CRT and the end game of a cultural revolution

[ecofarm]

I should note, of course there was lots of racism in middle class surburbia, I just didn't catch on because it wasn't something ever mentioned at home (which is not good, but such was the 70s).

 

[bluesmoke]

No, it's not definitional that if a group of one kind devises a system, it will be biased against a group of a much different kind.

Our number system was developed in India. Do you think that it's biased toward Indians?

Do you think that Einstein's Field Equations and Maxwell's Equations of electromagnetism are biased toward Europeans?

Mathematics and science (or STEM) deal with quantifiable, measurable truths. There have been developments in these fields all over the world by different "groups", and none of those developments fail to translate perfectly into the world of another "group".

If Newton's Laws of Motion had been developed by American Indians, or Chinese, or Africans, they would have been the same.

Bias is inevitable. It is fair to have an equality of bias, aka “diversification”. It is not fair to have a disproportionate bias. It is better to have equal proportions of unfair than disproportionate of one.I don’t know what you mean by “number system”. “Natural numbers”, as in 1, 2, 3…, are Babylonian. Anywho, I get your point. Because one group, the Babylonians, developed a system of their own is bias only if it is prejudice. Even if it is bias by stretching definition of being of its own and without consideration of others, it was adopted by others w/o any harm to themselves or to those whom did not do so. No harm, no foul, no bias.

Any bias in the equations of Einstein and Maxwell would be, IMO, so minimal as to be insignificant. But I don’t know. I’ve not done any research in that vein.

Yeah. And STEM translates into curricula as “white, white, white”.

If your post was written by me, it would have been the same.

 

[Hypothetical]

no STEM? we're going to be worse than China.

STEM is the foundation of technology. without technology we are doomed.

I don't get it, what do you think our rulers are going to do with the millions of uneducated masses?

see this:

when its perfected, and it is a damn site far along, there are many things they will not need uneducated masses for.

 

[eohrnberger]

no STEM? we're going to be worse than China.

STEM is the foundation of technology. without technology we are doomed.

I don't get it, what do you think our rulers are going to do with the millions of uneducated masses?

see this:

when its perfected, and it is a damn site far along, there are many things they will not need uneducated masses for.

Wasn't Boston Dynamics' robots debunked as actors on green screens?





Thought so.

 

[vanceen]

Bias is inevitable. It is fair to have an equality of bias, aka “diversification”. It is not fair to have a disproportionate bias. It is better to have equal proportions of unfair than disproportionate of one.I don’t know what you mean by “number system”. “Natural numbers”, as in 1, 2, 3…, are Babylonian. Anywho, I get your point. Because one group, the Babylonians, developed a system of their own is bias only if it is prejudice. Even if it is bias by stretching definition of being of its own and without consideration of others, it was adopted by others w/o any harm to themselves or to those whom did not do so. No harm, no foul, no bias.

Any bias in the equations of Einstein and Maxwell would be, IMO, so minimal as to be insignificant. But I don’t know. I’ve not done any research in that vein.

Yeah. And STEM translates into curricula as “white, white, white”.

If your post was written by me, it would have been the same.

I agree with most of that. I think you will find that our number symbols are, in fact, Indian in origin. They are called Arabic numerals because Arab cultures transmitted them into Europe. (The concept of "zero" also came from India.)

Very sensible, but then you throw in "...STEM translates into curricula as 'white, white, white'." I don't see how you get that. The principles of mathematics and science are universal, they aren't "white". You state "bias is inevitable"; I don't think that's an established fact, but even if it were, bias isn't always applicable. 2+2=4 for every human ever born, no matter who formulated the notation.

 

[calamity]

"oh noes....a race baiting post!"

Nope, just responding in kind.

 

[Visbek]

Wasn't Boston Dynamics' robots debunked as actors on green screens?

Nope.

I, along with thousands of others, have seen the BD robots in action.

In fact, you've got it completely backwards. A couple of CGI jockeys were inspired by the Boston Dynamics videos to make a fake one, and it took a huge effort. E.g. moving cameras were exceptionally difficult. You can also tell that the Corridor Crew's CGI has much more fluid motion than the real BD robot.

This stuff is real. It won't be long before Amazon uses them to replace more human workers, too.

 

[Hypothetical]

Nope.

I, along with thousands of others, have seen the BD robots in action.

In fact, you've got it completely backwards. A couple of CGI jockeys were inspired by the Boston Dynamics videos to make a fake one, and it took a huge effort. E.g. moving cameras were exceptionally difficult. You can also tell that the Corridor Crew's CGI has much more fluid motion than the real BD robot.

