Court kicks DWI case, sets new standard

[Tucker Case]

Never stopped me. I just get ridiculous with it and that usually causes a great gnashing of teeth in "them" whilst bringing a hearty chuckle to "us". :lol:

I considered doing that, but the hawks game is coming on soon. :lol:

 

[The Giant Noodle]

When I got written a DUI, before I ever even went to my first court date, I got a flier from the police department in the mail that started with "You drove drunk and here's what it's going to cost you". The list came up to about $12,000.00 in fines, fees, classes, impound costs (yes, they impounded my truck immediately and even though I wasn't convicted of the DUI, I still paid over $1300.00 to the impound for the time they kept my truck).

And the fact that they sent it before I even had my first court date was like a taunt saying "there's nothing you can do about this so just plead guilty".

**** the DUI laws.

I 100% agree. The DUI laws ARE bull****. And the people that are in the NHTSA are the same people that run MADD!
Its all about money. DUI is an industry made to make money.

Did you know that you are more likely to die of a asprin overdose than get hurt by in alcohol related crash? I hung out with cops for quite a few years of my life and there are cops in my family. Almost every single one of them drives DRUNK 2x a month or more.

Here is a judege that did it: Judge accepts "full responsibility" for driving drunk, which is code for dropped charges and a private reprimand from judges who didn't get caught http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/06/judge_reprimand_1.html

 

[Caine]

I 100% agree. The DUI laws ARE bull****. And the people that are in the NHTSA are the same people that run MADD!
Its all about money. DUI is an industry made to make money.

The DWI laws are NOT bull****. Through strong enforcement of said laws one CAN reduce alcohol involved crashes in a given area. Ive not only seen it but played a vital role in said reduction. DWI laws are made to protect the average traveler of public highways who didn't ask to be plowed over and killed by some moron jackass who decided that going out and having a good time was more important than his or everyone elses's lives.

That said, The money making crap is only a factor because of this liberal idea that it is the justice system's responsibility to reform people who have substance abuse problems. Thus as a part of probation judges order people to obtain a substance abuse assessment from an oganization that also provides the follow up "treatment" for the problems found in said "assessment". Which virtually means that they are always going to assess you with some sort of abuse problem in order to make you pay for more treatment. The liberals and politicians decided that we need to "help" these people. Some of the time this stuff helps a little, but as I have learned with people in my own family, you are NOT going to quit doing something you want to do because someone tells you that its bad for you, or that you have a problem. Substance abuse addiction rehabilitation does not work for you unless you WANT it to work.

Did you know that you are more likely to die of a asprin overdose than get hurt by in alcohol related crash? I hung out with cops for quite a few years of my life and there are cops in my family. Almost every single one of them drives DRUNK 2x a month or more.

So? That makes them ****ing idiots risking a career that helps support their family just because they want to have a good time. ****ing morons who shouldn't wear a badge if you ask me.

Here is a judege that did it: Judge accepts "full responsibility" for driving drunk, which is code for dropped charges and a private reprimand from judges who didn't get caught Judge reprimanded for 2009 drunken driving arrest - Local News Updates - MetroDesk - The Boston Globe

So? ****ing moron again. On this time he is a corrupt moron. I don't know much about the way judges are picked up there, but here we elect judges. This would be a major reason why a judge should not be elected. If the judge is re-elected, its the fault of the voters and no one else.

 

[Groucho]

A fine ruling. Bravo to the New Mexico Supreme Court.

Juts for the record, this has been the standard in Pennsylvania forever as far as I can tell!

 

[The Giant Noodle]

For DUI related injuries, that's anyone on the road.

If they want to prevent those costs in the first place, make the interlock mandatory on all vehicles. Just set the cut-off limit for whatever the legal limit is.

DUI can be prevented at a very, very high rate.

If they are willing to try and make sure everyone has their seatbelt on while driving the car, it's not a very big stretch to do something that ensures that everyone is under the legal limit while driving the car.

That is EXACTLY correct! If the govt things its such a HUUUUGE problem (which it is NOT) then install interlock devices in EVERY vehicle!

