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'Cruel and neglectful' care of one million NHS patients exposed

Laila said:
And those 1 million should be taken care with struck off nurses.
That is all.

I do find this all very amusing.
Americans having to attack NHS to get at Obama's plan.
Newsflash people: The system we have in UK will not be in use in US.
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I don't think that's entirely fair. A lot of issues with nursing come about because of the nursing shortage. Wards are quite often under-staffed, and in wards without enough support staff, nurses are often required to perform the work auxillaries would usually do, forcing them to take time awy from caring for patients. Everyone should receive good treatment from the NHS, but one complaint, one mistake, should not be enough to destroy someone's career, without knowing the context in which the incident occurred.
 
Gill said:
There is another thread about the abysmal care of expectant mothers under the English NHS system. In that thread, many lefties and a few Brits did everything possible to kill the messenger rather than dispute the message.
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No, people disputed a misleading post. It claimed that 400 women were forced by the NHS in corridors, when in fact this number counted all women who had not given birth in beds in a maternity ward. Women who had given birth on-route to the hospital, in the Accident and Emergency Department, in wards which were not maternity wards, in birthing pools and birthing rooms were lumped into this number. It was a false claim, and it was dealth with previously.


There are incompetent workers in every industry, be it healthcare or otherwise, government run or part of the private service.

 

Thanks for repeating exactly what I said previously and proving my point. :2wave:


These complaints are unfortunate, and should be dealth with, but considering that the NHS deals with a million patients per 36 hours, a million complaints isn't even that high a number.
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So you are claiming that each Brit goes to the doctor every 34 days??
 
Happy Days said:
The Republican Party had 8 years to fix a very broken US healthcare system and they chose to fight the Iraq war instead. Now the Democrats are in power and they get to choose how the fix happens. Choices.
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Yes, the Dems are in power, except you can't convince enough of the members in your own party to vote for this boondoggle.

Can you?
 
PeteEU said:
General perception where? Right wing loony land?
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Besides taking my thread off topic, do you really believe that every single person that disagrees with you is a right wing loony??

I find it sad that someone could actually believe that they are right 100% of the time.

I'm sure you won't mind being referred to as a left wing loony then, will you?
 
Gill said:
Thanks for repeating exactly what I said previously and proving my point. :2wave:
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I did not so thing. You claied most of those employed by the NHS were beauracrats. I showed that half are medical professionals, and the other half includes medical support staff as well as administrative staff. How exactly can you class nurse's assisstants, porters, laboratory technicians, housekeeping staff and catering staff as being "beauracrats"?




Gill said:
So you are claiming that each Brit goes to the doctor every 34 days??
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Nope, never said that anywhere. At all.

The one million patients dealt with per 36 statistic comes from the NHS report which I linked on my previous post. That figure includes visits to NHS dentists, GP's surgeries, accident and emergency departments, hospitals and clinics, home visits by health visitors, and calls to the NHS's telephone helpline, which advises people on how to treat minor ailments and home and when to seek assesment.
 
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Less than half are "clinically qualified". Exactly what I said. Thanks again.





51 million people in England

1 million every 36 hours = 1 visit, or contact if you prefer, every 34 days. It's very simple math.

Sounds to me like free health care has created a nation of hypochondriacs. That's one of the fears of free health care in this country.
 
Gill said:
Less than half are "clinically qualified". Exactly what I said. Thanks again.
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No, you said the majority were beauracrats. I'm sure that'll be surprising realisation for many people who cook, clean, transport patients, arrange appointments and analyse blood samples for the NHS



Wrong. I already said that that figure included EVERY conceivable use of the NHS, (which in fact serves 58 million) from heart surgery, to having a prescription filled, to having a bad tooth pulled, to calling NHS Direct to ask what the best way is to treat a colicky child. Not every instance was a doctor's visit, as I said before.

And in addition, you seem to be ignoring the fact that an average is just an average. Many people go years without seeing a doctor; others have chronic conditions and need regular check-ups and treatment which drives up the number of patients treated over any given period of time. A cancer patient might need upwards of 20 examinations and treatment sessions a year. The average, healthy adult might end up at the doctors once a year or less.
 
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Anima said:
No, you said the majority were beauracrats. I'm sure that'll be surprising realisation for many people who cook, clean, transport patients, arrange appointments and analyse blood samples for the NHS
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If they're not caregivers, they are bureaucrats.


Wrong. I already said that that figure included EVERY conceivable use of the NHS
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Once again, that is EXACTLY what I said. :doh
 
Its a great story and everything, but we are not England.

Isn't this article equivalent to me making an argument against Democracy because the one in Afghanistan is inefficient?
 
JakeFromWI said:
Its a great story and everything, but we are not England.

Isn't this article equivalent to me making an argument against Democracy because the one in Afghanistan is inefficient?
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If we were just now forming our democracy, study of Afghanistan's troubles would be helpful don't you think??
 
Gill said:
If we were just now forming our democracy, study of Afghanistan's troubles would be helpful don't you think??
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Certainly, if you were actually putting in an effort to form a democracy, rather than use such a study on Afghanistan as undeniable proof that democracy is inefficient.
 
JakeFromWI said:
Certainly, if you were actually putting in an effort to form a democracy, rather than use such a study on Afghanistan as undeniable proof that democracy is inefficient.
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If someone was doing that, I would agree with you.
 
Since when did you consider proof from scientific studies anyway, considering you deny global warming.

Substitute "new health care system" for democracy in the initial statement, then you would through the transitive property, agree with my point
 
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JakeFromWI said:
Since when did you consider proof from scientific studies anyway, considering you deny global warming.
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That's a bit off topic don't you think??

But you are welcome to visit the Environment forum and comment on the peer reviewed paper I recently started a thread on.
 
Gill said:
If they're not caregivers, they are bureaucrats.
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No, they're not. They're porters and cooks and cleaners and lab techs, and they play a role in patient care, be it by providing meals or transporting people from ward to ward. Every health care system in the world has them, be it private or government run. The word "beauracrat" actualy means something. It's not a term to fling around to make it appear that a system you personally are wary of is bloated with unnecessary staff.



Gill said:
Once again, that is EXACTLY what I said. :doh
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No, you said "doctor visits". Filling a prescription does not involve a doctor. Receiving a visit from a health-visitor (a nurse with additional training in community wellbeing) does not involve a doctor. Phoning a helpline does not involve a doctor. Attending an NHS-run exercise rehabilitation program does not involve a doctor. It's a gross mischaracterisation to say that each instance of NHS treatment is a "doctor's visit" and to use this assertion to claim that national healthcare breeds hypochondriacs.
 

1 million every 36 hours = 1 visit, or contact if you prefer, every 34 days. It's very simple math.
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Careful reading will result in fewer embarrassing moments.
 
Gill said:
Careful reading will result in fewer embarrassing moments.
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I'm not embarrassed, dear. It's not me claiming that cooking food or changing bed linen makes one a beauracrat.
 
Gill said:
Yes, the Dems are in power, except you can't convince enough of the members in your own party to vote for this boondoggle.

Can you?
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If you think this is an easy decision for anyone then you are an idiot. I'm a registered Republican btw, so my own party are the Republicans. I believe that everyone should work for a living and support themselves as best they can, but there are some issues bigger than individuals. The Republicans should have fixed this while they were in power. They would have done a better job of it than the Dems, but they chose not to. More fool us as Republicans.
 
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