• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Contradictions in the QURAN

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
In the other thread, Why Do Muslims Think The Quran Came From The Abrahamic God," I was challenged by Valery:

Show me a contradiction in his claims. Please, let it not be a continuation of your ramblings about the angel Gabriel.


Where to begin? Let me start with my claim in which Valery had no argument.

Post #305.




Show me a contradiction in his claims. Please, let it not be a continuation of your ramblings about the angel Gabriel.
No, Muslims don't believe because they think the Bible is flawed. Like - instead of Isaac, Abraham was instructed by God to sacrifice Ishmael!
Lol - and God had let the Bible get around with so many "fake info!"

They think the Abrahamic God is IMPERFECT that He's a clutch!
Lol - they think God has made so many mistakes - He can't even publish a perfect book! :LOL:

That means.........Mohammad knows more than God. Right?



:rolleyes: No arguments detected.
Lol. Imagine that - he corrected God!
I'm glad you agree with me. That's what I thought - hence, Mohammad is kinda worshipped as a god.



Valery hasn't refuted or rebutted my claim above. He hasn't made any effort to indicate I am wrong.........
in fact, he responded by saying he found no argument with what I said.

Which means.......


Islam is not a monotheist as it claims to be.

Muslims worship Mohammad.
 
Last edited:

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
I thought you'd post that contradiction in the message of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم.
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I thought you'd post that contradiction in the message of the Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم.
What is صلى الله عليه وسلم
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
May Allah send blessings and peace upon him.

Yeah. That great show of reverence - May Allah send blessings and peace upon him - is always attached when his name is mentioned, I gather.
That's what I saw in some of the Quran verses.

Compare it when you mention the name of Allah.

You glorify Mohammad more than you do Allah. :confused:

Lol. No one is even allowed to depict a picture of Mohammad. That's how much you glorify, fear, and revere him.
Same as Allah.


You have two gods. Mohammad, and one you call Allah.


Islam is not monotheistic. That's the first contradiction.
 
Last edited:

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
Yeah. That great show of reverence - May Allah send blessings and peace upon him - is always attached when his name is mentioned, I gather.
That's what I saw in some of the Quran verses.

Compare it when you mention the name of Allah.

You glorify Mohammad more than you do Allah. :confused:

Lol. No one is even allowed to depict a picture of Mohammad. That's how much you glorify, fear, and revere him.
Same as Allah.


You have two gods. Mohammad, and one you call Allah.


Islam is not monotheistic. That's the first contradiction.
Sending blessings upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is one of the best and noblest acts of worship by means of which one may draw closer to Allah. Allah, may He be exalted, has enjoined that upon His believing slaves.

(...)

Sending blessings and salaams upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is something that is enjoined. Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):


“O you who believe! Send your Salât on (ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting (salutation i.e. As¬Salâmu 'Alaikum)”


[al-Ahzaab 33:56].


So it is an act of worship, and what is required of the Muslim is to comply with the command of Allah, and not to object to His command.

 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Contradiction #2



ANGEL or JINN?




The Quran says Satan is an angel.

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:34
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.

Surah 15:28-31
And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together.
Except Iblis (Satan)
, - he refused to be among the prostrators

Surah 20:116
And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused.

Surah 38: 71-74

(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going to create man from clay". So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers.

Surah 7: 11-12
And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then
We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated,
except Iblis (Satan),
he refused to be of those who prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.
"



Clearly, Satan was described as an angel who refused to obey Allah's command!
And yet, in other verses Satan was described as a "Jinn," which means he was a demon!


Surah 18:50
And (remember) when
We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimun (polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc).



Satan refused to prostrate himself to Adam because he believes he is better than Adam:
"I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.
" Surah 7: 11-12


The Jinn, according to the Quran, was created from fire.

Surah 15:27
And
the jinn We created before from scorching fire.



Therefore, Satan was a jinn from the very start - not an angel!
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Contradiction #3

:oops:

Holy guacamole - they have the TRINITY!


THE QURAN TEACHES THE CONCEPT OF THE TRIUNE GOD!




Surah Al-Baqarah 2:34
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.