OHHHH!!!! But WAIT..... that would effect cops, judges, politicians :roll: How the hell are THEY going to get home from their 4x a week drinking at the bar fun???

 

[Caine]

That is EXACTLY correct! If the govt things its such a HUUUUGE problem (which it is NOT) then install interlock devices in EVERY vehicle!

OHHHH!!!! But WAIT..... that would effect cops, judges, politicians :roll: How the hell are THEY going to get home from their 4x a week drinking at the bar fun???

:roll:

You sound like a moath foaming imbecile that cant be taken seriously.

 

[RightinNYC]

I have no idea what the law is in NY, but up where I'm from it's absolutely standard practice to get wasted at one of the two bars in town, walk across the street to the parking lot, and sleep it off inside your car before driving home the following morning. The idea that someone could consider that "drunk driving" blows my mind.

****, on cold nights the cops offer you a ride home, so long as you're not a renowned douche-about-town.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

:roll:

You sound like a moath foaming imbecile that cant be taken seriously.

Thanks for the personal attack :2wave:
Im guessing you really have no contact with the DUI industry? Never been caught? Dont know how the system works? Never went into the bars that politicians and judges and cops hang out? Never hung around with a folks from the police department after their shifts? Dont follow DUI stories? Havent done research on NHTSA? Or MADD?
Yeah I thought so. :roll:

 

[Caine]

Thanks for the personal attack :2wave:
Im guessing you really have no contact with the DUI industry? Never been caught? Dont know how the system works? Never went into the bars that politicians and judges and cops hang out? Never hung around with a folks from the police department after their shifts? Dont follow DUI stories? Havent done research on NHTSA? Or MADD?
Yeah I thought so. :roll:

ROFL.
Ive personally arrested over 200 DWI offenders in the past 4 years.
So much for your assumptions......
:roll:

The reason why interlock devices are not required in all vehicles is simple, it would provide too much of a problem for standard run of the mill commuting, delaying anyone from driving a vehicle for 3-6 minutes. And the devices require expensive maintenance on a regular basis. Its just too intrusive.

 

[Panache]

I have a funny story about DUIs actually. The guy who taught me to breath fire liked to use Bacardi 151 as fuel. To breath fire, he puts the fuel in his mouth and spits it out in an atomized spray which ignites to make a gout of flame. Anyway, we finished a show one night and he started heading home, when apparently he got pulled over. The officer smelled the rum and had him take a Breathalyzer test. He tried to explain the situation, but the officer just wasn't buying it and gave him a DUI.

I wasn't actually there when he got the DUI, but he was stone cold sober when he got into his car that night. How the police officer didn't figure out that something weird was going on when this guy who clearly showed no overt signs of being intoxicated had a BAC of .98 is beyond me. No, that's not a typo. 0.98 for his BAC. He should have been dead at that point.

 

[Caine]

I have a funny story about DUIs actually. The guy who taught me to breath fire liked to use Bacardi 151 as fuel. To breath fire, he puts the fuel in his mouth and spits it out in an atomized spray which ignites to make a gout of flame. Anyway, we finished a show one night and he started heading home, when apparently he got pulled over. The officer smelled the rum and had him take a Breathalyzer test. He tried to explain the situation, but the officer just wasn't buying it and gave him a DUI.

I wasn't actually there when he got the DUI, but he was stone cold sober when he got into his car that night. How the police officer didn't figure out that something weird was going on when this guy who clearly showed no overt signs of being intoxicated had a BAC of .98 is beyond me. No, that's not a typo. 0.98 for his BAC. He should have been dead at that point.

Uhh... Cool story bro.... Even if the story doesn't seem very believable.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

ROFL.
Ive personally arrested over 200 DWI offenders in the past 4 years.
So much for your assumptions......
:roll:

The reason why interlock devices are not required in all vehicles is simple, it would provide too much of a problem for standard run of the mill commuting, delaying anyone from driving a vehicle for 3-6 minutes. And the devices require expensive maintenance on a regular basis. Its just too intrusive.

Oh then you should know that police have the highest alcoholism rate out of any profession!
They also have the highest divorce rate too but the last I heard of that fact was about 10 years ago.

