• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Contagion hits Portugal as Ireland dithers on rescue

How many europeans compared to Canadians and Americans are there in Central America?

Officially, I have no idea. I can only go by observation.

There are many Germans, Dutch, Italians,Swiss and more arriving from France. I don't see many Brits and only a few Scandinavians.
 
You see, that is why France has made cuts to its pension system already, it already has rationed health care, just like every country including the US has

Every country with Socialized health care certainly. If there is free enterprise there is no health rationing..
 
Every country with Socialized health care certainly. If there is free enterprise there is no health rationing..

Health is rationed on the basis of affordability, public or private. Affordability is contingent on the genetic lottery, pre-existing conditions and lifestyle choices when it comes to insurance.
 
Health is rationed on the basis of affordability, public or private. Affordability is contingent on the genetic lottery, pre-existing conditions and lifestyle choices when it comes to insurance.

Of course free enterprise will include affordibility, as well as competition. And it is this competition which effects affordibility.
 
Every country with Socialized health care certainly. If there is free enterprise there is no health rationing..

If a person has to go without health care that he or she needs, is it not rationing

It does not matter that it might be from a publically funded health system, or from a privately funded on. In all case health care is rationed on what is affordable to the payer. HMO`s will dissallow procedures, a government will delay services or dissalllow certain services, people may go without heart surgery, or medication they cant afford to buy. All of that is rationing
 
Officially, I have no idea. I can only go by observation.

There are many Germans, Dutch, Italians,Swiss and more arriving from France. I don't see many Brits and only a few Scandinavians.

In comparision to your observations which group is large North Americans or Europeans
 
Every country with Socialized health care certainly. If there is free enterprise there is no health rationing..

LOL that is the biggest load of bs you have said in a while.

Every country but 3 in the democratic world has one form of "Socialized health care" or another. The US, Swiss and Chile have a private system and they all are much more expensive and have at best the same results.

As free enterprise meaning no health rationing.. on what planet and in what universe?
 
If a person has to go without health care that he or she needs, is it not rationing

Well yes, there might be no doctors available, etc, but there is certainly rationing wherever there is socialized medicine. Perhaps other words than "rationing" will be used but it all comes down to the system being unable to pay for all those who demand the government supply their health care at a standard they feel they need it.

It does not matter that it might be from a publically funded health system, or from a privately funded on. In all case health care is rationed on what is affordable to the payer.

Then that is called affordibility, not rationing.

MO`s will dissallow procedures, a government will delay services or dissalllow certain services, people may go without heart surgery, or medication they cant afford to buy. All of that is rationing

Sure. But if you have the money, as in a private system, you can ignore government rationing. Why would there be rationing under a private system?
 
In comparision to your observations which group is large North Americans or Europeans

Probably North Americans, though it often depends on where in particular because certain cultural groupd tend to stick together.
 
LOL that is the biggest load of bs you have said in a while.

Every country but 3 in the democratic world has one form of "Socialized health care" or another. The US, Swiss and Chile have a private system and they all are much more expensive and have at best the same results.

As free enterprise meaning no health rationing.. on what planet and in what universe?

The contagion is coming for you, bwuahahahahahaha. Break out your UHC card.

socialized-medicine.gif
 
Last edited:
LOL that is the biggest load of bs you have said in a while.

Every country but 3 in the democratic world has one form of "Socialized health care" or another. The US, Swiss and Chile have a private system and they all are much more expensive and have at best the same results.

As free enterprise meaning no health rationing.. on what planet and in what universe?

How does the US have a "Private System" when no one can be legally refused service from hospitals and the government spends many billions on Medicare?

As well, HMO's have distorted the cost of medical treatment as has over the top insurance claims. If there was actually free enterprise in the Untied States health care costs would fall dramatically, just as it works in other areas..
 
Well yes, there might be no doctors available, etc, but there is certainly rationing wherever there is socialized medicine. Perhaps other words than "rationing" will be used but it all comes down to the system being unable to pay for all those who demand the government supply their health care at a standard they feel they need it.



Then that is called affordibility, not rationing.



Sure. But if you have the money, as in a private system, you can ignore government rationing. Why would there be rationing under a private system?

Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office

Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system. If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing
 
Probably North Americans, though it often depends on where in particular because certain cultural groupd tend to stick together.

So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?
 
Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office

Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system. If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing
Profits can't be forced, taxes can.
 
So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?

Are you serious? Given the relative lack of minorities in Europe by comparison, how can you ask?
 
Because the private system does not have unlimited money, just as a public system does not have unlimited money. HMO's have to ration health care to ensure profitability. A governmnent has to ration to keep taxes at a rate that will not get them voted out of office

Who gave HMO's the right to manage Health care? In fact these HMO's were granted a monopoly by the governments where there wouldn't be any interstate competition. And the government is now creating an even bigger monopoly. Not only will it become unaffordable, it will eventually be rationed, as is already happening in some countries.. Health care was never rationed before big business and big government came along..

Both systems have to limit the amount of medical services in order for the systems to be affordable for the taxpayers, or the members of the private system.