Surah 15:28-31
And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "
I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together. Except Iblis (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators



Surah 20:116
And (remember) when
We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused.



Surah 38: 71-74
(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly,
I am going to create man from clay". So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers.




Surah 7: 11-12
And surely,
We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay."






Who is.........WE?

Clearly.............................. WE, is what we Christians refer to as the TRIUNE GOD! The Trinity! :LOL:
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Well then......
No it doesn't. The Quran says Iblis is a jinn. He was simply in the company of the angels.
Not only is theQuran contradicting itswelf - now, you're also contradicting your own Quran.
Lol. So full of contradictions all around! :LOL:

Unless you have difficulty with comprehension, that's what your Quran says. Satan was an angel.


Surah Al-Baqarah 2:34
And [mention] when We said to the angels
, "Prostrate before Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He refused and was arrogant and became of the disbelievers.

Surah 15:28-31
And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud. So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him." So, the angels prostrated themselves, all of them together.

Except Iblis (Satan), - he refused to be among the prostrators

Surah 20:116
And (remember) when We said to the angels
: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." They prostrated (all) except Iblis (Satan), who refused.

Surah 38: 71-74
(Remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Truly, I am going to create man from clay". So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." So the angels prostrated themselves, all of them: Except Iblis (Satan) he was proud and was one of the disbelievers.

Surah 7: 11-12
And surely, We created you (your father Adam) and then gave you shape (the noble shape of a human being), then We told the angels, "Prostrate to Adam", and they prostrated, except Iblis (Satan), he refused to be of those who prostrate. (Allah) said: "What prevented you (O Iblis) that you did not prostrate, when I commanded you?" Iblis said: "I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.
"
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That doesn't say he was an angel. :rolleyes:
I suppose you can't refute it.....so, you're just digging in, even when it shows you're wrong.


Here's contradiction #4.

This contradiction comes from your own post.
You said:

Because according to Islamic teachings Prophet Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم was the last messenger. He received revelation from Allah as did the prophet Moses عليه السلام and Jesus عليه السلام and Abraham عليه السلام.

The revelation he received confirm the Torah that Moses عليه السلام received and the Gospel that Jesus عليه السلام received.
Post #7 https://debatepolitics.com/threads/...the-quran-came-from-the-abrahamic-god.418837/



THE REVELATION CONFIRMS!

It means, the teachings in the New Testament (GOSPEL), has been validated by Allah to Mohammad to be true!

Let's repeat that:



the teachings in the New Testament (GOSPEL), has been validated by Allah to Mohammad
to be true
!




If the revelation confirms the Gospel that Jesus received -

how come Islam doesn't believe
Jesus is the Son of God?




God had sent His only begotten Son to die for our sins.
The Gospel teaches the most important message for salvation - THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!

If the Gospel has been confirmed by Allah - why do you not believe?
The Gospel teaches that Jesus Christ is the ONLY WAY to salvation.



WHY AREN'T YOU A CHRISTIAN?
 
Last edited:

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Did Jesus receive the new testament as it is on your bookshelf?
Yes. I know where you're trying to go with this: the main message of the Bible is consistent in all reputable translations!


So many supporting documents that show Jesus Christ is the prophesied Messiah. Even the Dead Sea scrolls had provided some collaborations on this even though Jesus Christ wasn't mentioned at all!


For example, a list of miracles appears in both Luke 7:21–22 of the New Testament and the Dead Sea Scroll known as the Messianic Apocalypse (4Q521). In Luke 7, Jesus gives these miracles to the disciples of John the Baptist as proof that he is the messiah. In the Messianic Apocalypse, which was written approximately 150 years before Luke’s Gospel, the Lord is the one who will perform these miracles. The source for both of these lists is Isaiah chapters 35 and 61. While not all of the same miracles appear in Luke 7 and the Messianic Apocalypse, the miracles that do appear in both are listed in the same order (see chart).


The curious thing is that not all of these miracles, such as “raising the dead,” appear in the passages from Isaiah, which were the source material for the lists—the prophecies being fulfilled. Yet the miracle of “raising the dead” appears in both Luke 7 and the Messianic Apocalypse right before bringing “good news to the poor.” Rather than suggesting that the writer of Luke 7 copied from—or was even aware of—the Messianic Apocalypse, this similarity suggests that both groups shared certain “interpretive and theological traditions on which writers in both communities drew.”