Too intrusive???? But its soooooo important to save lives! You would give up 3-6 minutes to save a life wouldnt you? :roll: According to the alcohol evaluation classes and awareness classes that I was forced to take and pay over $3000 for (plus I had to take a freakin cab there sometimes because my freakin license was suspended) you are a selfish ignorant & irresponsible person that just doesnt care about those lives that could be saved. Oh my, did you ever go to one of those meetings where someone talks about how their son or daughter or best friend died because THEY or someone else had a few drinks at the bar!?!?!?!? No?????????? Yeah. See if you do that... even one drink.... youre almost a murderer. :roll:

As for the maintenance, its actually calibration of the units and sending in the results every 2 months. Also the 3-6 minutes you speak of are only for units that have to be warmed up and THAT amount of time you mention is only between 40F to 0F. So again... you arent thinking of the other technology thats out there.
Oh! And Toyota has technology along with other auto makers to sample your skin perspiration when you touch the steering wheel. This technology makes it possible for all new vehicles to have ZERO tollerance if need be. And thats what MADD wants.

 

[Caine]

Oh then you should know that police have the highest alcoholism rate out of any profession!
They also have the highest divorce rate too but the last I heard of that fact was about 10 years ago.

WTF does this have to do with the topic?
Paranoid deflection much? So what? I don't drink, 2 ounces and I get a ****ing headache so I quit. So what personal problems other cops have is on them.
Besides, I don't trust studies like that. Drunkard bankers go undetected far more easily than drunkard cops.....

Too intrusive???? But its soooooo important to save lives! You would give up 3-6 minutes to save a life wouldnt you? :roll: According to the alcohol evaluation classes and awareness classes that I was forced to take and pay over $3000 for (plus I had to take a freakin cab there sometimes because my freakin license was suspended) you are a selfish ignorant & irresponsible person that just doesnt care about those lives that could be saved. Oh my, did you ever go to one of those meetings where someone talks about how their son or daughter or best friend died because THEY or someone else had a few drinks at the bar!?!?!?!? No?????????? Yeah. See if you do that... even one drink.... youre almost a murderer. :roll:

You just sound like an angry schmo who got busted for a DWI and are now lashing out. blah blah blah.

As for the maintenance, its actually calibration of the units and sending in the results every 2 months. Also the 3-6 minutes you speak of are only for units that have to be warmed up and THAT amount of time you mention is only between 40F to 0F. So again... you arent thinking of the other technology thats out there.
Oh! And Toyota has technology along with other auto makers to sample your skin perspiration when you touch the steering wheel. This technology makes it possible for all new vehicles to have ZERO tollerance if need be. And thats what MADD wants.

Yes, maybe you want to go back and actually READ this thread. Ive already discussed the alternate ideas that are being developed, however, these methods are NOT called "interlock" devices. You were specifically talking about interlock devices, yet your example about skin perspiration is NOT an interlock device.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

You just sound like an angry schmo who got busted for a DWI and are now lashing out. blah blah blah.



Yes, maybe you want to go back and actually READ this thread. Ive already discussed the alternate ideas that are being developed, however, these methods are NOT called "interlock" devices. You were specifically talking about interlock devices, yet your example about skin perspiration is NOT an interlock device.

Youre damn right Im angry when texting while driving is said to be as bad as driving with a BAC of .15 but for getting caught while texting you get a $50 fine here in the Chicago area. If you get a DUI, you cant drive for a year, it goes on your record as getting arrested AND you have to pay about $15,000!!!!!!!! Plus you will probably lose your job because you cant drive there ANNNNND you have to see a probation officer every month like you are some thug or pedophile!
Its bull****. Its an industry. Its a money maker. Its hypocritical crap.

