yup. We live in a pleasant community in Virginia. It is neither a retirement community nor a senior living community, but it attracts a significant number of retirees like us. Very many come from New York, New Jersey and Connecticut, and describe themselves as "tax refugees."

 

[Doc91478]

Are those local or state taxes if you don’t mind me asking.

I have lived in Brooklyn for 22 years.

I have property in Maine... not exactly the wealthiest of States and my property taxes there are from the localities, not the State.

Those are County and local school taxes. Something you don't pay in the borough of Brooklyn. If you live outside the five boroughs you are forced to pay these high taxes.

 

[Jezcoe]

Those are County and local school taxes. Something you don't pay in the borough of Brooklyn. If you live outside the five boroughs you are forced to pay these high taxes.

That’s what I thought.

Thank you for your response.

 

[Xelor]

The problem with people leaving NYC isn’t about the “rich” leaving but middle class labor being pushed out and it has little
to do with taxation.

I don't know that I think the "gentrification" is a problem, but I agree that income taxes have little to nothing to do with it.

 

[holbritter]

What the hell is a welfare state?

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New York's nickname

 

[holbritter]

Bold mine!.

Yep! This is why I said that one needs to see the big picture. His argument that a person who earns 100,000 in a low-income-tax state pays more federal taxes than a person who earns the same amount in a high income is correct. . However, this "excess" of taxes is not directed to high-income-tax blue states because, as it was shown, these states pay more to the federal government than what they receive back.This "excess" of taxes is directed to poor red states which have a very high percentage of population which needs federal assistance which is often the result of low minimum wage state laws, weaker unions, and weaker worker rights in general.

'Blue' states receive more from the Feds for infrastructure than 'Red' states. Is that taken into account in your math?

 

[holbritter]

I agree. My rich friends don't seem to mind spending $100K on a car or millions on a home or apartment. If saving money was their objective, they could buy lesser cars and residents. Taxes are merely a cost to living in great places.

To reply to those that say that limiting SALT deductions only hurts rich people, I got my property tax statement and I paid over $18,000 last year and I'm not rich.

:shock: If you can afford $18k in property tax, I'd say you were rich.

 

[Jezcoe]

I don't know that I think the "gentrification" is a problem, but I agree that income taxes have little to nothing to do with it.

Rising costs is a big problem.

Rent blight is also putting the squeeze on people.

 

[MTAtech]

'Blue' states receive more from the Feds for infrastructure than 'Red' states. Is that taken into account in your math?

Blue states pay more to the federal government than Red states. Red states can afford to have low taxes because blue states subsidize the red states.

AP FACT CHECK: Blue high-tax states fund red low-tax states

WASHINGTON (AP) — Republican leaders have spent months promoting the myth that red low-tax states are subsidizing blue high-tax states because of the deduction for state and local taxes.

An Associated Press Fact Check finds it’s actually the other way around. High-tax, traditionally Democratic states (blue), subsidize low-tax, traditionally Republican states (red) — in a big way.
...
Mississippi received $2.13 for every tax dollar the state sent to Washington in 2015, according to the Rockefeller study. West Virginia received $2.07, Kentucky got $1.90 and South Carolina got $1.71.

Meanwhile, New Jersey received 74 cents in federal spending for tax every dollar the state sent to Washington. New York received 81 cents, Connecticut received 82 cents and Massachusetts received 83 cents.