cop acquitted of murder captured on video

This one was a tough one.... Policemen was in error in my opinion... manslaughter w/ smallest punishment... no jail time... and if it requires jail-time i would reduce the charge to te next highest w/o jailtime

why did I feel like the cop was in the wrong? They prolonged the process way longer than needed...the victim was obviously scared out of his mind, you needed to cuff him/put him in custody ASAP... in my opinion the cop put himself and the victim in more danger the method he used to put him under arrest .

I assume the police were afraid of other people behind the victim down the hall... and if they were afraid of that... leave the guy there flat on the ground, until you think you can move there.... don't make him crawl to you to where if he gives the slightest flinch you'll shoot him.

I sincerely think it was lack of good judgement... though I don't find the policemen a murderer by any means


As a side note.... if this guy was black... cop for sure would be in trouble.... just my opinion.

Fledermaus said:

So, the officer should have wait until guns are drawn and bullets are flying...

Got it.

These "weak minded cowards" who serve as police officers will be removed from the gene pool...

Then what?

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Did I say that? No. I did not. Not even a little bit. But folks like you always go high and to the right when confronted with someone that actually understands the moral use of lethal force.

As I said. If the officer had followed good and moral escalation of force prodedures he would have created time and distance had the individual actually attempted to present a weapon. Instead he killed an unarmed human being. Unfortunately he was acquitted. But he knows what he did. He knows he was in error and violated his oath.

Hopefully he lives with the pain of his failure for a very long time.

TurtleDude said:

reckless homicide was the proper charge

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You see this often with unjustified shootings involving Leo's. The system protects itself. Often times a procicutor will push for charges against Leo's in bad shoots at the behest of the public in an attempt at self preservation. Much of the time they will go for the maximum charge even though they know the actual crime committed will not meet the letter of the law. So the Leo won't be convicted.

The system protects itself.

jaeger19 said:

Yeah no.. it was clear that he had no firearm.. from the angle you could see that he did not have one in his waistband or the small of his back. It was pretty obvious that in crawling his shorts got caught up in his leg and were being pulled and he reflexively reached to adjust them. Heck..he didn;t even get a chance to bring his hands back into view.. that minor deviation from crawling got him shot.

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I disagree. I saw what I saw as well. Which is why eye witnesses do not always = 'good' witnesses. I didn't realize you were there.

What else did you witness? opcorn2:

jaeger19 said:

there were probably a hundred people in that hotel that day. And so what if he had a gun? So? Cripes.. lots of people carry concealed and unconcealed legally. Not to mention all the other ways that people mistake something for a firearm.

Whats scary is that when stopped in a park talking to my mother on a cell phone.. in a minivan no less. I had police noticed two police officers coming up along side my vehicle in the sideview mirror. I put the window down and said.. whats going on officer. the officer looked into the car and radioed.. "Its just toys".

My two little boys.. age 4 and 5 had used legos to construct little "guns"..and were pretending that they were shooting things and each other in the back seat.. in their car seats.

Apparently.. some "concerned citizen" had called the police stating "their were gang members brandishing guns in the park".

Now.. according to your philosophy.. those police officers would have been perfectly within their rights to gun down everyone in the car based on "gang members brandishing guns".

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:roll: Yeah, that's what I meant.

holbritter said:

I disagree. I saw what I saw as well. Which is why eye witnesses do not always = 'good' witnesses. I didn't realize you were there.

What else did you witness? opcorn2:

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They have done studies on how unreliable witness testimony really is... 80-90% get it "what they saw" WRONG with what actually happened... even huge things.

Glen Contrarian said:

All that mattered was that he reached behind him with his right hand, and the one whose body cam footage was shown could not see what the hand was reaching for. In a sensible world, the policeman wouldn't have shot...but this policeman was so hyped on adrenaline, and taught to be so paranoid in his training, that that's all it took for him to honestly feel endangered and so he ended the victim's life.

The problem isn't that policeman, but the training that instills such paranoia on the part of the police even as deaths of police are near a record low.

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Looks more to me like the guy just slipped forward awkwardly.

Seems like everything is treated like a deadly threat right out of the gate. It wasn't always this way, was it?




You say police deaths are "near record lows", but what of violent crime? That's fallen sharply over the decades. I'd be more interested in the ratio of police kills vs. violent crimes.

Bodhisattva said:

I self represented three times... one a motion... one against the Unemployment Dept and once in Family Court for a case. I am not a lawyer but beat two lawyers and the third the Judge ruled in my favor. I am not here to present a case either... but if I were i would withdraw if not enough evidence went my way... or win, as is my routine.

Based off of the main and most important evidence that there is... and off statements too... the outcome is wrong in terms of guilt. Why the prosecuter bungled it... or the outcome favoured the cop... like I said... could have been a number of things.

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Looks like I called it, a matrimonial and a departmental hearing which is not a court. Neither are concerned with guilt or innocence, neither concerned with proving guilt.