You are DAMN right Im mad!! People are more likely to die of an accidental asprin overdose than of a DUI. Compared to something like over 100,000 deaths by doctor / nurse malpractice each year. Deaths where the driver was legally intoxicated in the US annually? About 5,000!!! getMADD.com BAC, .08, madd, lies, crash, statistics, ridl, alcohol, use, abuse, drinking, drunk, (All vehicles involved & all persons involved in a TRUE alcohol related accident.) Alcohol Use and Abuse: How to "Lie" with Statistics

Did you know that if someone gets into a severe or fatal accident and there is alcohol in the car, thats regarded as a alcohol-related accident? If the passenger is intoxicated thats counted as a alcohol-related accident? Research the NHTSA.

Look I want TRUE offenders to be caught and punished. But also let the punishment fit the crime. The punishments FAR exceed this crime. Drug dealers get off with less. Hell... people with a history of domestic violence get off with less. (most times)

EDIT: oh yeah... the toyota alcohol sensing steering wheel will not allow you to start the engine if it detects booze. I call that an interlock. http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/03/toyotas-sweat-sensing-steering-wheel-will-thwart-drunk-drivers/
But that is just symantecs. You win on that..... maybe.

 

[Orion]

When I was 15, my mom and I were hit by a drunk driver on the busiest highway in Toronto. We were on the way home from a wake, no less. It was about 10pm and the roads were quite clear. We were traveling about 100km/hr (that's 60mph for you Americans). The guy's truck side-swiped us, pushing us into the guard rail of an overpass. Then his vehicle sped up, turning into the front of ours, forming a t-bone; then his truck flipped on its side and hooked into our front bumper so that we were staring at the truck's underside as we flew down the highway. There were sparks flying into our windshield. Somehow my mother maintained control, and to this day we have no idea how. Eventually his truck detached and rolled down the highway... I don't know how many times because we also rolled once, thankfully in the direction that took us away from flying off the overpass.

We miraculously walked away with only some minor whiplash and bruises, and not to mention some fear-induced, paralyzing shock. I have never been so thankful for a seat belt in my life. I remember walking up to the guy's truck while the cops were talking to my mom, and the side of it was like a polished mirror, the door handle had been sanded down by the highway completely and it was perfectly smooth.

When their vehicle stopped rolling, the guy and his buddy got out and there were no witnesses to see who was in the driver's seat. They both had blood alcohol twice beyond the legal limit. They both claimed that the other person was driving and stuck to that story. Because the cops couldn't prove who was at the wheel, they got off.

Canada has MADD too, and all of the other do-gooder organizations, but they've become nothing more than commercial whores for profit. I can just see their fat asses sucking up all the money as they continue to pump out their commercials and sappy campaigns.

I also think DUI laws are broken, but from a different perspective. The system has made it all about money while not really doing anything to clamp down on the root of the problem. I mean, how was a bar able to let these drunken guys get into a vehicle and drive off? I'm all for personal responsibility and I admit that I'm far from unbiased when it comes to this, but people who drive drunk are effed up and I support them being cracked down on. I don't support the money racketeering, but I do support the punishments.

Suspend their licenses, and revoke them forever if necessary. Charge all people in the car who knowingly allow a drunk person to drive. I am fully in favor of accessory to DUI laws when it comes to in-vehicle occurrences. The people in the car may not value their lives at the hands of a drunk driver, but they cannot make that choice for other people on the road.

I know a lot of you have suffered nuisances because of DUI laws, but that's all they are: inconveniences. Getting into a major accident because of some drunk ****, all while you are just minding your own business driving home, is probably one of the most unpleasant things you could ever experience.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

Suspend their licenses, and revoke them forever if necessary. Charge all people in the car who knowingly allow a drunk person to drive. I am fully in favor of accessory to DUI laws when it comes to in-vehicle occurrences. The people in the car may not value their lives at the hands of a drunk driver, but they cannot make that choice for other people on the road.

I know a lot of you have suffered nuisances because of DUI laws, but that's all they are: inconveniences. Getting into a major accident because of some drunk ****, all while you are just minding your own business driving home, is probably one of the most unpleasant things you could ever experience.

