- Joined
- Jan 20, 2014
- Messages
- 51,768
- Reaction score
- 14,180
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
Then you would argue wrongly. As Obama is discovering now.
How horrific. People aren't the personal property of their government. Feel free to be apathetic if you like but I would like my government to advocate for liberalism and democracy by whatever the most effective path is. Internationalism forever.
Another Obama foreign policy success. :doh
Can someone explain what we got in return for this?
Cuba is beginning to dismantle its socialist system but it won't happen overnight. Cuban bureaucrats face the same problems Russian bureaucrats did when they dismantled the USSR, how to create a new Cuban bourgeoisie. It will be a long, patient degradation as private investment is allowed in and government assets are privatized, but it's pretty inevitable given how they have been running the country.
Read the OP. Even if he gets anything from the talks (he won't) he'll have to get it by congress (he won't).
Cigars and really good sandwiches.
But I can get that pretty much anywhere in the US. Dominican seed cigars are much better than much of the traditional cuban tobacco and hell.... the US lives on good and even great sammiches.
My point was it takes effort to enforce an embargo. Your response relates our internal political hardships of moving this forward. Not the constant monitoring of imports and exports from right off our shore.
Not true.Opening trade with Cuba does nothing whatsoever for us.
Nope. It makes us look like we are joining the rest of the world. Do I need to remind you on those 23 UN votes?Not in image, we just look weak.
Not true. See above.Not economically either, they'll just need aid.
Also not true.And imports? They have nothing we need. Tin maybe, we already have plenty of that.
Oh good grief, stalk someone else.
We'll never stop monitoring imports and exports right off our shore, embargo or no. It takes virtually no effort to maintain the embargo. What requires effort at this point is changing that. And absolutely no good reason to do so.
China has billions of customers and we really wanted into that market. We're talking about Cuba here and you still utterly fail in showing any sort of compelling reason to end their embargo.
HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.
"One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."
cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leaves-talks-us-ties-insisting-wont-major-224809935.html
The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 6 hours ago
I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
HAVANA - The start of talks on repairing 50 years of broken relations appears to have left President Raul Castro's government focused on winning additional concessions without giving in to U.S. demands for greater freedoms, despite the seeming benefits that warmer ties could have for the country's struggling economy. Following the highest-level open talks in three decades between the two nations, Cuban officials remained firm in rejecting significant reforms pushed by the United States as part of President Barack Obama's surprise move to re-establish ties and rebuild economic relations with the Communist-led country.
"One can't think that in order to improve and normalize relations with the U.S., Cuba has to give up the principles it believes in," Cuba's top diplomat for U.S. affairs, Josefina Vidal, told The Associated Press after the end of the talks. "Changes in Cuba aren't negotiable."
cont...https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cuba-leaves-talks-us-ties-insisting-wont-major-224809935.html
The Canadian PressBy Michael Weissenstein And Anne-Marie Garcia, The Associated Press | The Canadian Press – 6 hours ago
I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
11 million people who've never had the perks of living in capitalism is a good enough reason to end the embargo. Hell, ask any business if they wouldn't enjoy 11 million untapped customers 90 miles from the US. 11 million workers who wouldn't mind working for half of an union member's salary if not less. Now, China's ~1.3 billion (not billions) customers weren't there in 1972. The country was an economic mess thanks to Mao's cultural revolution. More importantly, the PRC never gave up ideological control of the country and the Mainland is still very much ruled by it. As such, political reform has never been that important to establishing relations with a nation. That makes you wrong on how many arguments now?
I think that the USA should start by deciding how much in USA Dollars we
owe Cuba as a result of the 50 year embargo and sabotage. We definitely
owe reparations to that Nation. Maybe they'll be kind enough to lend us a
few Doctors or allow US students to attend Med School in Cuba.
What do you mean of course it will fix their situation? When Cuba gets more money (through its state owned business) who gets the money-the govt or the people? Plenty of western nations do business there now and its a crap hole. How would more money change that?
The only thing it does it allow the leadership to improve its security. Let me guess, you thought the "fair and equitable" commies were going to hand it out to the people of Cuba?
All communism does is make everyone equally poor and miserable (excepting the elites). And Obama is helping to do exactly that.
Not true.
"The US Chamber of Commerce opposes the embargo, saying that it costs the United States $1.2 billion annually in lost sales of exports."
https://www.uschamber.com/sites/default/files/legacy/testimony/090427tradecuba.pdf
" If the embargo were lifted, the average American farmer would feel a difference in his or her life within two to three years"
Jacksonville.com: Study says U.S. farmers losing from sanctions on Cuba 1/28/02
Nope. It makes us look like we are joining the rest of the world. Do I need to remind you on those 23 UN votes?
Not true. See above.
Also not true.
"US exports to Cuba could reach $4.3 billion (3.5 billion euros) a year, compared to less than $360 million last year, according to analysts at the Peterson Institute for International Economics. Cuban merchandise imports to the US could go to $5.8 billion a year - a big improvement from today's zero."
Businesses optimistic as US-Cuba relations thaw | Business | DW.DE | 18.12.2014
Oh yeah, China's population in 72 was ONLY 892 million. And we all knew where that trend was going, they weren't going to get smaller. A market largely untapped by the West.
I know, you're investing emotionally in China and your image of it. Fine, let's not talk of China anymore, it drives you nuts apparently. Since this thread is about Cuba, let's talk about Cuba.
That's what happens when you don't understand the use of smart power in international relations. Obama opened up by bending over and letting Castro have fun with his ass and now Obama is trying to reclaim his virginity. That's not the way international relations works.
The agricultural market argument is rank bull****. Predicated upon the specious presumption that farmers have an overproduction of goods. Are those farmers going to start producing more to meet the demand? Will more agricultural land magically appear? Is there agricultural land going fallow now, waiting for a greater market?
Of course the Chamber wants it, they also are just fine with open borders.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?