Your pronouncement fails for good reason, most important because you don't understand or accept how this criminal law action is based on the need of the prosecution to prove the guilt of the suspect without reasonable doubt, not an equity issue like your personal forays.

Bodhisattva said:

See above post...

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I did and wasn't impressed in the slightest.

My friend Monte's third wife attacked him with a hatchet at 3 in the morning. He deserved it.

When the police arrived, she offered them oral sex if they arrested him and not her. They viewed the hatchet, and they declined.

The hearing officer who heard the case dismissed it. No one was hurt beyond pride.

Monte was lucky it was a large hatchet. He just married wife #11. You'd think the guy would have learned by now.....

OldFatGuy said:

Looks like I called it, a matrimonial and a departmental hearing which is not a court. Neither are concerned with guilt or innocence, neither concerned with proving guilt.

Your pronouncement fails for good reason, most important because you don't understand or accept how this criminal law action is based on the need of the prosecution to prove the guilt of the suspect without reasonable doubt, not an equity issue like your personal forays.

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So what is your experience in Court?

OldFatGuy said:

I did and wasn't impressed in the slightest.

My friend Monte's third wife attacked him with a hatchet at 3 in the morning. He deserved it.

When the police arrived, she offered them oral sex if they arrested him and not her. They viewed the hatchet, and they declined.

The hearing officer who heard the case dismissed it. No one was hurt beyond pride.

Monte was lucky it was a large hatchet. He just married wife #11. You'd think the guy would have learned by now.....

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Your posting sucks... seriously. Insults, accusations and then denial. I guess you are a confrontational person... not sure... don't care. Post better.

Bodhisattva said:

Lol. You question my experince in law then turn around and claim to be a ninja... :lol:

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Wrong ethnic choice. I learned my knife throwing skills from a Viennese trained pastry chef, my grandmother. She was parts Austrian, Russian, Polish and Hungarian, and god knows what else. It got a bit hairy in those old kitchens.

FYI real ninjas didn't throw knives, they used other blade weapons. More importantly, real ninjas didn't deal in assassination and death, their primary functions were acquiring information, dispersing misinformation. Nothing like those bad martial arts movies. More like American and European journalists.

jaeger19 said:

You know what I do? Ask him to please stop moving, (assuming I already rifle ready as in this scenario).. until I identify that he is pulling his weapon out to kill me. That's what the law and common sense dictates.

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Which law?

jaeger19 said:

Good post.. and to add to that.. the civilian population has to hold the police responsible for their actions. Doing so is what will change the training, change the mindset and change the culture that has apparently developed.

and whats ironic.. is that its a safer time, with less violence.. than almost at any other time in history. the police have LESS to fear now overall.

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Tho there are no single quality sources for determining either numbers of police shot on the job, nor sources for determining the number of citizens shot by police in any given year, amalgamating multiple sources show since 1900 shows the national annual death rate for police on the job numbered between 15-20 up until the 1940's, spiked to about 30 starting in 1946 through the early 1960's, flew out the window with reports of 100-220 from the mid 60's at the lower end to a high or 221 in 1983. Thereon dropping toward today's rates of 40-50 annually, a constant for the past ten years. The FBI does not require either reports of police killed in the line of duty or citizens killed by police. Reporting is voluntary. However, if you are the officer killed on the job, 1 is too many, and no one wants to be that one. The peak year for known civilian deaths at the hands of police was 1933, with numbers greater than 900 annually for the previous and post ten years. However, it should be noted that during 1933 more than 60% of the nation's police were employed by private hands, meaning corporations, inclusive of strike breaking private police forces like the Pinkertons (who truly got their start battling the James and Cole brothers robbing the railroads and banks). During the past decade ending with 2015 (insufficient data for 2016 and this year), civilian deaths at the hands of police held to a mean of approximately 240, with 98% proven to courts and civilian review boards to be preceded by actions of the civilians. However, one unjustifiable death of a civilian at police hands is one too much. N'est-ce pas?

The region of the nation consistently with the most deaths of police officers, and the most deaths of civilians at the hands of police is southern Indiana on a per capita basis. (Former home of John Dillinger, Pretty Boy Floyd, some real serious serial killers, and actor James Dean, singer/dancer Michael Jackson)

Approximately 17,000 annual deaths in the US result from criminal violence. Approximately 5.8 million violent deaths from criminal actions occur annually throughout the world according to WHO. For perspective. I have my doubts about WHO's numbers, which I believe includes undeclared wars not recognized by the UN, like the current 6 wars in the Congo and surrounding nations. For additional perspective, 37,461 people were killed in automotive collisions or "accidents" during 2016 in the US. Prosecute the automotive executives and ban all motorized vehicles, eh?

Apparently, you also speak with no knowledge, just your personal political agenda.