No one should be charged for being a freakin passenger of a car. No matter what.
And INCONVENIENCES???? You dont know what youre talking about. You want to take away the freedoms of citizens because of your accident??? Those are VERY ignorant ideas your messing with. Thats how the Constitution get ripped to shreds because of people like you that want all these additional laws. Its bullcrap. Back in the 1600s you would be the one chanting to burn the witch! Because she made a kick ass tea that people thought was witchcraft. :roll: To hell with peoples freedoms! Lets give texters the SAME punishment as a DUI because they are impaired the same amount!
Hell if you were ever in a accident because someone looked down to change the channel on their radio.... thats like ddriving BLIND!!!! Hell youre driving a loaded gun and youre not even looking at the road!!!! Revoke their license FOREVER!!!! WHY??? Orion got into a accident with them and almost died.

 

[jallman]

Suspend their licenses, and revoke them forever if necessary. Charge all people in the car who knowingly allow a drunk person to drive. I am fully in favor of accessory to DUI laws when it comes to in-vehicle occurrences. The people in the car may not value their lives at the hands of a drunk driver, but they cannot make that choice for other people on the road.

I know a lot of you have suffered nuisances because of DUI laws, but that's all they are: inconveniences. Getting into a major accident because of some drunk ****, all while you are just minding your own business driving home, is probably one of the most unpleasant things you could ever experience.

Here's a better idea: charge and punish people who actually do others harm rather than charging and punishing anyone who might be a "potential" harm.

 

[Caine]

EDIT: oh yeah... the toyota alcohol sensing steering wheel will not allow you to start the engine if it detects booze. I call that an interlock. Toyota's sweat-sensing steering wheel will thwart drunk drivers — Autoblog
But that is just symantecs. You win on that..... maybe.

Its about not being too intrusive.

 

[Caine]

Here's a better idea: charge and punish people who actually do others harm rather than charging and punishing anyone who might be a "potential" harm.

So we shouldn't take any preventative measures?

If it weren't for preventative measures.... we would have ALOT more DWI related crashes.

Hell, since working in my division and being one of like 2 Officers who actually bother with making DWI arrests, Ive seen a large reduction in these types of crashes, to include the DWI single car hit and run, in the last 4 years Ive been here.

Actually enforcing the law is the only way to drive the number of occurrences down.

 

[The Giant Noodle]

Here's a better idea: charge and punish people who actually do others harm rather than charging and punishing anyone who might be a "potential" harm.

Although I agree with you..... I dont agree with you. Yes... someone who is REALLY drunk and doesnt hit anything.... no crime really. I mean there are laws established already that cover accidents arent there? Also reckless homicide.

I strongly feel that DUI/DWI PUNISHMENTS are insane and actually foolish. Look..... like I said there are laws on the books ALREADY that cover what happens when you are in an accident and there are ALREADY determinations made on what % of the accident is each drivers fault. So now they made MORE laws in CASE you get into an accident. :roll: Meh. I dont like that AT ALL! Alas, since we want to PREVENT accidents there SHOULD be laws in place. BUUUUUUUUT the punishment should NOT be to utterly destroy the offenders bank account and possible job and way to earn income by destroying their driving ability either. NOT for 1st offenders. Plus after 4-5 years the damn thing should be off your driving record.

Bottom line... penalties are 1000x too excessive for DUI/DWI. Plus .08 is bullcrap. Statistically there is no driving irregularity from .14 to .08.
They need to get the REAL drunk drivers. NOT the folks who had a few beers / drinks.

ANNNND.... if they still want to nab the .08 to .15 folks, then make it a seperate punishment. Like $500 or even $1000. Better YET... make it a % of someones annual income. $1000 is someone that makes $100,000 is a sneeze. $1000 to someone that makes $28K is a MAJOR fine. Hell if the Department of Human Services can determine if someone can or can not get benefits.... a court appointed department can provide a FAIR % of fines across the board.

As you all can see I am EXTREMELY intelligent AND humble! :lol:

 

[rivrrat]

Here's a better idea: charge and punish people who actually do others harm rather than charging and punishing anyone who might be a "potential" harm.

Well... the point is to discourage the behavior that can kill other people. If the thought of accidentally killing people doesn't thwart people from driving drunk, maybe the thought of losing one's license, paying out the ass in fines, having to go to classes, etc, etc, WILL give them motivation not to drive drunk.

