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Costs Go Up, Insurers Drop Out, and Consumers Get Screwed

Oh code, thanks for the laughs. It’s always funny when conservatives accuse me of exactly what they do. First, see how you avoid discussing the “2500 saving” lie you posted. Run con run. Second, I wasn’t discussing republicans not voting for Obamacare nor was I discussing what amendments made it out of committees in 2009 . I was discussing President Obama’s universal health care plan died in congress so he compromised on the republican plan of mandates. Here’s a politifact article on what I was actually discussing not what you wish I was discussing

Among other features, the Chafee bill included:
• An individual mandate;
• Creation of purchasing pools;
• Standardized benefits;
• Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;
• A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.

Is the ACA the GOP health care plan from 1993? | PunditFact

Can you believe republicans were sponsoring bills as late as 2009 that included mandates? Shocking right. The thing you were instructed to hate the most (and did so quite obediently) was a republican idea and they supported them for 20 years. And code, your daily mail “editorial” is designed to give the impression Obamacare does not reduce the deficit. Its why it doesn’t say it. It relies on your gullibility and obedience to fill in the blanks. Try to focus. We’re discussing the dishonest "2500 savings" narrative you obediently believe and the fact republicans ‘invented’ and supported mandates for 20 years and President Obama compromised on them.

to be fair, Chaffee was hardly a Republican in effect. however, yeah, the ACA is the Heritage Foundation alternative to Hillarycare. that's part of why it sucks eggs. should have enacted single payer instead.
 
to be fair, Chaffee was hardly a Republican in effect. however, yeah, the ACA is the Heritage Foundation alternative to Hillarycare. that's part of why it sucks eggs. should have enacted single payer instead.

Single payer being, of course, the federal government, that great institution that still didn't figure out how to run the VA hospitals. You mean that single payer?
 
Single payer being, of course, the federal government, that great institution that still didn't figure out how to run the VA hospitals. You mean that single payer?

sort of like Canada and the rest of the first world who wouldn't trade health care systems with you even at gunpoint.
 
sort of like Canada and the rest of the first world who wouldn't trade health care systems with you even at gunpoint.

Canada where the wait time to see a specialist is:

In its annual report, “Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada,” the Fraser Institute said the median wait time in 2013 hit 18.2 weeks, three days longer than in 2012. Twenty years ago, the average wait time for treatment in Canada was 9.3 weeks.

You mean that Canada or some other Canada?

In the meantime, a month ago, my wait for a cardiologist was 2 days. No, it was not an emergency, so don't try that route. It was a routine follow up to see how I was doing. The emergency took place 5 years ago.
 
wow, its hard to believe you're having such problems with such a simple process. And three years into it even. Which one is you?

Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

51 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 15 closed in last 12 months


Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Michigan Review - Insurance Services in Detroit, MI - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Eastern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula

If you confront an opposing view honestly, you'll get better results. I said nothing about BBB, I ultimately complained to my Senator and Congressman as stated in my post. I don't know anyone personally who's complained to the BBB since the 80's, and my complaint wasn't solely about them anyway. But if you do want to find complaints about BCBS, just google "blue cross complaints" and you'll see plenty.
 
oh fenton, it wasn't Obamacare. It was the non stop lies from the right about Obamacare and the ignorance of conservatives belieiving those lies. Just read Code's posts if you don't understand.

"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period!"

If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period!"

"No one will take it away."

-Barrack Hussein Obama, June 15, 2009.

Why do you continue to think this was not said when it is a recorded statement?
 
Oh code, thanks for the laughs. It’s always funny when conservatives accuse me of exactly what they do. First, see how you avoid discussing the “2500 saving” lie you posted. Run con run. Second, I wasn’t discussing republicans not voting for Obamacare nor was I discussing what amendments made it out of committees in 2009 . I was discussing President Obama’s universal health care plan died in congress so he compromised on the republican plan of mandates. Here’s a politifact article on what I was actually discussing not what you wish I was discussing

Among other features, the Chafee bill included:
• An individual mandate;
• Creation of purchasing pools;
• Standardized benefits;
• Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;
• A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.