OldFatGuy said:

Wrong ethnic choice. I learned my knife throwing skills from a Viennese trained pastry chef, my grandmother. She was parts Austrian, Russian, Polish and Hungarian, and god knows what else. It got a bit hairy in those old kitchens.

FYI real ninjas didn't throw knives, they used other blade weapons. More importantly, real ninjas didn't deal in assassination and death, their primary functions were acquiring information, dispersing misinformation. Nothing like those bad martial arts movies. More like American and European journalists.

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Yeah.... I know about ninjas.... calling you a ninja is known is a metaphor....
A sarcastic one about your post regarding being a knife wielding super hero.

LowDown said:

So, the cop orders a man reported to have a gun to lay face down in a hallway and instead the man reaches behind his back. It's a split second decision - is he reaching for a gun? By the time the cop actually sees a gun it's too late to react. The wrong response might get the cop killed.

The moral of the story is always follow the police's instructions.

There are some places in the country where the cops ought to just pull out and let the people there fend for themselves because they are reflexive in their hatred and condemnation of cops. They don't deserve police protection.

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Phuck any police who behave like that, all who support it, and the corporate police state in its entirety along with the politcal system that murders own citizens.

Bodhisattva said:

So what is your experience in Court?

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Witness and arresting officer, more than 200 cases. At least 50 civil cases as a defendant, about 30 civil cases as a complainant. To qualify the civil cases, they were mostly like your own, in the lower courts. One woman sued us in small claims for refusing to service her needs of protection from her ex husband, against which she had an order of protection. We were not in the body guard business, instead functioning as a personal security company, and hired out body guards from subcontractors. We had referred her to three of those subcontractors. The judge threw out the case. Most of the complainant cases were collections of billings or bounced checks. BTW to have only 30 or so collection cases for more than 12,000 files during a 20 or so year period of doing business is phenomenally low. Civil equity courts share very little law with Criminal courts, some formal procedures, but not much else.

I am not an expert, which is why I defer to courts and judges who are experts, and often see what we non-experts don't see. Plus it is their job to know the applicable laws, not yours, or mine. I refuse to participate with your brand of arrogance. You might want to note, I have not expressed any personal opinions regarding the behavior of the officers in question, yet I do see you as a major part of the problem.

Bodhisattva said:

Your posting sucks... seriously. Insults, accusations and then denial. I guess you are a confrontational person... not sure... don't care. Post better.

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Temper, temper. LOL

Bodhisattva said:

Yeah.... I know about ninjas.... calling you a ninja is known is a metaphor....
A sarcastic one about your post regarding being a knife wielding super hero.

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Nothing super about it. From 5-10 feet away, even you can throw a small knife or dart and hit your target. And you accuse me of being insulting?

OldFatGuy said:

Nothing super about it. From 5-10 feet away, even you can throw a small knife or dart and hit your target. And you accuse me of being insulting?

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I said you post of being a Ninja Super Hero... That is a compliment where I come from.

OldFatGuy said:

Witness and arresting officer, more than 200 cases. At least 50 civil cases as a defendant, about 30 civil cases as a complainant. To qualify the civil cases, they were mostly like your own, in the lower courts. One woman sued us in small claims for refusing to service her needs of protection from her ex husband, against which she had an order of protection. We were not in the body guard business, instead functioning as a personal security company, and hired out body guards from subcontractors. We had referred her to three of those subcontractors. The judge threw out the case. Most of the complainant cases were collections of billings or bounced checks. BTW to have only 30 or so collection cases for more than 12,000 files during a 20 or so year period of doing business is phenomenally low. Civil equity courts share very little law with Criminal courts, some formal procedures, but not much else.

I am not an expert, which is why I defer to courts and judges who are experts, and often see what we non-experts don't see. Plus it is their job to know the applicable laws, not yours, or mine. I refuse to participate with your brand of arrogance. You might want to note, I have not expressed any personal opinions regarding the behavior of the officers in question, yet I do see you as a major part of the problem.

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You see not trusting cops as part of the problem and I see it as an intelligent way to protect one self...

Bodhisattva said:

I said you post of being a Ninja Super Hero... That is a compliment where I come from.

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Sarcasm where I sit.

Bodhisattva said:

You see not trusting cops as part of the problem and I see it as an intelligent way to protect one self...

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I truly hope you and yours don't find yourself in a position where the opposite holds true, and your personal philosophy causes you harm.

OldFatGuy said:

Sarcasm where I sit.

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It is that too...

I truly hope you and yours don't find yourself in a position where the opposite holds true, and your personal philosophy causes you harm.

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How does calling the police if there is imminent danger to my daughter or myself but not if there is no threat, "causing me harm"?

Bodhisattva said:

It is that too...



How does calling the police if there is imminent danger to my daughter or myself but not if there is no threat, "causing me harm"?

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Your comprehension skills need work. Do you really believe policing is solely about response to imminent threats? Or that harm is strictly physical?