Are the rules a bit strict? Absolutely. Such as in your case - and other cases like in the OP where the person was simply IN a car drunk. Are the punishments a bit excessive? Without a doubt.

I'm not sure what the right answer is, but there must be a happy medium.

 

[Caine]

Well... the point is to discourage the behavior that can kill other people. If the thought of accidentally killing people doesn't thwart people from driving drunk, maybe the thought of losing one's license, paying out the ass in fines, having to go to classes, etc, etc, WILL give them motivation not to drive drunk.

Are the rules a bit strict? Absolutely. Such as in your case - and other cases like in the OP where the person was simply IN a car drunk. Are the punishments a bit excessive? Without a doubt.

I'm not sure what the right answer is, but there must be a happy medium.

Its buried in here somewhere and I'll mention it again.

We need to get rid of this liberal idea that we need to treat anyone with a substance abuse problem via the courts. These people do not want our help, and the services used to assess their problems are the same services used to treat their problems, thus they have a motivation to assess someone as needing treatment so they can benefit from the costs to the 'abuser' for their treatment.

Fines, Community Service, Loss of License (and given limited provisions to drive under certain qualifying conditions) are all fine and dandy to me.
Forcing someone to go through treatment however, is ridiculous because most people could give a rats ass less about said treatment.

Answered a call at a house last night where the guy's method of transportation was a "liquor-cycle" (DWI folks sometimes use Mopeds because they are not held to the same legal standards for use on public roads as automobiles). This is a guy who has had a DWI and has went through all his "treatment". Anyways, there was a "residency" issue with him and his girlfriend, she said she lived there, he said she didn't. He let me look around for evidence of her stuff in the home. As I was looking around, in every corner of that damned apartment was a beer can, liquor bottle, wine bottle, or in the closet where he kept his trash, there were boxes and boxes of empty beer containers.

Moral of the Story: Government forced "treatment" doesn't work for **** unless the user actually wants to change.

 

[rivrrat]

Its buried in here somewhere and I'll mention it again.

We need to get rid of this liberal idea that we need to treat anyone with a substance abuse problem via the courts. These people do not want our help, and the services used to assess their problems are the same services used to treat their problems, thus they have a motivation to assess someone as needing treatment so they can benefit from the costs to the 'abuser' for their treatment.

Fines, Community Service, Loss of License (and given limited provisions to drive under certain qualifying conditions) are all fine and dandy to me.
Forcing someone to go through treatment however, is ridiculous because most people could give a rats ass less about said treatment.

Answered a call at a house last night where the guy's method of transportation was a "liquor-cycle" (DWI folks sometimes use Mopeds because they are not held to the same legal standards for use on public roads as automobiles). This is a guy who has had a DWI and has went through all his "treatment". Anyways, there was a "residency" issue with him and his girlfriend, she said she lived there, he said she didn't. He let me look around for evidence of her stuff in the home. As I was looking around, in every corner of that damned apartment was a beer can, liquor bottle, wine bottle, or in the closet where he kept his trash, there were boxes and boxes of empty beer containers.

Moral of the Story: Government forced "treatment" doesn't work for **** unless the user actually wants to change.

Oh I don't disagree at all. Not to mention the fact that just because someone drove drunk doesn't mean they have a substance abuse problem that needs "treatment" to begin with.

 

[Caine]

Oh I don't disagree at all. Not to mention the fact that just because someone drove drunk doesn't mean they have a substance abuse problem that needs "treatment" to begin with.

Exactly.
If we cut out the ridiculous treatment portion of some people's sentences. You are left with about 500 in fines (350 or so for the FINE, 130 or so for court costs). Another 300 or so for community service fee, and loss of license. Most DWI offenders get unsupervised probation, contrary to what the great noodle would have one believe, and don't have to check in with a probation officer.

 

[Panache]

Uhh... Cool story bro.... Even if the story doesn't seem very believable.

Well, it was told to me by a crazy fire breathing carnie. None of the stories that crazy fire breathing carnies tell you are going to seem very believable, even the ones that are true. I wasn't there though, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he made it up.