Is the ACA the GOP health care plan from 1993? | PunditFact

Can you believe republicans were sponsoring bills as late as 2009 that included mandates? Shocking right. The thing you were instructed to hate the most (and did so quite obediently) was a republican idea and they supported them for 20 years. And code, your daily mail “editorial” is designed to give the impression Obamacare does not reduce the deficit. Its why it doesn’t say it. It relies on your gullibility and obedience to fill in the blanks. Try to focus. We’re discussing the dishonest "2500 savings" narrative you obediently believe and the fact republicans ‘invented’ and supported mandates for 20 years and President Obama compromised on them.

I see...

Obama was NOT lying about the ACA when he lied about this. He was lying about a different, fictitious and imaginary thing that he never produced. Got it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so

If only the Democrats could have found him so he could have explained to them what he was talking about.

They ignored his wise plan that was to REDUCE the costs by $2500/year and instead chose a program that INCREASED the costs by $2500/year.

Can you please link to the complaint and outrage from Obama that his lap dogs had passed the WRONG ACA?
 
If you confront an opposing view honestly, you'll get better results. I said nothing about BBB, I ultimately complained to my Senator and Congressman as stated in my post. I don't know anyone personally who's complained to the BBB since the 80's, and my complaint wasn't solely about them anyway. But if you do want to find complaints about BCBS, just google "blue cross complaints" and you'll see plenty.

er uh JC, I did google it. I posted the link. I found 51 complaints. 24 were about billing. And yes I do realize you did not mention BBB. I'm not disputing your completely unverifiable anecdotal story. I just cant believe you made 30 phone calls, 10 appeals (whatever that is) and contacted your congressman and senator and it didn’t contact the BBB. I just figured somebody as smart as you and as determined as your completely unverifiable anecdotal story shows didn't think of the BBB.
 
ooooooo LD, let me stop you right there. You saw death panels. You saw a govt takeover of health care.You saw nobody signing up. You saw nobody paying when they did sign up. You saw 50-100 million people losing insurance. You saw a death spiral. You saw Obamacare adding to the deficit. You saw Obamacare destroying the economy and killing jobs. yep, you 'saw' a lot of things that simply didn't happen. At some point you should stop trusting your own opinion in these matters.

And the amazing thing is that you (and all conservatives apparently) ignore the non stop lies that have literally blown up in your face and happily and obediently believe the next lie. I have found that conservatives are simply incapable of admitting even the most basic facts concerning Obamacare. Prove me wrong LD. Start your next post with the following sentence:

"Sure Obamacare has covered 20 million people but .........."



You should have stopped after "oooo". You are taking the absolute worst and most insane predictions about ACA and implying they were mainstream.

What I said at the time was 1) it would end up being more than twice as costly as the president said and 2)Insurance companies would collaborate rather than compete and 3) in the end there would still be many without health care.

Each of those things has happened.

What Obama's comedy writers said was "you can keep your plan," "you can keep your doctor", "the average consumer would save approximately $2,500. The comedy writers also said everyone would have care. None of those things has happened, the average cost of health care has RISEN $2,500, there are still 10 million plus with no coverage and the real cost increases start shortly after Obama has left office.

So, when it comes to believing? Obama and supporters aren't in the arena.

History will show it was the stupidest idea ever foisted on the American people
 
to be fair, Chaffee was hardly a Republican in effect. however, yeah, the ACA is the Heritage Foundation alternative to Hillarycare. that's part of why it sucks eggs. should have enacted single payer instead.

well to be fair, the beauty of the republican plan of mandates is it lowers the cost to the govt. The reason given to have people have "skin in the game" so they wont overuse the service. The democratic congress couldn't even get the public option, how do you think we were going to enact single payer?
 
