Creationism dismissed as 'a kind of paganism' by Vatican's astronomer (1 Viewer)

[danarhea]

Vatican astronomer, Guy Consolmagno, has called the idea of creationism a form of paganism, because it supports the idea of "nature gods", who were responsible for natural events. When you read the article, keep in mind the quotes from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who blame natural disasters which occur in the US on "sinners". Not only is such talk is an abomination unto God, but the idea of creationism itself is heresy.

Article is here.

 

[tryreading]

Vatican astronomer, Guy Consolmagno, has called the idea of creationism a form of paganism, because it supports the idea of "nature gods", who were responsible for natural events. When you read the article, keep in mind the quotes from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who blame natural disasters which occur in the US on "sinners". Not only is such talk is an abomination unto God, but the idea of creationism itself is heresy.

Article is here.

This man is the type who would want to learn a thing, even if the process or the answer has turned others away from their God.

If ignorance is recommended on a subject by someone, a person should question the motive. But if a person learns all he can without avoiding potiential ingrained belief system questions, and still worships God, that person is a true believer.

 

[Binary_Digit]

He also said in the article that the Pope is not infallible, and furthering that idea has been a "PR disaster." I like him!

 

[MSgt]

I believe evolution and creationism can co-exist and does. As science progresses, and the smallest particles are discovered and the vastness and movements of the universe are exposed, it becomes more and more apparent that there is a higher power at hand. There are too many coincidences, perfect forces, and specific details at work for there not have been some sort of design.

Dismissing creationism to solely embrace science is as ignorant as divorcing oneself from science for the complete blind adherence to religion.

 

[Binary_Digit]

I agree Gunny. In the beginning, God said "BANG!"

 

[MSgt]

I agree Gunny. In the beginning, God said "BANG!"

"The Big Bang Theory" is an impressive theory and has a wealth of evidence to prove correct.

DNA and the smallest fragment of an atom prove many things also.

The question that Science will never be able answer is where did it all come from? Why is it that out of all the beings on this planet, humans are the only ones with the capacity to create and envision? Why is it that out of all the beings on this planet, humans are the only ones that live outside of nature? I like to think that anchient man described creationism and the universe in the manner in which made sense to him (we are still doing this today and perhaps I am now). Science has dispelled many things from those ancheint beliefs. However, science has paved the way to recognize a higher power of sorts. Something created that Bang and the material within. Something could have used DNA and the atom as recipes for creation and thus evolution was set in motion. "Something" could be God.

Both can exist.

 

[jamesrage]

Vatican astronomer, Guy Consolmagno, has called the idea of creationism a form of paganism,