How is the private care being rationed? It is not and never has been.
If you have to make a choice between paying rent or paying for insulin you have to ration something, it does not matter if you are in the private or public system. The only difference is who is choosing what to ration and who is being effected by the rationing

That's not rationing, that's budgeting.
 
So white flight is occuring in larger numbers from the US and Canada then from Europe from your observations?

To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.
 
Are you serious? Given the relative lack of minorities in Europe by comparison, how can you ask?

I think it's the old "everything's all right, Jack" attitude, and a matter of serious denial. And because these opinions and attitudes were based on faith rather than reality , giving them up is a great deal more difficult.

Those who do leave Western European countries will be called 'traitors', 'rats' etc, but in fact they are realists, who never voted for all this government largess or immigration systems, and also aren't willing to pay for the fiscal and social costs. They can see the very clear writing on the wall.
 
To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.

It really does go both ways. I was in Dubai recently, a hypercapitalist society if there is one, which was full of young Europeans and Americans keen to live tax free and make money they couldn't dream of back home. A lot of them are now going back home with their tails between their legs after losing out on the property market and associated sectors. There is no social safety net, so the idea that people will settle and raise families in these places is dubious. Maybe they thought its easy money and the next wave will be substantially more talented and capable of surviving in that dog eat dog society. Time will tell.

I have no idea what New Zealand offers however. It is a typically British cultural trait to emigrate though, since the days it was the worlds pre-eminent power.
 
Who gave HMO's the right to manage Health care? In fact these HMO's were granted a monopoly by the governments where there wouldn't be any interstate competition. And the government is now creating an even bigger monopoly. Not only will it become unaffordable, it will eventually be rationed, as is already happening in some countries.. Health care was never rationed before big business and big government came along..


How is the private care being rationed? It is not and never has been

That's not rationing, that's budgeting.
Budgetting is RATIONING

Money is part of a budget and as it is not unlimited it is rationed in the way it is spent. A certain amount on health care, a certain amount on housing a certain amount on food. If a pêrson does not have th funds for health care because they spent the money on food instead, health care was rationed, due to affordability
 
How does the US have a "Private System" when no one can be legally refused service from hospitals and the government spends many billions on Medicare?

Because most of your insurance is private based as most of the hospital sector. It is for profit, not for the people.

As well, HMO's have distorted the cost of medical treatment as has over the top insurance claims. If there was actually free enterprise in the Untied States health care costs would fall dramatically, just as it works in other areas..

It is only distorted because there is no regulation to prevent HMO's running the system for massive profits. As for thinking that free enterprise will make things cheaper.... I cant name many industries where that is actually true, since there is very few industries where there is free enterprise, especially in the US. Maybe the car industry, but then again that is back stopped by the US government. Maybe food sales, but then again here bulk is king and it has concentrated on few big sellers.. hardly good for free enterprise.
 
To Central America, yes. In other parts of the world, no.

I was speaking recently to a friend in New Zealand and asked how the real estate market was. He said there wouldn't be any of it wasn't for the English.

If you are genuinely interested in the subject you can google white flight, and related topics.

It is nothing new. If it was not for immigrating Brits, then Canada and the US would never have existed :)

But there is also quite a bit of immigration of Brits back to the UK due to the economic crisis world wide. Dubai, Spain, Italy, France and so on have seen a decrease in Brits on average because of the economic crisis.
 
It is nothing new. If it was not for immigrating Brits, then Canada and the US would never have existed :)

But there is also quite a bit of immigration of Brits back to the UK due to the economic crisis world wide. Dubai, Spain, Italy, France and so on have seen a decrease in Brits on average because of the economic crisis.

Do you have any links supporting these claims?
 
Because most of your insurance is private based as most of the hospital sector. It is for profit, not for the people.

Why do you claim that because it is for "profit" it is not for "the people"? Where is the rationale in this?

Do you feel governments are better suited to deliver services than the private sector?



It is only distorted because there is no regulation to prevent HMO's running the system for massive profits.

That's right, and it's largely because these HMO's were given monoploies in certain areas and rigorous competition, thanks to the government, was not allowed.

As for thinking that free enterprise will make things cheaper.... I cant name many industries where that is actually true, since there is very few industries where there is free enterprise, especially in the US. Maybe the car industry, but then again that is back stopped by the US government. Maybe food sales, but then again here bulk is king and it has concentrated on few big sellers.. hardly good for free enterprise.

You claim that free enterprise does not necessarily make things cheaper and then go on to mention government involvement as to why things aren't less expensive. Lobbyists will always try to get their industry protected somehow because everyone, including governments, want to monopolize their power. It makes things a great deal easier for them as they needn't bother with any pesky competition. But of course it is bad for the consumer and monopolies by anyone must be resisted.
 
Budgetting is RATIONING

Money is part of a budget and as it is not unlimited it is rationed in the way it is spent. A certain amount on health care, a certain amount on housing a certain amount on food. If a pêrson does not have th funds for health care because they spent the money on food instead, health care was rationed, due to affordability

No, Lord Tammerlain, budgeting is not rationing.

Budgeting allows freedom of choice as to where we might spend our money, while rationing is imposed.
 
Back
Top Bottom