It is your Quran that's purely man-made. It has obviously lifted from some of the Bible events/narratives and mixed in whatever Mohammad claimed - thus we see the results of a very convoluted book.


Just read post #8 again.
Who is "WE?"
 
Last edited:

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
Yes. I know where you're trying to go with this: the main message of the Bible is consistent in all reputable translations!

It is your Quran that's purely man-made. It has obviously lifted from some of the Bible events/narrative and mixed in whatever Mohammad claimed - thus we see the results of a very convoluted book.


Just read post #8 again.
Who is "WE?"
I don't think you know where I am going. The Quran says Jesus عليه السلام was given the Gospel. You say it means the Quran confirms the New Testament. So is it then that you think the New Testament is what was given to Jesus عليه السلام?

 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I don't think you know where I am going. The Quran says Jesus عليه السلام was given the Gospel. You say it means the Quran confirms the New Testament. So is it then that you think the New Testament is what was given to Jesus عليه السلام?

Lol. How did we know about Jesus if not for the New Testament?

But - this thread is not about the critique of Christianity. This is about the Quran. Let's not distract from that.


Let's get back to the Quran. All you rely on is the claim of Mohammad.


GIVE US SOMETHING CREDIBLE THAT SUPPORTS MOHAMMAD'S CLAIM.
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
Lol. How did we know about Jesus if not for the New Testament?

But - this thread is not about the critique of Christianity. This is about the Quran. Let's not distract from that.


Let's get back to the Quran. All you rely on is the claim of Mohammad.


GIVE US SOMETHING CREDIBLE THAT SUPPORTS MOHAMMAD'S CLAIM.
No no.. 😌 This was in reply to your argument. You should finish what you started.
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
No no.. 😌 This was in reply to your argument. You should finish what you started.


Out of courtesy, I did give an answer - and now, I want to bring the thread back on topic.


BACK TO THE QURAN!

You have not answered some of the contradictions given. Like:

Who is..........."WE?"

and....

GIVE US SOMETHING CREDIBLE THAT SUPPORTS MOHAMMAD'S CLAIM.




Since I graciously answered your question (even if it's irrelevant to this topic), now - it's your turn to answer.
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
Out of courtesy, I did give an answer - and now, I want to bring the thread back on topic.
:rolleyes: I must have missed the question, answer and even the topic itself. 🤨
Anyway...
You have not answered some of the contradictions given. Like:

Who is..........."WE?"
At first I thought that was an argument too dumb for me to answer, but then I, on post #18 courteously linked a Wikipedia article on the topic:
GIVE US SOMETHING CREDIBLE THAT SUPPORTS MOHAMMAD'S CLAIM.
Sorry — which claim are we currently talking about?
 

Valery

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 26, 2020
Messages
1,566
Reaction score
104
I have ignored you as a whole because you have strayed from appropriate language.
And you should apply that to yourself. You said, "The Quran says Iblis is a jinn", but you have ignored all requests to tell us the verse number.
 

tosca1

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2013
Messages
20,610
Reaction score
2,706
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
That doesn't say he was an angel. :rolleyes:

Here's another verse with "we."

S. 21:30
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?


Did I imply in any way that it was an angel? Lol.

To even suggest "we" means God and angels......would be stupid!


Who is "WE?"


The way "WE" is used indicate that whoever "WE" are - they're all in equal footing with one another! They're all CREATORS.
.....and, according to the Quran, they're all......."separators." :LOL:


Logic dictates that if there is only ONE GOD - there can't be several SEPARATE entities with equal footing with God!



Therefore, either "WE" refers to the Biblical TRIUNE GOD (3-in-One).......... or...................you have several gods!



Whoever is mentioned in the Quran as "WE," MUST BE ALL ONE AND THE SAME = ONE GOD!

If not.......................... then Islam is POLYTHEISTIC!
That's a big contradiction to your claim that Islam is monotheistic!



So, what are you? Monotheistic or polytheistic?
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom