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Court: Detainees can't challenge cases

Hatuey

Hatuey

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Court: Detainees can't challenge cases - Yahoo! News

WASHINGTON - Guantanamo Bay detainees may not challenge their detention in U.S. courts, a federal appeals court said Tuesday in a ruling upholding a key provision of a law at the center of President Bush's anti-terrorism plan.

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The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled 2-1 that civilian courts no longer have the authority to consider whether the military is illegally holding foreigners.
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I dont get it...if they can't challenge their detention how are they supposed to get out? :|
 
Goobieman said:
They get out like any other POW gets out.
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But they are not POWs. If they were they'd be afforded all the rights the 2nd-3rd Geneva conventions give to POWs.
 
Hatuey said:
But they are not POWs. If they were they'd be afforded all the rights the 2nd-3rd Geneva conventions give to POWs.
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The Geneva conventions do not cover these people, but...
Which of those rights arent they afforded?
And if they arent POWs, what are they?
 
Goobieman said:
The Geneva conventions do not cover these people, but...
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Actually there was an entire Geneva convention dedicated to the treatment of POWs(if thats what you're still calling them).

Which of those rights arent they afforded?
And if they arent POWs, what are they?
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See for yourself.

Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War

(Article 5): "Should any doubt arise as to whether persons, having committed a belligerent act..." is a prisoner of war "...such persons shall enjoy the protection of the present Convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal."
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Article 84

A prisoner of war shall be tried only by a military court, unless the existing laws of the Detaining Power expressly permit the civil courts to try a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power in respect of the particular offence alleged to have been committed by the prisoner of war.

In no circumstances whatever shall a prisoner of war be tried by a court of any kind which does not offer the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality as generally recognized, and, in particular, the procedure of which does not afford the accused the rights and means of defence provided for in Article 105.
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Article 103

Judicial investigations relating to a prisoner of war shall be conducted as rapidly as circumstances permit and so that his trial shall take place as soon as possible. A prisoner of war shall not be confined while awaiting trial unless a member of the armed forces of the Detaining Power would be so confined if he were accused of a similar offence, or if it is essential to do so in the interests of national security. In no circumstances shall this confinement exceed three months.

Any period spent by a prisoner of war in confinement awaiting trial shall be deducted from any sentence of imprisonment passed upon him and taken into account in fixing any penalty.

The provisions of Articles 97 and 98 of this Chapter shall apply to a prisoner of war whilst in confinement awaiting trial.
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Hatuey said:
Actually there was an entire Geneva convention dedicated to the treatment of POWs(if thats what you're still calling them).
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I believe I said that the Geneva conventions do not cover these people.
Read article 4 sec A & B. Tell me how these conditions apply to these people.
If they dont apply, then they are not prisoners of war, and as such the GC doesnt apply to them.

Article 5:
Should any doubt arise as to whether persons...belong to any of the categories enumerated in Article 4
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There is no doubt that the people do NOT belong to any of the catrgories in article 4.

And this nullifies your references to articles 84 and 101.

But, to address those points:

Article 84, under Chapter III: Penal and Disciplenary Sanctions refers to actions taken by POWs while in captivity, not for the circumstances of their capture -- that is, how they should be dealt with if they kill another prisoner, or whatnot. It doesnt have anything to do with a trial by a military court to determine their status as a POW in and of itself -- and so unless you can show that one of them committed some sort of crime while in captivity and were not dealt with according to the GC, you have no point here.

This applies equally to your reference to article 103.

So, I ask again: What rights under the GC are they not afforded?
 
Hatuey said:
1) Guantanamo Bay detainees may not challenge their detention in U.S. courts

2) I dont get it...if they can't challenge their detention how are they supposed to get out? :|
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1) :applaud

2) By being cleared of any involvement. That is how some of them have already been released.
 
This is good news and a great victory for thr Bush Administration..........
 
Doremus Jessup said:
They'll get out when the "war" is over.
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And since this is a "war" on a tactic, it will never be over, so the US can lock people away in secret dungeons forever without trials or ever having to prove them guilty of anything.

Damn, that makes me proud to be an American. The shining city on the hill and beacon of freedom for all mankind.
 
Iriemon said:
And since this is a "war" on a tactic, it will never be over, so the US can lock people away in secret dungeons forever without trials or ever having to prove them guilty of anything.

Damn, that makes me proud to be an American. The shining city on the hill and beacon of freedom for all mankind.
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So we should not capture them anymore since you don't want us to hold them?
 
Iriemon said:
Unworthy of response.
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so why did you? so why capture them if you just want to release them?

By the way still waiting for you to reply in kind as to you employment experience, you know what you ask of me but then ran away from when asked of you.
 
Iriemon said:
And since this is a "war" on a tactic, it will never be over, so the US can lock people away in secret dungeons forever without trials or ever having to prove them guilty of anything.

Damn, that makes me proud to be an American. The shining city on the hill and beacon of freedom for all mankind.
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You ****ing liberals make me sick.......All this ****ing compassion for maniacs that want to kill us and very little for the guys who are fighting and dying to give you the right to express your ****ing whacked out left wing views.........

These guys are enemy combatents.they have no ****ing rights........The ones that can prove they don't have American blood on their hands are being released........

Their are documented cases of these nut jobs being released and they head right back to the battlefield..............

What part of that do you not understand??????
 
Navy Pride said:
You ****ing liberals make me sick.......All this ****ing compassion for maniacs that want to kill us and very little for the guys who are fighting and dying to give you the right to express your ****ing whacked out left wing views.........

These guys are enemy combatents.they have no ****ing rights........The ones that can prove they don't have American blood on their hands are being released........

Their are documented cases of these nut jobs being released and they head right back to the battlefield..............

What part of that do you not understand??????
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This from the guy who tried to say Obama might be *****ing sleeper cell agent based on his middle name. :roll:
 
There is nothing in this world so important that we give up what made this country a great nation. It's just not worth it.
 
Navy Pride said:
The ones that can prove they don't have American blood on their hands are being released......
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Guilty until proven innocent? And you call yourself an American?
 
Iriemon said:
And since this is a "war" on a tactic, it will never be over, so the US can lock people away in secret dungeons forever without trials or ever having to prove them guilty of anything.
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And since this country doesn't lock anyone away in dungeons, and certainly not forever...unless they're guilty...there's no problem with this.

Liberals need to grasp that terrorism is not a criminal matter, it's a military one. You handle military enemies differently...the way Bush is handling these terrorists. Democrats "fought" terrorism their way, with rhetoric, arrest warrants, and ACLU rules for nearly a decade and all it produced was 9/11.

BTW...if Bush was the Disney Villain you people impotently try to paint him as, we wouldn't have released so many of these detainees already, upon clearing them of involvement.
 
Originally posted by aquapub:
And since this country doesn't lock anyone away in dungeons, and certainly not forever...unless they're guilty...there's no problem with this.

Liberals need to grasp that terrorism is not a criminal matter, it's a military one. You handle military enemies differently...the way Bush is handling these terrorists. Democrats "fought" terrorism their way, with rhetoric, arrest warrants, and ACLU rules for nearly a decade and all it produced was 9/11.

BTW...if Bush was the Disney Villain you people impotently try to paint him as, we wouldn't have released so many of these detainees already, upon clearing them of involvement.
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You're in serious need of re-Americanization training. And "your" rhetoric, is very un-American! We are supposed to be "innocent until PROVEN guilty". To have "due process of law". And as a personal comment, anyone who believes someone doesn't have the basic right to know (or question) why they are deprived of their freedom, is less than garbage in my book.

BTW, some of those people (142 total so far) had to spend over two years being incarcerated (and sometimes tortured), then released with no charges ever being filed. If you support that, you're a pretty disgusting individual.

If someone is convicted of terrorism, then lock'em up and toss the salad! But treating someone as though they are a terrorist before they are convicted, well, that's what the Nazi's did. I kinda like to think were not that bad........yet!
 
Navy Pride said:
You ****ing liberals make me sick.......All this ****ing compassion for maniacs that want to kill us and very little for the guys who are fighting and dying to give you the right to express your ****ing whacked out left wing views.........

These guys are enemy combatents.they have no ****ing rights........The ones that can prove they don't have American blood on their hands are being released........

Their are documented cases of these nut jobs being released and they head right back to the battlefield..............

What part of that do you not understand??????
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And ****ing conservatives like you make *me* sick. You act like you are so patriotic with your pictures of soldiers and aircraft carriers and you don't have a ****ing clue what American stands for. Our forefathers fought and died for the principles of rule of law and that all men are created with inalienable rights - and foremost among them is the right that the Govt can't throw people in jail without the Govt proving they were guilty in a trial.

Reagan called this country a shining city on the hill to mankind and a beacon of freedom. And it was and should be. But this Administration and your lot that pretends to be so patriotic has thrown those principles in the sewer and put America on the same level as two bit dictatorships were people are pulled off the streets and locked away in jail for the rest of their lives. You make me ****ing sick and the Bush Administration and people like you are an insult to America. I am ashamed to be an American these days thanks to people like you and what this Govt has done to her and sullied the proud things she stands for.

To you patriotism means cheering for a piece of cloth and the soldiers and aircraft carriers that fly it, regardless of what they being instructed to do is right or wrong. It is not aircraft carriers or fighter jets that made America the shining city on the hill.

What part of that do you not ****ing understand????????
 
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I used to be a proud American, now I'm an ashamed one!
 
TheNextEra said:
Guilty until proven innocent? And you call yourself an American?
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There's never, ever, a question of guilt or innocence when people are captured on the battlefield, because when you're fighting on the batlefield, you aren't committing a crime.

So, your statement here refelcts nothing but ignorance -- willful or otherwise.
 
Goobieman said:
There's never, ever, a question of guilt or innocence when people are captured on the battlefield, because when you're fighting on the batlefield, you aren't committing a crime.

So, your statement here refelcts nothing but ignorance -- willful or otherwise.
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Its ignorant to suggest these people well all detained 'on the battlefield'. Most were taken from their homes or handed in to the US by foreign forces (predominantly Pakistani security services) and of course there was the Egyptian abducted from the battlefield of the streets of Milan :roll:

Fact is the US knows little, if anything, about most of the persons it detains. Just because somebody says someone is an AQ member that doesn't automatically make it so.
 
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