This stuff is real. It won't be long before Amazon uses them to replace more human workers, too.

absolutely, and I don't know about you , but it won't hurt me to have less competition in the tech industry, yet people do not understand what is coming.

Inflation is rising, the economy is changing and no STEM because its racist? Progressives better get their priorities straight... I have no doubt their precious leaders are NOT planning to give them a check for existing every month in some utopia when they no longer need worker drones, or need a LOT fewer of them.

 

[bluesmoke]

no STEM? we're going to be worse than China.

STEM is the foundation of technology. without technology we are doomed.

I don't get it, what do you think our rulers are going to do with the millions of uneducated masses?

see this:

when its perfected, and it is a damn site far along, there are many things they will not need uneducated masses for.

Did I say to get rid of what you describe as the value of STEM? You assume a false premise.

 

[Hypothetical]

Did I say to get rid of what you describe as the value of STEM? You assume a false premise.

hardly, as anything labeled as racist nowadays appears to have 2 choices associated with going forward: get rid of it , or modify it beyond recognition.

 

[Visbek]

Inflation is rising, the economy is changing and no STEM because its racist?

That is false.

What people are trying to do is INCREASE diversity in STEM. They want more women and more minorities working in tech and the sciences. Do you see that as an existential threat to the field? I sure hope not.

 

[vanceen]

That is false.

What people are trying to do is INCREASE diversity in STEM. They want more women and more minorities working in tech and the sciences. Do you see that as an existential threat to the field? I sure hope not.

Increasing the diversity in STEM is a very fine idea, and would do the world good.

But I'm far from convinced that increased diversity in STEM is all that people are talking about. If that's the only goal, why not say so instead of describing science as part of the system of oppression of non-whites, as I've seen multiple places? Why the rhetoric about "deconstructing" science and doing it all over again from a non-European perspective? Why the claim, as we've seen on this thread that science is inherently biased against various groups?

Is this a bit like "defund the police"? When people reacted to to that, the response was often, "You fool, 'defund' doesn't mean 'defund', it means something else!"

 

[eohrnberger]

Nope.

I, along with thousands of others, have seen the BD robots in action.

In fact, you've got it completely backwards. A couple of CGI jockeys were inspired by the Boston Dynamics videos to make a fake one, and it took a huge effort. E.g. moving cameras were exceptionally difficult. You can also tell that the Corridor Crew's CGI has much more fluid motion than the real BD robot.

This stuff is real. It won't be long before Amazon uses them to replace more human workers, too.

May they never network with AI! (SkyNet)
If they do, I see a dystopian future.

The dystopian future would include armies of 10k + such foot soldiers in titanium and Kevlar being on active Military duty.
Or far worse: Deployed on the home front.

 

[MrWonka]

Shutting down STEM is basically science denial. My opinion is that if such a movement is left unchallenged, CRT will (as I believe it's purpose is to) destroy the current culture

Did you seriously just link to a Joe Rogan YouTube interview? Go to bed dude.

 

[bluesmoke]

I agree with most of that. I think you will find that our number symbols are, in fact, Indian in origin. They are called Arabic numerals because Arab cultures transmitted them into Europe. (The concept of "zero" also came from India.)

Very sensible, but then you throw in "...STEM translates into curricula as 'white, white, white'." I don't see how you get that. The principles of mathematics and science are universal, they aren't "white". You state "bias is inevitable"; I don't think that's an established fact, but even if it were, bias isn't always applicable. 2+2=4 for every human ever born, no matter who formulated the notation.

The STEM field of employment is over represented by whites and males, for various reasons, but the stats would indicate disparate impact, thus an indication of racial disparity only rectified by diversity, admittedly not an easy task nor a much agreed upon strategy of any kind. Math and science are not of what is a body of knowledge affected, once had, by race at all. But programs designed that dictate who will be a part of such programs, especially in employment, are decided my people whom are disproportionately white and male.
Diversity in STEM: What is it, why does it matter, and how do we increase it? | California Sea Grant (ucsd.edu)

 

[vanceen]

The STEM field of employment is over represented by whites and males, for various reasons, but the stats would indicate disparate impact, thus an indication of racial disparity only rectified by diversity, admittedly not an easy task nor a much agreed upon strategy of any kind. Math and science are not of what is a body of knowledge affected, once had, by race at all. But programs designed that dictate who will be a part of such programs, especially in employment, are decided my people whom are disproportionately white and male.
Diversity in STEM: What is it, why does it matter, and how do we increase it? | California Sea Grant (ucsd.edu)

Fair point. If there is bias in STEM hiring and promotion it should absolutely be ending. And the best indicator of that would be a degree of diversity that reflects the population.

