Costs Go Up, Insurers Drop Out, and Consumers Get Screwed

[LowDown]

All is proceeding as we have foreseen. In fact, we saw this coming years ago.

Remember the now-infamous promise made by President Barack Obama when pushing the Affordable Care Act, better known as Obamacare? “If you like your plan,” the president repeated on dozens of occasions, “you can keep your plan.”

When millions of Americans got thrown off of their existing health-insurance plans in the fall of 2013, PolitiFact called it the Lie of the Year. Obama ended up apologizing for the lie in an interview with NBC News’ Chuck Todd in November 2013, even if he couldn’t quite bring himself to admit that it was a lie. “We weren’t as clear as we needed to be in terms of the changes that were taking place,” was as far as Obama’s contrition went.

Three years later Obama's speech writers are yukking it up over the way they put one over on the American people with that line.

Is deceit and incompetence humorous? Apparently so in Obamaland.

For those who find themselves stuck between a federal tax mandate and an insurance market that has narrowed as significantly as its costs have skyrocketed, no is the correct answer.

So what happens when fewer and fewer insurers are available that cover less and less and cost more and more? We end up with nobody covering nothing because nobody can afford the permiums. We end up with Obamacare zeroed out, and all that's left is roughly what we had before. And no, that doesn't lead to single payer, because we still haven't overcome the shock of what single payer would cost. Our dear leaders have been too cowardly to be honest with us about what that cost would be.

How would that go? "I know 80% of you already have adequate health insurance outside of Obamacare, but we have these people here who are not covered and we want you to take a YUUUUUUGGGE hit on taxes so that we can cover them. And while we're at it, we're going to force you to accept government health care for your own health needs. How about it?"

I don't think so.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The more messed up that PPACA makes things in the "private" medical care insurance market then the more likely that folks will demand a different federal government solution. Talk has already (largely) shifted from repealing PPACA to replacing PPACA - that still means federal control of all medical care insurance will remain the law of the land.

 

[joG]

The more messed up that PPACA makes things in the "private" medical care insurance market then the more likely that folks will demand a different federal government solution. Talk has already (largely) shifted from repealing PPACA to replacing PPACA - that still means federal control of all medical care insurance will remain the law of the land.

It is really very sad to go for such a misbegotten system, just because the political elite couldn't manage to inform the population, how an economically rational system would work.

 

[Vern]

All is proceeding as we have foreseen. In fact, we saw this coming years ago.

ooooooo LD, let me stop you right there. You saw death panels. You saw a govt takeover of health care.You saw nobody signing up. You saw nobody paying when they did sign up. You saw 50-100 million people losing insurance. You saw a death spiral. You saw Obamacare adding to the deficit. You saw Obamacare destroying the economy and killing jobs. yep, you 'saw' a lot of things that simply didn't happen. At some point you should stop trusting your own opinion in these matters.

And the amazing thing is that you (and all conservatives apparently) ignore the non stop lies that have literally blown up in your face and happily and obediently believe the next lie. I have found that conservatives are simply incapable of admitting even the most basic facts concerning Obamacare. Prove me wrong LD. Start your next post with the following sentence:

"Sure Obamacare has covered 20 million people but .........."

 

[Citizen.Seven]

The fundamental problem has always been to call it a health care system, which implies that the whole industry needs to be topped-down managed. Systems have system operators or managers, who make sweeping decisions that have huge as well as trickle down effects, to "fix" one aspect. Rather, it is a market, made up tens of thousands individual businesses, which means that regulating it [NOT manaaging it] should consist of establishing a few simple rules and enforcing them, rather than tens of thousands of pages of minuatae procedures, with all sorts of carve outs and exceptions.

 

[code1211]

The more messed up that PPACA makes things in the "private" medical care insurance market then the more likely that folks will demand a different federal government solution. Talk has already (largely) shifted from repealing PPACA to replacing PPACA - that still means federal control of all medical care insurance will remain the law of the land.

Indiana refused to be a part of the swindle and instead expanded Medicare covering the poorest individuals.

Those with money to pay for insurance go about their business. Those who are too poor get help.

This is obviously NOT the Obamacare, communist, model.

It makes sense and does what Obamacare was presented to do except it does so without turning the whole system upside down.

Obviously NOT a BIG FEDERAL GOVERNMENT solution. It works, is economical, is generous and is effective.

ALL of those qualities are normally absent from big government solutions.

 

[code1211]

It is really very sad to go for such a misbegotten system, just because the political elite couldn't manage to inform the population, how an economically rational system would work.

The goal was NOT to do a good thing.

If you don't grab and hold that idea, you don't understand Obamacare.

 

[code1211]

ooooooo LD, let me stop you right there. You saw death panels. You saw a govt takeover of health care.You saw nobody signing up. You saw nobody paying when they did sign up. You saw 50-100 million people losing insurance. You saw a death spiral. You saw Obamacare adding to the deficit. You saw Obamacare destroying the economy and killing jobs. yep, you 'saw' a lot of things that simply didn't happen. At some point you should stop trusting your own opinion in these matters.

And the amazing thing is that you (and all conservatives apparently) ignore the non stop lies that have literally blown up in your face and happily and obediently believe the next lie. I have found that conservatives are simply incapable of admitting even the most basic facts concerning Obamacare. Prove me wrong LD. Start your next post with the following sentence:

"Sure Obamacare has covered 20 million people but .........."

At what cost?

Part of the waterfall of lies and swindles and bribes and kick backs that sold this bait and switch scheme was that the average family would see their premiums reduced by $2500 per year.

If the cost is dramatically more than promised, that's cause for a law suit in the private sector. Just because we accept that Obama cannot breath without lying, that does not lessen the impact of the lies coming from his mouth.

By the way, INSURING 20 million more people does not mean that we are caring for 20 million more people. The people were already being cared for.

Luckily, though, since Obamacare arrived we are suddenly raised from being ranked the absolute worst in the world to being to being ranked the absolute worst. What!!??!?! Is this was a Trillion dollars buys around here?



The Quality of US Healthcare Compared With the World

<snip>
A 2014 report from the Commonwealth Fund revealed continued trends that were along the same lines—despite the implementation of the Affordable Care Act (ACA) in the interim.

In the report, the US “ranked last overall among 11 industrialized countries on measures of health system quality, efficiency, access to care, equity and healthy lives.”

Significantly, the US was noted to have the highest costs while also displaying the lowest performance. - See more at: The Quality of US Healthcare Compared With the World
<snip>

Just one more example of the pencil necks in DC getting outsmarted by the people who know what they are doing.

 

[code1211]

The fundamental problem has always been to call it a health care system, which implies that the whole industry needs to be topped-down managed. Systems have system operators or managers, who make sweeping decisions that have huge as well as trickle down effects, to "fix" one aspect. Rather, it is a market, made up tens of thousands individual businesses, which means that regulating it [NOT manaaging it] should consist of establishing a few simple rules and enforcing them, rather than tens of thousands of pages of minuatae procedures, with all sorts of carve outs and exceptions.

In this particular case, they imply that they are talking about healthcare when they are only talking about insurance.

It's like saying they are talking about safe driving when they are only talking about collision insurance.

While this is a bit of a distinction, it is at the base of the entire understanding of the swindle.

Everything, from the name of the original law to the methods used to pass this swindle to the regulation maze to the spiral rise of costs is a part of it and the people who did pass it got rich while the rest of us suffer.

That the lap dogs in the press allowed this whole thing to go by unchallenged is yet another proof of their undying loyalty to the Leftists in the country and their sheer stupidity.

 

[Fenton]

ooooooo LD, let me stop you right there. You saw death panels. You saw a govt takeover of health care.You saw nobody signing up. You saw nobody paying when they did sign up. You saw 50-100 million people losing insurance. You saw a death spiral. You saw Obamacare adding to the deficit. You saw Obamacare destroying the economy and killing jobs. yep, you 'saw' a lot of things that simply didn't happen. At some point you should stop trusting your own opinion in these matters.

And the amazing thing is that you (and all conservatives apparently) ignore the non stop lies that have literally blown up in your face and happily and obediently believe the next lie. I have found that conservatives are simply incapable of admitting even the most basic facts concerning Obamacare. Prove me wrong LD. Start your next post with the following sentence:

"Sure Obamacare has covered 20 million people but .........."

Yup, ObamaCare has done great things VERN,..........for the GOP.

The Republican Wave Sweeps the Midterm Elections - The Atlantic

 

[joG]

The goal was NOT to do a good thing.

If you don't grab and hold that idea, you don't understand Obamacare.