You should have stopped after "oooo". You are taking the absolute worst and most insane predictions about ACA and implying they were mainstream.

oooo FL, I'm going to have to stop you right there. Most of the list was common currency with conservatives. You could maybe make a case even conservatives didn't fall for the 50-100 million will lose insurance but LD actually started a thread about it. So that one was really for his benefit. And the most ridiculous one was death panels. over 50% of conservatives (and I'm being conservative in my estimate) believed the death panel lies

Poll: Four in 10 believe in Obama healthcare law ‘death panels’ | TheHill

And FL, the "twice as costly" is just another conservative lie. And fyi, you got the "Obamacare cost doubles" narrative as a replacement to the original "Obamacare only lowers the deficit because its 10 years of revenue and only 6 years of benefits". They were a little short sighted with that narrative. Let me give a nice thread about the original lie

http://www.debatepolitics.com/obama...use-its-10-yrs-revenue-vs-6-yrs-benefits.html
 
oooo FL, I'm going to have to stop you right there. Most of the list was common currency with conservatives. You could maybe make a case even conservatives didn't fall for the 50-100 million will lose insurance but LD actually started a thread about it. So that one was really for his benefit. And the most ridiculous one was death panels. over 50% of conservatives (and I'm being conservative in my estimate) believed the death panel lies

Poll: Four in 10 believe in Obama healthcare law ‘death panels’ | TheHill

And FL, the "twice as costly" is just another conservative lie. And fyi, you got the "Obamacare cost doubles" narrative as a replacement to the original "Obamacare only lowers the deficit because its 10 years of revenue and only 6 years of benefits". They were a little short sighted with that narrative. Let me give a nice thread about the original lie

http://www.debatepolitics.com/obama...use-its-10-yrs-revenue-vs-6-yrs-benefits.html



You know I don't believe you right?

So why the big propaganda bull****?

The ACA is the worst health care scheme on the planet.

You have a nice day now...

Oh....in case you didn't notice, actually you did not notice, I am NOT a conservative. I was espousing liberal concepts all my 67 years. It is possible that a true liberal can see through the propaganda your system maintains is liberal, but in the end the ACA just pours money into the pockets of bankers and insurers.
 
Canada where the wait time to see a specialist is:

In its annual report, “Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada,” the Fraser Institute said the median wait time in 2013 hit 18.2 weeks, three days longer than in 2012. Twenty years ago, the average wait time for treatment in Canada was 9.3 weeks.

You mean that Canada or some other Canada?

In the meantime, a month ago, my wait for a cardiologist was 2 days. No, it was not an emergency, so don't try that route. It was a routine follow up to see how I was doing. The emergency took place 5 years ago.

yeah, i've already heard the same horror stories in fifty other threads. i don't believe that the Canadian system is some horrifying death sentence, because the data doesn't support that. my hope is that we do something like that here incrementally. also,

BW - 1.jpg

and

cost_longlife75.jpg

yeah, we can definitely do better.
 
well to be fair, the beauty of the republican plan of mandates is it lowers the cost to the govt. The reason given to have people have "skin in the game" so they wont overuse the service. The democratic congress couldn't even get the public option, how do you think we were going to enact single payer?

we should have just done it. the Democrats dropped the ball on this one. in fact, it should have been enacted when Truman proposed it the first time.
 
All is proceeding as we have foreseen. In fact, we saw this coming years ago.



Three years later Obama's speech writers are yukking it up over the way they put one over on the American people with that line.

Is deceit and incompetence humorous? Apparently so in Obamaland.

For those who find themselves stuck between a federal tax mandate and an insurance market that has narrowed as significantly as its costs have skyrocketed, no is the correct answer.

So what happens when fewer and fewer insurers are available that cover less and less and cost more and more? We end up with nobody covering nothing because nobody can afford the permiums. We end up with Obamacare zeroed out, and all that's left is roughly what we had before. And no, that doesn't lead to single payer, because we still haven't overcome the shock of what single payer would cost. Our dear leaders have been too cowardly to be honest with us about what that cost would be.

How would that go? "I know 80% of you already have adequate health insurance outside of Obamacare, but we have these people here who are not covered and we want you to take a YUUUUUUGGGE hit on taxes so that we can cover them. And while we're at it, we're going to force you to accept government health care for your own health needs. How about it?"

I don't think so.

All part of the plan to move us to a single payer system. ACA was step one.
 
we should have just done it. the Democrats dropped the ball on this one. in fact, it should have been enacted when Truman proposed it the first time.

Wasn't politically feasible to just do it. Corporate America sans big pharm/big insurance want single payer government run HC, they would like nothing better than to be able to jettison the headaches and cost that go with providing HI. And because corporate america wants it, we'll eventually get it.
 
You know I don't believe you right?

So why the big propaganda bull****?

The ACA is the worst health care scheme on the planet.

You have a nice day now...

Oh....in case you didn't notice, actually you did not notice, I am NOT a conservative. I was espousing liberal concepts all my 67 years. It is possible that a true liberal can see through the propaganda your system maintains is liberal, but in the end the ACA just pours money into the pockets of bankers and insurers.

Oooo FL, let me stop you right there, I think you're responding to someone else's post by mistake because I dont see where your whining has anything to do with my post. You tried to claim the conservative narratives I posted were not "mainstream". I showed you the absolute dumbest one was clearly mainstream. So you must be responding to my post in error because the only other reason I can think of for you to avoid me shredding your silly post is not very flattering.

so just to reiterate, I showed a poll showing 4 in 10 believed in death panels.
 
"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period!"

If you like your healthcare plan, you will be able to keep your healthcare plan. Period!"

"No one will take it away."

-Barrack Hussein Obama, June 15, 2009.

Why do you continue to think this was not said when it is a recorded statement?

er uh code, where have I denied he said that. dont respond immediately. take your time.

I see...

Obama was NOT lying about the ACA when he lied about this. He was lying about a different, fictitious and imaginary thing that he never produced. Got it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o65vMUk5so

er uh Code, when I inform you that President Obama campaigned on a universal plan that would have saved 2500 dollars a year but that plan was DOA in congress so he compromised on the republican plan of mandates, what do you think showing a speech from 2008 proves exactly. dont respond immediately. take your time.
 
er uh JC, I did google it. I posted the link. I found 51 complaints. 24 were about billing. And yes I do realize you did not mention BBB. I'm not disputing your completely unverifiable anecdotal story. I just cant believe you made 30 phone calls, 10 appeals (whatever that is) and contacted your congressman and senator and it didn’t contact the BBB. I just figured somebody as smart as you and as determined as your completely unverifiable anecdotal story shows didn't think of the BBB.

What do you think would be more effective, contacting a U.S. Senator, or contacting the BBB? And would you be surprised if I showed you a letter from Debbie Stabenow concerning my case?
 
If it had been constructed to do what it was advertised to be trying to do, then it would look and act like the "Healthy Indiana Plan" which is functioning very well and does not have any of the Obamacare funding.

HIP, incidentally, did not scrap other programs, destroy the entire healthcare payment structure or require bribes and kick backs to get passed.

It also uses systems and processes managed locally within the state and avoids the flow of even more funds through the sticky fingered folks in Washington DC.

All in all, passed with no threats, managed locally, not a fiscal boondoggle, not a machine to fund the dishonest; is nothing like an Obama program.

http://www.in.gov/fssa/hip/files/HIP_Response_to_Forbes_Article.pdf

Interesting
 
er uh code, where have I denied he said that. dont respond immediately. take your time.



er uh Code, when I inform you that President Obama campaigned on a universal plan that would have saved 2500 dollars a year but that plan was DOA in congress so he compromised on the republican plan of mandates, what do you think showing a speech from 2008 proves exactly. dont respond immediately. take your time.

Compromised!

Neither you nor Obama seem to understand the meaning of that word.

I have listed below the Republicans that accepted the compromise solution offered by Obama:




That's the whole list.

Only the Sham-Wow salesman and his acolytes believe that dirt line you are laying out.

Why do you defend this.

Having any trouble finding the quote from Obama saying that the $2500 promise did not apply to the ACA during the Legislative battle to pass it over the objections ove EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN??

I would have thought you would have posted it by now. Where's that big walk to match that big talk?

Never mind. You Obama-bots are always all talk.

Any proof to show that the Sham-wow salesman wasn't hiding under the bed wetting his pants for 13 hours during the Benghazi Massacre?

I thought as long as your looking for one thing that doesn't exist, you could look for two.
 
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