Now that is what I call the pot calling the kettle black.Their list of patron saints looks similar to that of the Greek and Roman gods and they pray to them.Clearly that is paganism itself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patron_saint
# Agatha - nurses, bellmaking
# Albertus Magnus - natural scientists
# Alexius - nurses
# Amand - bartenders, Boy Scouts, brewers, innkeepers, merchants, vine growers, vintners
# Ambrose of Milan - bee keepers, wax melters and refiners
# Andrew the Apostle - fish dealers, fishermen
# Anne - equestrians, stablemen
# Anthony the Great - swineherds, motorists
# Anthony of Padua - lost items, the poor, and travelers
# Apollonia - dentists
# Arnoldus - brewers
# Augustine of Hippo - brewers, printers, and theologians
# Barbara - architects, builders and miners, artillerymen and arsenals, prisoners
# Bartholomew the Apostle - tanners, leatherworkers and curriers
# Basil the Great - hospital administrators
# Benedict of Nursia - farms, farmers, farmhands, ranches, husbandry
# Benno - fishermen
# Bernadette of Lourdes - shepherds, shepherdesses
# Bernard of Clairvaux - bee keepers, wax melters and refiners
# Bernard of Venice - farms, farmers, farmhands, ranches, husbandry
# Blaise - veterinarians, wool combers town criers and weavers
# Botulph - farms, farmers, farmhands, ranches, husbandry
# Brigid of Ireland - dairy farms and workers, healers
# Camillus of Lellis - hospitals and hospital workers, nurses
# Catherine of Alexandria - tanners, nurses
# Catherine of Siena - nursing services, nurses
# Cecilia - musicians
# Clare of Assisi - television
# Cosmas - doctors, pharmacists, surgeons
# Germaine Cousin - shepherdesses
# Christopher - travellers
# Crispin - tanners, shoemakers, cobblers, leatherworkers and curriers
# Cuthbert - shepherds
# Cuthman - shepherds (and Steyning)
# Damian - doctors, pharmacists, surgeons
# Saint Dominic - astronomers, astronomy, falsely accused people, scientists
# Dominic of Silos - shepherds
# Drogo - shepherds
# Dymphna - mental health professionals, therapists
# Edward the Confessor - Kings
# Eligius - veterinarians, farriers, farms, farmers, farmhands, ranches, husbandry, harness makers, goldsmiths
# Elisabeth of Hungary - hospitals, nursing services
# Elmo - Fireworkers (Pyrotechnicians), Those who work with explosives, Steeplejacks, chimneysweeps, those who work at great heights, sailors
# Ephrem the Syrian — spiritual directors and spiritual leaders.
# Erasmus of Formiae (Saint Elmo) - sailors
# Erhard of Regensburg - hospitals
# Eustachius - hunters
# Fiacre - Taxi-drivers, venereal disease sufferers, horticulturists, hemorrhoid sufferers
# Foillan - dentists, surgeons
# Francis de Sales - writers/authors
# Francis of Assisi - animal welfare and rights organizations and workers; Italy; environment
# Saint Gabriel of Our Lady of Sorrows - students, seminarians, clerics, youth
# Gemma Galgani - pharmacists
# George - Agricultural workers; archers; armourers; Boy Scouts; butchers; cavalry; chivalry; Crusaders; equestrians; farms; farmhands; farmers; field hands; field workers; herpes; horsemen; horses; husbandry; husbandmen; knights; lepers; leprosy; Order of the Garter; Palestinian Christians; plague; ranches; riders; saddle makers; saddlers; scouts, sheep; shepherds; skin diseases; skin rashes; soldiers; syphilis; Teutonic Knights;
# Rocco Gonzalez - Native American traditions
# Rene Goupil - anesthesiologists
# Hubertus - hunters, furriers
# Isidore the Farmer - farms, farmers, farmhands, ranches, husbandry
# Isidore of Sevilla - computer scientists, programmers, programming
# St. Jadwiga of Poland - Queens, united Europe
# James the Greater - veterinarians, equestrians, furriers, tanners, pharmacists
# James the Lesser - pharmacists
# Januarius - blood banks
# Saint Jane Frances de Chantal - forgotten people, loss of parents, parents separated from children, widows, girls
# Jerome - librarians, translators
# St. Joan of Arc - Girl Guides, soldiers

 

[danarhea]

I believe evolution and creationism can co-exist and does. As science progresses, and the smallest particles are discovered and the vastness and movements of the universe are exposed, it becomes more and more apparent that there is a higher power at hand. There are too many coincidences, perfect forces, and specific details at work for there not have been some sort of design.

Dismissing creationism to solely embrace science is as ignorant as divorcing oneself from science for the complete blind adherence to religion.

The problem I see with the politicizing of creationism is the following. Those who support it say they believe in Jesus Christ. However, the way they have framed creationism denies Christ, in that they attribute our existence to a God of nature. On one hand, they call Christ our savior, and on the other hand, our existence as a product of creation by some higher form, without coming out and attributing this directly to God, and Christ is not even mentioned, although in the Bible, Christ refers to himself as alpha and omega - The beginning and the end.

Now my question is this: If a group of people can come up with a theory that is unable to be proven by scientific experiment (which in itself, isnt even a theory because it cannot be verified one way or the other through observation and experimentation), then why are they not willing to take the next step and declare that God himself created us, and Christ is the crux of our existence? I would call that cowardice in their beliefs. The Bible also says that the Antichrist would worship the "God of Forces", just as Antiochus Epiphanes did.

Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I believe in Christ? Yes. But that is based on faith, not science. Faith itself trancends science, as I believe God intended. To take God and attempt to prove his existence with scientific hocus pocus, along with a lot of what ifs, goes against God himself because, as Christ said, God's world is not of this world at all. To attempt to explain God's existence as something of this world IS heresy.

Science and religion will never mix for this very reason. God can literally move mountains without explanation if he wishes. What would creationists chalk this up to? Science could never explain it. Faith does, because faith is NOT science, but of God's world. Faith needs no mumbo jumbo pseudo scientific explanations, and all that creationism does is to not only pollute science, but the word of God as well.

Read in II Peter about the last days, when people would preach doctrines of devils. They are doing it now.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Moved to appropriate forum

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

"The Big Bang Theory" is an impressive theory and has a wealth of evidence to prove correct.

DNA and the smallest fragment of an atom prove many things also.

The question that Science will never be able answer is where did it all come from? Why is it that out of all the beings on this planet, humans are the only ones with the capacity to create and envision? Why is it that out of all the beings on this planet, humans are the only ones that live outside of nature? I like to think that anchient man described creationism and the universe in the manner in which made sense to him (we are still doing this today and perhaps I am now). Science has dispelled many things from those ancheint beliefs. However, science has paved the way to recognize a higher power of sorts. Something created that Bang and the material within. Something could have used DNA and the atom as recipes for creation and thus evolution was set in motion. "Something" could be God.

Both can exist.

ummm, WRONG!!!!!

Your confusing evolution with science. Science can co-exist with creationism, its common knowledge. However, saying that evolution can co-exist with creationism is like saying Satan can co-exist with God. They can't! One has to overwhelm the other.

 

[Sir_Alec]

ummm, WRONG!!!!!

Your confusing evolution with science. Science can co-exist with creationism, its common knowledge. However, saying that evolution can co-exist with creationism is like saying Satan can co-exist with God. They can't! One has to overwhelm the other.

ummm, WRONG!!!!!

Creationism can coexist with evolution. For example: God creates the universe with the properties of evolution. Life evolves on earth. See how simple that is. Not everything is black and white dude. It is possible to say god created life and life evolved by itself!

 

[Donkey1499]

Vatican astronomer, Guy Consolmagno, has called the idea of creationism a form of paganism, because it supports the idea of "nature gods", who were responsible for natural events. When you read the article, keep in mind the quotes from Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, who blame natural disasters which occur in the US on "sinners". Not only is such talk is an abomination unto God, but the idea of creationism itself is heresy.

Article is here.

It's official, I've lost all faith and respect for the Catholic leadership, though not the church itself (meaning the original rules and morals designed and carried on by the Disciples of Jesus). First, the new Pope says to not take the Bible literally, then this other pinhead says that Creationism=Paganism. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE? It says in Genesis that God CREATED THE UNIVERSE IN SIX DAYS. How is that a pagan belief? Oh yeah, the Pope use to be a Nazi and the Bible was written by Jews, so therefore it's not credible. I can't believe this. NAZIS rule the Catholic church. Armageddon is closer than I thought.

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

It is possible to say god created life and life evolved by itself!

Oh, certainly, its possible to say it, its even possible to beleive it. But is it true? and the answer is No.

"If the Genesis accounts of Creation, the Fall, the origin of nations, the Flood and the Tower of Babel — the first 11 chapters — are not historical, although they are written as historical narrative and understood by Jesus to be so, what other unfashionable parts of the Bible do you discard?

The biblical account of creation in Genesis seems very specific with six days of creative activity, each having an evening and a morning. According to the evolutionary sequence, the biblical order of creation is all wrong. Do you think God should have inspired an account more in keeping with the evolutionary order, the truth as you see it, if indeed He did use evolution or followed the evolutionary pattern in creating everything?

The Bible says 'God is good' and in Genesis 1:31 God described his just-finished creation as 'very good'. How do you understand the goodness of God if He used evolution, 'nature red in tooth and claw', to 'create' everything?

