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Corruption Not Caused by Character Flaws, But By Institutional Structure

danarhea

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As Republicans have so painfully found out, it isnt the inherent character of our politicians which causes corruption, but by the institutional nature of a system which itself corrupts. Leaders are only human, after all, with all the pecadillos which human beings have.

Republicans of 1994, who came to power on a wave of protest over corruption and wasteful spending, are now caught in the same trap themselves, only worse. As the power of the Clinton administraton corrupted, the absolute power of the Bush administration has corrupted absolutely. Some of our corrupt officials, both Republican and Democrat, were probably pretty decent people at one time, but were changed into what they are today by the system itself.

So how do we end corruption in Washington? Not be making more rules which can be broken, but by taking away the incentive which causes corruption. Of course, we are talking about the money. That is the root of all the power of Washington which corrupts our leaders.

Based on this article.
 
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Kandahar

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Eliminate money in what way? Do you mean reduce the power of Congress to spend so much? If so, I agree. If congressmen have nothing to "sell," then lobbyists will have nothing to "buy."
 

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If we want a better government, then we have to be a better society.
 

Binary_Digit

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Billo_Really said:
If we want a better government, then we have to be a better society.
I'll drink to that.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by Binary_Digit
I'll drink to that.
I'm off to the gym right now, I'll drink later.
 

jallman

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Billo_Really said:
If we want a better government, then we have to be a better society.
ABSOLUTELY!!! And until we become a better society, we dont really deserve a better government.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by jallman
ABSOLUTELY!!! And until we become a better society, we dont really deserve a better government.
I think I even started a thread around here called, "We got the government we deserve!"
 

jallman

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Billo_Really said:
I think I even started a thread around here called, "We got the government we deserve!"
Well the sad part about it is that we dont all deserve this government. Me, I probably do as I helped vote this administration in. I was blinded by my faith in the war and that we were doing some good. Alabama and Texas...well they probably deserve this government, too, just on stereotypical principle. However, there is a lot of bad **** going down with our government right now that I never thought I would see...and this administration is spiraling out of control. I see that now and if I could take back my vote I would.

I have never been more ashamed of a choice I made as I am of the one I made that day in november.
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by jallman
Well the sad part about it is that we dont all deserve this government. Me, I probably do as I helped vote this administration in. I was blinded by my faith in the war and that we were doing some good. Alabama and Texas...well they probably deserve this government, too, just on stereotypical principle. However, there is a lot of bad **** going down with our government right now that I never thought I would see...and this administration is spiraling out of control. I see that now and if I could take back my vote I would.

I have never been more ashamed of a choice I made as I am of the one I made that day in november.
I've never been more ashamed to be an American that at anytime in my life.
 

danarhea

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Billo_Really said:
I've never been more ashamed to be an American that at anytime in my life.
I will NEVER be ashamed to be an American. If one doesnt love his country, and is ashamed of it, then how in the world can that person be resolved to take it back? I critisize my leaders and political structure out of my love for America and what America can be, not out of shame.

Despite leaders like Bush and Clinton, America is still the greatest nation in the world, and the only nation where a revolution can happen every 4 years without a shot being fired.
 
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danarhea said:
I will NEVER be ashamed to be an American. If one doesnt love his country, and is ashamed of it, then how in the world can that person be resolved to take it back? I critisize my leaders and political structure out of my love for America and what America can be, not out of shame.

Despite leaders like Bush and Clinton, America is still the greatest nation in the world, and the only nation where a revolution can happen every 4 years without a shot being fired.
Well said. Bravo.
 

jallman

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Billo_Really said:
I've never been more ashamed to be an American that at anytime in my life.
I wont go that far. I still think we live in the greatest country in the world and I love my fellow Americans. However, I think we have the single most un-American president in the history of our nation. He has no regard for the law, has no regard for the truth when it comes to the people. I was in Canada a couple months ago for a wedding and the topic of Bush came up at the reception. All I could do was down my drink as a means of escaping to the bar and not taking part in the discussion. Thats not right...especially since I voted for him.
 
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jallman said:
I think we have the single most un-American president in the history of our nation. He has no regard for the law, has no regard for the truth when it comes to the people.
Opinionated generalization.
 

danarhea

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jallman said:
I wont go that far. I still think we live in the greatest country in the world and I love my fellow Americans. However, I think we have the single most un-American president in the history of our nation. He has no regard for the law, has no regard for the truth when it comes to the people. I was in Canada a couple months ago for a wedding and the topic of Bush came up at the reception. All I could do was down my drink as a means of escaping to the bar and not taking part in the discussion. Thats not right...especially since I voted for him.
You know, I have a pretty good memory. You were a strong Bush supporter last year, I believe. In fact, I believe you and I had a couple of pretty heated discussions last year. If so, then I am glad to see that you finally see the truth. Just dont become a Democrat. They are just as bad.