Whatever. It was built in a way that could have sought forgiveness, had it been enacted to do a good thing. But, if it doesn't even have that albeit silly excuse, it was even worse than negligent.

 

[JC Callender]

ooooooo LD, let me stop you right there. You saw death panels. You saw a govt takeover of health care.You saw nobody signing up. You saw nobody paying when they did sign up. You saw 50-100 million people losing insurance. You saw a death spiral. You saw Obamacare adding to the deficit. You saw Obamacare destroying the economy and killing jobs. yep, you 'saw' a lot of things that simply didn't happen. At some point you should stop trusting your own opinion in these matters.

And the amazing thing is that you (and all conservatives apparently) ignore the non stop lies that have literally blown up in your face and happily and obediently believe the next lie. I have found that conservatives are simply incapable of admitting even the most basic facts concerning Obamacare. Prove me wrong LD. Start your next post with the following sentence:

"Sure Obamacare has covered 20 million people but .........."

It's a mess. I've had two policies cancelled because between the Marketplace and Blue Cross, they didn't understand either what binder payments are or simply didn't know how to register them. I've tried on several occasions in both instances to have my insurance reinstated to no avail. Absolutely no mercy. And I was always totally willing to pay and in one instance, signed up for automatic withdrawal from my checking account and they still screwed it up. Last April, I got to add over $300 to my federal tax bill because my issues never got resolved so I simply didn't have insurance. Part of the problem is that you have three entities that don't work well together and often blame each other. If I call Blue Cross and ask them why my insurance was cancelled, they blame the Marketplace. The Marketplace blames Blue Cross. I ask the Marketplace if they can at least waive my penalty, but nope, they have nothing to do with the IRS.

I've probably had at least 30 phone conversations to attempt to resolve these issues. I've sent probably 10 different appeals. Now I'm dealing with a U.S. Senator and Congressman to attempt to get this resolved. What it all boils down to though is that this is our inefficient government, and always has been. All one had to do before the ACA went into effect was look at the history of our government to see how this would turn out.

 

[Vern]

It's a mess. I've had two policies cancelled because between the Marketplace and Blue Cross, they didn't understand either what binder payments are or simply didn't know how to register them. I've tried on several occasions in both instances to have my insurance reinstated to no avail. Absolutely no mercy. And I was always totally willing to pay and in one instance, signed up for automatic withdrawal from my checking account and they still screwed it up. Last April, I got to add over $300 to my federal tax bill because my issues never got resolved so I simply didn't have insurance. Part of the problem is that you have three entities that don't work well together and often blame each other. If I call Blue Cross and ask them why my insurance was cancelled, they blame the Marketplace. The Marketplace blames Blue Cross. I ask the Marketplace if they can at least waive my penalty, but nope, they have nothing to do with the IRS.

I've probably had at least 30 phone conversations to attempt to resolve these issues. I've sent probably 10 different appeals. Now I'm dealing with a U.S. Senator and Congressman to attempt to get this resolved. What it all boils down to though is that this is our inefficient government, and always has been. All one had to do before the ACA went into effect was look at the history of our government to see how this would turn out.

wow, its hard to believe you're having such problems with such a simple process. And three years into it even. Which one is you?

Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

51 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 15 closed in last 12 months

Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Michigan Review - Insurance Services in Detroit, MI - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Eastern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula

 

[Vern]

At what cost?

Part of the waterfall of lies and swindles and bribes and kick backs that sold this bait and switch scheme was that the average family would see their premiums reduced by $2500 per year.

Oh Code, see how once you believe a lie you don't let go no matter what. The 2500 dollar savings was for President Obama's universal plan. that's not what passed. President Obama had to compromise on the republicans plan of mandates. And code, every time an editorial reminds you of the 2500, they rely on you not knowing the truth. What does that say about them and what does it say about you?

By the way, INSURING 20 million more people does not mean that we are caring for 20 million more people. The people were already being cared for.

Oh code, the republicans really appreciate your obedience. maybe they got their broken legs fixed at the emergency room but they weren't getting stents or chemo at the emergency room. And code, they definitely weren't getting that thing on their neck looked at. that requires a doctor visit because its not an emergency.

Luckily, though, since Obamacare arrived we are suddenly raised from being ranked the absolute worst in the world to being to being ranked the absolute worst. What!!??!?! Is this was a Trillion dollars buys around here?