But that is not at all what the OP was talking about. There is a view that STEM is inherently Euro-centric and biased toward whites in its subject matter. I've come across this many times. And it's simply nuts.

EDIT: And I would add, your first post on this thread (the second post in the thread) certainly sounds as if you take an anti-science stance.

 

[Underestimated]

Did you seriously just link to a Joe Rogan YouTube interview? Go to bed dude.

Because hearing what people who are not Rogan isn't valid why?

 

[bluesmoke]

hardly, as anything labeled as racist nowadays appears to have 2 choices associated with going forward: get rid of it , or modify it beyond recognition.

So, you won't/can't answer the question " Did I say to get rid of what you describe as the value of STEM? " I did not say "No STEM", as you implied, did I? Or, is that NOT what you meant to imply?

 

[Hypothetical]

So, you won't/can't answer the question " Did I say to get rid of what you describe as the value of STEM? " I did not say "No STEM", as you implied, did I? Or, is that NOT what you meant to imply?

to me its obvious,... what way is there to preserve the VALUE of STEM without STEM? it's a weird question. no I cannot answer it, perhaps you can.

 

[bluesmoke]

Fair point. If there is bias in STEM hiring and promotion it should absolutely be ending. And the best indicator of that would be a degree of diversity that reflects the population.

But that is not at all what the OP was talking about. There is a view that STEM is inherently Euro-centric and biased toward whites in its subject matter. I've come across this many times. And it's simply nuts.

EDIT: And I would add, your first post on this thread (the second post in the thread) certainly sounds as if you take an anti-science stance.

Please quote exactly what I said that "...sounds as if you take an anti-science stance" and why.

 

[bluesmoke]

to me its obvious,... what way is there to preserve the VALUE of STEM without STEM? it's a weird question. no I cannot answer it, perhaps you can.

I'm not saying to get rid of the technical content of science, technology, engineering and mathematics. I'm saying the structure of the programs should be devised by more diversified groups and seek to reflect greater diversity in the programs themselves, in those hired for such positions.

 

[Hypothetical]

I'm not saying to get rid of the technical content of science, technology, engineering and mathematics. I'm saying the structure of the programs should be devised by more diversified groups and seek to reflect greater diversity in the programs themselves, in those hired for such positions.

STEM Is based in fact, physics and universal laws of reality, I am not sure how you go about diversifying that... anyone who steels themselves to learn such in depth knowledge can achieve great things through STEM.

if you can build a better robot or AI then you can build a better robot or AI

 

[Aunt Antifa]

UC Berkeley supports #shutdownSTEM and Black Lives Matter

Berkeley was one of the last higher learning hold outs to not adopt a full Critical Race Theory policy. That has changed. Don't know what CRT is? When you hear the word "equity" by government, that's a part of CRT.

I know what you're thinking. Look chicken little telling everyone the sky is falling. I'm stating it's mainstream. If you work at a medium sized business to corporate sized job? You've had CRT training. You're in the military, you've had CRT training. You're kids at college, they've been drowned in it. You're kids in K-12, they're just starting to get it. Art, Music, Shakespeare, Science, Math, these are all dominated by whites and therefore racist in origin and concept.

Now the focus is that science, math and specifically STEM (Link to what is STEM) are inherently racist and should be removed. This discussion with Bert Weinstein, an evolutionary biologist who was cancelled and labeled racist by students at Evergreen College discusses why cancelling STEM is a bad idea. His argument is the way to uplift any social minority groups is shown to be with education and knowledge, yet the direct opposite is being done.



Shutting down STEM is basically science denial. My opinion is that if such a movement is left unchallenged, CRT will (as I believe it's purpose is to) destroy the current culture in a revolution similar to one's we've seen through history in Russia and China. That cultural revolution is necessary step for a new political system to develop and take power. <see Russia 1928-1932, see China 1966-1976>. Isn't that the point though? It's not really about racial issues, CRT as a cultural revolution is a red herring to bring about a new political order. The illogical and absurdism that math and STEM are racists because sociologically white people created them isn't the end game, it's the removal of a capitalist system in favor of a different one.

Don’t know what CRT is? Lemme give ya a youtube to Joe Rogan...

 

[Aunt Antifa]

STEM Is based in fact, physics and universal laws of reality, I am not sure how you go about diversifying that... anyone who steels themselves to learn such in depth knowledge can achieve great things through STEM.

Which is why it’s vital that all communities have access to these programs.

 

[Hypothetical]

Which is why it’s vital that all communities have access to these programs.

do some communities NOT have access to these programs?