Where is your political compass at this time? What parties are you leaning towards? I hope it is towards something, and not just throwing up your hands and saying "screw it". The alternative parties, while small, do offer a true choice, and if you are Conservative, you have more than one choice. I chose Libertarian, but the Constitution party is good too. Other than their wanting to bring religion into government, their ideals are pretty much the same as Libertarian. We and Constitutionalists will always disagree over the religion issue, but we have a lot of common ground on just about everything else. :)
 

jallman

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danarhea said:
You know, I have a pretty good memory. You were a strong Bush supporter last year, I believe. In fact, I believe you and I had a couple of pretty heated discussions last year. If so, then I am glad to see that you finally see the truth. Just dont become a Democrat. They are just as bad.

Where is your political compass at this time? What parties are you leaning towards? I hope it is towards something, and not just throwing up your hands and saying "screw it". The alternative parties, while small, do offer a true choice, and if you are Conservative, you have more than one choice. I chose Libertarian, but the Constitution party is good too. Other than their wanting to bring religion into government, their ideals are pretty much the same as Libertarian. We and Constitutionalists will always disagree over the religion issue, but we have a lot of common ground on just about everything else. :)

Yeah, I did support him. I did. And the straw that finally broke the camel's back was the whole domestic wire-tapping thing. Not that they were doing it, but the smugness and the back-pedaling and the disregard for the law are what turned me off. I was still biting my tongue on the Bush issue until yesterday and now I dont care anymore. This administration has aligned itself with the very people we oppose when it comes to human rights and I will not abide that. We voted, along with Iran and other human rights violators, to not give consultation status to human rights groups that represent homosexuals. I'm done. I am through with this president and his entire administration. I am done with the republican party and I wont even acknowledge the democrats because they are the wusses that let this happen. I'm done biting my tongue out of a sense of loyalty to a government that is not loyal to me or anything my country stands for. You will never hear another supportive word about Bush from me again. I have supported this war because I thought the president had the right reasons for going in, but now I dont think the president has the right reasons for anything...so my support of the troops is still strong and I want them to win the war, but at the same time my support of the administration that start this war is nil. I am done basically. After that bit of news yesterday, I am done.
 

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KCConservative said:
yes, that's another way of putting it.
I am glad you are finally catching on to the irrelevance of every post you make.
 
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jallman said:
I am glad you are finally catching on to the irrelevance of every post you make.
You misread. Your post was opinionated and general, or in your words, pointless drivel. I was agreeing with you.
 

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KCConservative said:
You misread. Your post was opinionated and general, or in your words, pointless drivel. I was agreeing with you.
oh I see...the famous "I know you are but what am I?" tactic. Cute...for a third grader. Get lost until you have something worthwhile to say. I guess that means you'll be back...hmmmmm....never.
 
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jallman said:
oh I see...the famous "I know you are but what am I?" tactic. Cute...for a third grader. Get lost until you have something worthwhile to say. I guess that means you'll be back...hmmmmm....never.
:shock: what?
 

danarhea

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jallman said:
Yeah, I did support him. I did. And the straw that finally broke the camel's back was the whole domestic wire-tapping thing. Not that they were doing it, but the smugness and the back-pedaling and the disregard for the law are what turned me off. I was still biting my tongue on the Bush issue until yesterday and now I dont care anymore. This administration has aligned itself with the very people we oppose when it comes to human rights and I will not abide that. We voted, along with Iran and other human rights violators, to not give consultation status to human rights groups that represent homosexuals. I'm done. I am through with this president and his entire administration. I am done with the republican party and I wont even acknowledge the democrats because they are the wusses that let this happen. I'm done biting my tongue out of a sense of loyalty to a government that is not loyal to me or anything my country stands for. You will never hear another supportive word about Bush from me again. I have supported this war because I thought the president had the right reasons for going in, but now I dont think the president has the right reasons for anything...so my support of the troops is still strong and I want them to win the war, but at the same time my support of the administration that start this war is nil. I am done basically. After that bit of news yesterday, I am done.
I hope that "I am done" means just with the 2 major parties. I hope that I can spiel you a little on the Libertarian Party. Go here, then tell me what you think. Conservative values are still very much alive here.

By the way, if there is anyone Republicans hate the most, its not a Liberal, but a Conservative who has jumped ship. That is why you are starting to see some attacks on you already by them. Brace yourself, there will be a lot more, but as long as you are comfortable with your decision, there is nothing they can do but complain. Sticks and stones. Dont let it bother you.
 
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danarhea said:
By the way, if there is anyone Republicans hate the most, its not a Liberal, but a Conservative who has jumped ship.
There is only mutual and adult admiration for you both. Your viewpoints are always welcome, just as the viewpoints of those who oppose yours are welcome. Hate is a very strong word, dana.
 

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KCConservative said:
There is only mutual and adult admiration for you both. Your viewpoints are always welcome, just as the viewpoints of those who oppose yours are welcome. Hate is a very strong word, dana.
Man, that was the most pleasant thing I have ever seen you post to anyone. There is a softer side to KC than I realized! :2wave:
 
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jallman said:
Man, that was the most pleasant thing I have ever seen you post to anyone. There is a softer side to KC than I realized! :2wave:
Dana likes to make it personal and ugly. Sometimes it's necessary to reel him in and remind him that it's just a discussion.
 
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