According to the evolutionist's (and progressive creationist's) understanding, fossils (which show death, disease and bloodshed) were formed before people appeared on earth. Doesn't that mean that you can't believe the Bible when it says that everything is in 'bondage to decay' because of Adam's sin (Romans 8) ? In the evolutionary view, hasn't the 'bondage to decay' always been there? And if death and suffering did not arise with Adam's sin and the resulting curse, how can Jesus' suffering and physical death pay the penalty for sin and give us eternal life, as the Bible clearly says (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15:22 — For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive)?

Dr Niles Eldredge, well-known evolutionist, said: 'Darwin ... taught us that we can understand life's history in purely naturalistic terms, without recourse to the supernatural or divine.'1 Is it not philosophically inconsistent to marry God (theism) with evolution (naturalism)?If God 'created' using evolution which makes Him unnecessary, how can God's 'eternal power and divine nature' be 'clearly seen' in creation, as Romans 1:20 says?

Evolution has no purpose, no direction, no goal. The God of the Bible is all about purpose. How do you reconcile the purposelessness of evolution with the purposes of God? What does God have to do in an evolutionary world? Is not God an 'unnecessary hypothesis'?

If God created over millions of years involving death, the existing earth is not ruined by sin, but is as it always has been—as God supposedly intended it to be. So why then should He want to destroy it and create a new heavens and earth (2 Peter 3 and other places)?"

References: Niles Elderidge

OWNED!


This is called theistic evolution which has been destroyed by evolutionists and creationists everywhere. Its nothing but a myth and it is foolish to believe in it.

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

It's official, I've lost all faith and respect for the Catholic leadership, though not the church itself (meaning the original rules and morals designed and carried on by the Disciples of Jesus). First, the new Pope says to not take the Bible literally, then this other pinhead says that Creationism=Paganism. WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON HERE? It says in Genesis that God CREATED THE UNIVERSE IN SIX DAYS. How is that a pagan belief? Oh yeah, the Pope use to be a Nazi and the Bible was written by Jews, so therefore it's not credible. I can't believe this. NAZIS rule the Catholic church. Armageddon is closer than I thought.

Don't be down! It means God will be back soon and prove all these losers wrong.

 

[tecoyah]

Don't be down! It means God will be back soon and prove all these losers wrong.

Cool, Can I get a "T" shirt

 

[Sir_Alec]

Oh, certainly, its possible to say it, its even possible to beleive it. But is it true? and the answer is No.

"If the Genesis accounts of Creation, the Fall, the origin of nations, the Flood and the Tower of Babel — the first 11 chapters — are not historical, although they are written as historical narrative and understood by Jesus to be so, what other unfashionable parts of the Bible do you discard?

The biblical account of creation in Genesis seems very specific with six days of creative activity, each having an evening and a morning. According to the evolutionary sequence, the biblical order of creation is all wrong. Do you think God should have inspired an account more in keeping with the evolutionary order, the truth as you see it, if indeed He did use evolution or followed the evolutionary pattern in creating everything?

The Bible says 'God is good' and in Genesis 1:31 God described his just-finished creation as 'very good'. How do you understand the goodness of God if He used evolution, 'nature red in tooth and claw', to 'create' everything?

According to the evolutionist's (and progressive creationist's) understanding, fossils (which show death, disease and bloodshed) were formed before people appeared on earth. Doesn't that mean that you can't believe the Bible when it says that everything is in 'bondage to decay' because of Adam's sin (Romans 8) ? In the evolutionary view, hasn't the 'bondage to decay' always been there? And if death and suffering did not arise with Adam's sin and the resulting curse, how can Jesus' suffering and physical death pay the penalty for sin and give us eternal life, as the Bible clearly says (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15:22 — For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all shall be made alive)?

Dr Niles Eldredge, well-known evolutionist, said: 'Darwin ... taught us that we can understand life's history in purely naturalistic terms, without recourse to the supernatural or divine.'1 Is it not philosophically inconsistent to marry God (theism) with evolution (naturalism)?If God 'created' using evolution which makes Him unnecessary, how can God's 'eternal power and divine nature' be 'clearly seen' in creation, as Romans 1:20 says?

Evolution has no purpose, no direction, no goal. The God of the Bible is all about purpose. How do you reconcile the purposelessness of evolution with the purposes of God? What does God have to do in an evolutionary world? Is not God an 'unnecessary hypothesis'?

If God created over millions of years involving death, the existing earth is not ruined by sin, but is as it always has been—as God supposedly intended it to be. So why then should He want to destroy it and create a new heavens and earth (2 Peter 3 and other places)?"

References: Niles Elderidge

OWNED!


This is called theistic evolution which has been destroyed by evolutionists and creationists everywhere. Its nothing but a myth and it is foolish to believe in it.

Wow you are a fool...

You don't have to believe in the christian god you arogant idiot. I never intended to say you were supposed to believe in Genesis and evolution. I'm saying you can believe in a god and that he created evolution. It's not that hard. Like I said 'Not everything is black and white'. I can think that god made the universe as we know it and that after creating live god let it evolve on it's own in the universe only to grow more large, vast, and powerful. So much for no purpose.

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

Wow you are a fool...

You don't have to believe in the christian god you arogant idiot. I never intended to say you were supposed to believe in Genesis and evolution. I'm saying you can believe in a god and that he created evolution. It's not that hard. Like I said 'Not everything is black and white'. I can think that god made the universe as we know it and that after creating live god let it evolve on it's own in the universe only to grow more large, vast, and powerful. So much for no purpose.

ohhhhhh......
so, what god do you believe in? Zeus? Ra? Buddha?

 

[Sir_Alec]

ohhhhhh......
so, what god do you believe in? Zeus? Ra? Buddha?

I can believe in whatever god I want. You don't have the answer any better than me when it comes to the right god. You are an arrogant fool.

 

[tecoyah]

ohhhhhh......
so, what god do you believe in? Zeus? Ra? Buddha?

Uh....Buddha was not a God....Just Sayin'.....

But the arrogant thing is spot on

 

[My_name_is_not_Larry]

Uh....Buddha was not a God....Just Sayin'.....

But the arrogant thing is spot on

X(

when you say you believe in God, a guy can't help but think christian.

 

[Donkey1499]

Don't be down! It means God will be back soon and prove all these losers wrong.

I can't wait until Jesus opens up a can of whoop *** and puts all these morons in their places.

 

[Sir_Alec]

X(

when you say you believe in God, a guy can't help but think christian.

So what. That doesn't mean I am a christian even if I did believe in a god, which is just a word after all.

 

[tryreading]

X(

when you say you believe in God, a guy can't help but think christian.

When a guy says God, there's a two out of three chance you shouldn't think Christian:

Christianity - 2.1 billion (33%)

Islam - 1.3 billion (21%)
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Athiest - 1.1 billion (16%)
Hinduism - 900 million (14%)
Chinese Traditional religion - 394 million (6%)
Buddhism - 376 million (6%)
African Traditional & Diasporic primal-indigenous - 400 million (6%)

http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

 

[StillPhil]

I believe evolution and creationism can co-exist and does. As science progresses, and the smallest particles are discovered and the vastness and movements of the universe are exposed, it becomes more and more apparent that there is a higher power at hand. There are too many coincidences, perfect forces, and specific details at work for there not have been some sort of design.

Dismissing creationism to solely embrace science is as ignorant as divorcing oneself from science for the complete blind adherence to religion.

I agree with this.

It seems perfectly plausible that a God created the processes that we see through scientific studies everyday.

I think the thing that irks me the most though, is when somebody hears me say that, then they automatically assume I'm referring to the "Christian" God, and they use my words against me, saying that its "proof" that the Christian God is the one true god.

I use the term "God" generically, totally independent of any preconceived notion of a deity.

 

[StillPhil]

X(

when you say you believe in God, a guy can't help but think christian.

HA! See what I mean?