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Court-ordered voting site set for Nevada tribe in US suit

danarhea

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Indians have had a very long history of being denied to vote. Up until 1970, the methods were very blatant, where some states would allow Indians to vote in national elections but not state and local elections, despite the Stanley Supreme Court decision in 1927, which affirmed the right for Indians to vote. Since then, more subtle methods have been used by many states to discriminate against American Indians. For example, here in Texas, one of the reasons the voter ID law was shot down was because a gun license counted as ID, while a valid tribal ID did not. A Federal court has now intervened in another case, where Nevada would not put polling places on reservations, thus making it harder for Indians to vote because of very long distances to the polling places. Good job by the courts. In case nobody knows, American Indians are also US citizens, and should be treated like American citizens.

Article is here.

Article about the court decision a week ago is here.

NOTE: Don't give me any crap about states rights here. States don't have the right to discriminate.
 

I have mixed feelings about this. It is not so very different than a foreign national casting ballots.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
So you don't want tribal people voting? Am I reading you right?
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I think its complicated to try to reconcile tribal sovereignty with the notion that the citizens of such tribes should be allowed to vote in State elections - and I'm not convinced that they can be.
 
Napoleon said:
I have mixed feelings about this. It is not so very different than a foreign national casting ballots.
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Actually, it is very different. American Indians are American citizens.
 
danarhea said:
Actually, it is very different. American Indians are American citizens.
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Ohioans are also American citizens. Should we be allowed to cast ballots on issues in the State of Colorado?
 
Napoleon said:
Ohioans are also American citizens. Should we be allowed to cast ballots on issues in the State of Colorado?
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Misleading at best. A reservation in a state has some limited sovereignty, as they are treated a lot like a state, and are not subject to income taxes if they work at a casino or any other business located ON the reservation.

However, the vast majority of Indians work OFF the reservation, and pay state taxes on money received for that work. Taxation without representation is illegal. The courts determined that a very long time ago.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
How is that even remotely relevant to this situation?
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Its relevant because we do not allow people to cast ballots in States where they are not residents and the citizens of sovereign indian nations are not residents of the State. Why should we make exception?
 
Napoleon said:
Its relevant because we do not allow people to cast ballots in States where they are not residents and the citizens of sovereign indian nations are not residents of the State.
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El wrongo, O illegal alien breath. :mrgreen:

http://www.kumeyaay.info/sovereignty/Tribal_Rights_Handbook.pdf

To wit:

"Individual Indians pay all the taxes that other citizens do, except for earnings from their own allotments or from income earned on reservation. Tribal income is exempt from federal tax. In general,the courts have ruled against the imposition by states of taxes in Indian country. Tribes may impose taxes on tribal and non-tribal residents on reservations."

1) Indians pay state taxes for the work they do off reservation. Therefore, they are allowed to vote for representation in their state.

2) By treaty, Indians are granted dual citizenship. They are members of their tribe, and also members of the United States and the states in which they live.

3) According to the Constitution, all treaties are law.

Let me also add that Herbert Hoover's Vice President, Charlos Curtis, was also an American Indian.
 
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Claiming that a resident of a sovereign indian nation is a resident of the United States is a contradiction of terms and I think there are Equal Protection questions to be raised about the interpretation and application of those treaties.
 
Napoleon said:
Claiming that a resident of a sovereign indian nation is a resident of the United States is a contradiction of terms and I think there are Equal Protection questions to be raised about the interpretation and application of those treaties.
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Again, by treaty, Indians are members of their tribe, as well as citizens of their state, and of the USA. According to the Constitution, treaties are the law of the land.

Let me give you yet another link. This one of from the Justice Department.

https://www.justice.gov/otj/about-native-americans

From the link:

"American Indians and Alaska Natives have the same right to vote as all United States citizens. American Indians and Alaska Natives vote in state and local elections, as well as in tribal elections. Just as state, federal, and local governments have the sovereign right to establish voter eligibility criteria; each Tribe has the right to decide its voter eligibility criteria for tribal elections."

Let me add something else here...... ^ White man speak with forked tongue. :mrgreen:
 

Being a citizen of the United States does not make anyone a resident of a State. You cannot claim that the land on which you live is both separate and part of the United States. I do not believe they should have the same right to vote - particularly those who live and work on sovereign indian land and pay no State or Federal taxes and are not subject to the same regulations and laws as other citizens.
 

The vast majority of Indians don't work on Indian land. They work OFF reservation, which means they pay state and local taxes, as well as employment taxes. Again, taxation without representation is illegal.
 
danarhea said:
The vast majority of Indians don't work on Indian land. They work OFF reservation, which means they pay state and local taxes, as well as employment taxes. Again, taxation without representation is illegal.
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And creating a special class of citizen with no tax liability that can cross over a literal line in the sand and be immune from all US law is unconstitutional. IMO, they can choose to be a part of the United States or not to be a part of the United States but should not be allowed to occupy a nebulous space in the middle with special treatment that other American citizens are not entitled to.
 

Complain to your Congressman if you don't like it, but it's the law of the land. And I, for one, have no complaints. And, BTW, it IS Constitutional. Treaties ARE the law of the land. You need to brush up those parts of the Constitution you don't happen to like.

And, once again, you are lying, even after you have been shown the facts presented in not one, but 2 links. The vast majority of Indians DO pay state and local taxes, as well as employment taxes. Ever hear of no taxation without representation? We went to war over that. But I guess that doesn't apply to some people in your book, does it?
 
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You know what, I was hoping for a serious conversation about the issue and you are obviously not up to the task. Why bother posting this stuff on a debate forum if all you want to do is pontificate and falsely accuse people of lying when they present a different point of view? I happen to believe that we should not make exceptions to Equal Protection to appease the conquered.
 
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I have shown you TWO links, as well as quoted the Constitution, backing up my argument. You have shown me absolutely nothing to back up the point you are trying to make. It is you who is not having a serious conversation, unless what you say must be true because you said so. That dog don't hunt, and I have already proven it false.
 

No, you haven't. You posted links refuting your own strawman.
 
Napoleon said:
No, you haven't. You posted links refuting your own strawman.
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What I gave as evidence is

1) the Constitution. All treaties are law of the land. Here's the appropriate passage:


Strike 1

I have posted the law, as it exists, which, according to treaty, is law:

https://www.justice.gov/otj/about-native-americans

Strike 2

And, I have posted the link to Indian Rights and Responsibilities

http://www.kumeyaay.info/sovereignty/Tribal_Rights_Handbook.pdf

Strike 3 - You are out.

On the other hand, you keep repeating the lie that Indians pay no taxes. Once again, the vast majority of Indians work off reservation, and pay state and local taxes, as well as employment taxes. That goes straight to the issue of taxation without representation.

Do you even know what a straw man is? If so, then please explain why all the information I posted is a straw man...... I await, because I am sure your response is going to keep me laughing for hours.
 

If you can't form a mature response then don't respond to my posts.
 
Napoleon said:
If you can't form a mature response then don't respond to my posts.
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I said in my last post that your response would keep me laughing for hours. Thank you so much for making that wish come true. :mrgreen:

Oh, BTW, got a link to that. LMAO.

Finally, this is MY thread. I didn't respond to your post until you responded to mine with your nonsense. And now you act all butthurt over it? LOL.
 
danarhea said:
I said in my last post that your response would keep me laughing for hours. Thank you so much for making that wish come true. :mrgreen:

Oh, BTW, got a link to that. LMAO.
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Thanks for being a d***k instead of offering intelligent discourse.
 
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