If it weren't for Obamacare increasing access to heathcare and making it more affordable, reducing the deficit and improving the quality of care, I would say not shooting to the top of the chart before the first year of coverage even kicked in would definitely be justification for repeal. thank goodness it increases access to heathcare and makes it more affordable, reduces the deficit and improves the quality of care. Here's a link if you want to see the scoring. we'll probably always be last in access. the other countries have universal coverage.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund

 

[Vern]

Indiana refused to be a part of the swindle and instead expanded Medicare covering the poorest individuals.

Those with money to pay for insurance go about their business. Those who are too poor get help.

This is obviously NOT the Obamacare, communist, model.

It makes sense and does what Obamacare was presented to do except it does so without turning the whole system upside down.

Obviously NOT a BIG FEDERAL GOVERNMENT solution. It works, is economical, is generous and is effective.

ALL of those qualities are normally absent from big government solutions.

oh code, you have to start a thread on the "Indiana miracle". this story is too big for just one post. We need more.

 

[code1211]

Whatever. It was built in a way that could have sought forgiveness, had it been enacted to do a good thing. But, if it doesn't even have that albeit silly excuse, it was even worse than negligent.

If it had been constructed to do what it was advertised to be trying to do, then it would look and act like the "Healthy Indiana Plan" which is functioning very well and does not have any of the Obamacare funding.

HIP, incidentally, did not scrap other programs, destroy the entire healthcare payment structure or require bribes and kick backs to get passed.

It also uses systems and processes managed locally within the state and avoids the flow of even more funds through the sticky fingered folks in Washington DC.

All in all, passed with no threats, managed locally, not a fiscal boondoggle, not a machine to fund the dishonest; is nothing like an Obama program.

http://www.in.gov/fssa/hip/files/HIP_Response_to_Forbes_Article.pdf

 

[code1211]

Oh Code, see how once you believe a lie you don't let go no matter what. The 2500 dollar savings was for President Obama's universal plan. that's not what passed. President Obama had to compromise on the republicans plan of mandates. And code, every time an editorial reminds you of the 2500, they rely on you not knowing the truth. What does that say about them and what does it say about you?




Oh code, the republicans really appreciate your obedience. maybe they got their broken legs fixed at the emergency room but they weren't getting stents or chemo at the emergency room. And code, they definitely weren't getting that thing on their neck looked at. that requires a doctor visit because its not an emergency.



If it weren't for Obamacare increasing access to heathcare and making it more affordable, reducing the deficit and improving the quality of care, I would say not shooting to the top of the chart before the first year of coverage even kicked in would definitely be justification for repeal. thank goodness it increases access to heathcare and makes it more affordable, reduces the deficit and improves the quality of care. Here's a link if you want to see the scoring. we'll probably always be last in access. the other countries have universal coverage.

Mirror, Mirror on the Wall, 2014 Update: How the U.S. Health Care System Compares Internationally - The Commonwealth Fund

In spite of your misdirection, the Obamacare plan as passed did not receive even one, single Republican vote. This is probably because not even one single bribe was offered to do so. This says nothing about the cpomparitive wisdom or lack of wisdom between the parties. All members of and proponents of the parties, endorsing either as being better or smarter, only expose the naivety of the proponent.

Obama says health plan incorporates the ideas of Democrats and Republicans | PolitiFact

According to the Daily Mail from the UK, the cost of the boondoggle just keeps going up and the uninsured in the USA has dropped from 30 million to a number between 29 and 31 million. The cost per American is up to about 50 Million dollars per individual. Great deal for us by Obama standards.

Obamacare program costs $50,000 for every American who gets health insurance | Daily Mail Online

Reducing the deficit has nothing to do with anything Obama has planned. It is the result of the Sequester which was passed as the result of the game of Chicken between the Administrative and Legislative branches.

If you need to distort to support your case, you make your case look a little weak. Why not deal in actual facts instead of distortion and half truths?

Healthy Indiana Plan does exactly what Obamacare said it was trying to do and does so without the Federal bribes, theft, control or lies.

OMB warns of consequences if sequestration returns in 2016 - FederalNewsRadio.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_sequestration

 

[code1211]

oh code, you have to start a thread on the "Indiana miracle". this story is too big for just one post. We need more.

I see...

Something from government that works but does not require subterfuge, lies, theft, graft, deception and pay-offs to the party elite strikes a Party loyalist mute.

Yet another benefit from the HIP.

 

[Fenton]

wow, its hard to believe you're having such problems with such a simple process. And three years into it even. Which one is you?

Customer Complaints Summary Read complaint details

51 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 15 closed in last 12 months

Blue Cross & Blue Shield of Michigan Review - Insurance Services in Detroit, MI - BBB Business Review - BBB serving Eastern Michigan and the Upper Peninsula

Hahaha !!

Its not ObamaCare is a stinking pile of crap that's partially responsibile for the Dems losing the Senate and mores seats in the House, its that Americans are too stupid to use it

 

[code1211]

Hahaha !!

Its not ObamaCare is a stinking pile of crap that's partially responsibile for the Dems losing the Senate and mores seats in the House, its that Americans are too stupid to use it

Any failure of Big government to help the poor, uniformed and stupid population is the fault of the poor, uninformed and stupid population.

Not much different than any other faith healer failing to heal. You gives him your money and your takes your chances.

 

[legalimmigrant]

Any failure of Big government to help the poor, uniformed and stupid population is the fault of the poor, uninformed and stupid population.

Not much different than any other faith healer failing to heal. You gives him your money and your takes your chances.

Spot on. A quote from WSJ.com:

The American people elected this arrogant, congenitally lying, narcissistic, divisive Marxist to be their President and they did so twice, the second time after all of his cards were on the table.
The United States of America has a much larger problem than Barack Hussein Obama, and it is the people and the culture that elected him.

 

[Fenton]

Any failure of Big government to help the poor, uniformed and stupid population is the fault of the poor, uninformed and stupid population.

Not much different than any other faith healer failing to heal. You gives him your money and your takes your chances.

I've always said Liberalism has a self destruct mechanism built right into it, and the fallout from ObamaCare is a great example

As a ideology it just never delivers on its promises ( lies ) and that pisses people off. Vern is a good example of their startegy for damage control

Lol.....its a hell of a strategy. Its like when they're trying to disarm a bomb in the Movies, and someone cuts the wrong wire and the timer goes from 5 minutes to 5 seconds.

Its not Obama's fault, we're just too stupid to use Obamacare correctly

I remember watching Ezeikel Emanual, Rahm Emanual's scum bag brother being interviewed by Chris Wallas

This.. .


:lamo :lamo :mrgreen:

What a low life. They absolutely think the average American is a blithering idiot

 

[Vern]

Hahaha !!

Its not ObamaCare is a stinking pile of crap that's partially responsibile for the Dems losing the Senate and mores seats in the House, its that Americans are too stupid to use it

oh fenton, it wasn't Obamacare. It was the non stop lies from the right about Obamacare and the ignorance of conservatives belieiving those lies. Just read Code's posts if you don't understand.

 

[Fenton]

oh fenton, it wasn't Obamacare. It was the non stop lies from the right about Obamacare and the ignorance of conservatives belieiving those lies. Just read Code's posts if you don't understand.

Oh there were lies, but they weren't coming from Conservatives. They were coming from low life scum like Ezeikel Emanual and Barrack Obama...

 

[Vern]

If you need to distort to support your case, you make your case look a little weak. Why not deal in actual facts instead of distortion and half truths?

Oh code, thanks for the laughs. It’s always funny when conservatives accuse me of exactly what they do. First, see how you avoid discussing the “2500 saving” lie you posted. Run con run. Second, I wasn’t discussing republicans not voting for Obamacare nor was I discussing what amendments made it out of committees in 2009 . I was discussing President Obama’s universal health care plan died in congress so he compromised on the republican plan of mandates. Here’s a politifact article on what I was actually discussing not what you wish I was discussing

Among other features, the Chafee bill included:
• An individual mandate;
• Creation of purchasing pools;
• Standardized benefits;
• Vouchers for the poor to buy insurance;
• A ban on denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition.

Is the ACA the GOP health care plan from 1993? | PunditFact

Can you believe republicans were sponsoring bills as late as 2009 that included mandates? Shocking right. The thing you were instructed to hate the most (and did so quite obediently) was a republican idea and they supported them for 20 years. And code, your daily mail “editorial” is designed to give the impression Obamacare does not reduce the deficit. Its why it doesn’t say it. It relies on your gullibility and obedience to fill in the blanks. Try to focus. We’re discussing the dishonest "2500 savings" narrative you obediently believe and the fact republicans ‘invented’ and supported mandates for 20 years and President Obama compromised on them.