Constitutional Flaws

[DataPoint]

Nope> The "bad idea" was getting away from representative government and displacing the constitution. It is not a coincidence that the country is going bankrupt at a faster and faster pace as we move away from the original intent (the actual text of the constitution) and slid down the slippery slope into the quagmire of socialism. * and all the politicians getting rich along the way.

The Soviet Union had "1 man 1 vote" Democracy. In fact the word is prominently displayed in Marx manifesto. "We must win the war OF democracy" ....not, as the liberal media and left wing government wants us to believe "against democracy". Remember Ted Kennedy words? "Ronald Reagan is a bigger threat to us that The Soviet Union", on the Senate floor.

17th amendment was a big step to eliminating the states as separate entities (pathway to communism, which is one big central government controlling everything) by cutting the states out of the loop. Did ya notice they changed the Senate to popular vote, but left them with 6 year terms? I am guessing you have no idea why the founders gave the Senate longer terms than the house.

Creating the Fed, eliminating money and transferring all powers from "the states and the people respectively" (10th amendment) to the central gov. (No reason to call the Federal anymore.)

The series of fake "racist cop" stories is another step. The goal , obviously is to nationalize all police just like NAZIs, commies....all socialist countries have. That and disarming all Americans is pretty much the only remaining steps to totalitarian control.

*Thanks, liberals for helping them along.

More than 1/2 of the above is flat wrong, and the other is deliberately skewed or a non sequitur.

 

[DataPoint]

Another interesting question.

Why did the gov. hand out money to SS recips, gov. employees, many many people who did not lose a penny of income during the fony "pandemic"? Why didnt they just send it to the small businesses that all those corrupt governors ordered shut down? Handouts, vote buying schemes... "to he(( with the country", eh what?

From BING search:
'While more than 26 million Americans who don't file taxes did receive a payment, including over five million Americans who followed guidance from the IRS and registered online to receive a stimulus check, there are still an estimated 8.7 million or more Americans who are eligible but haven’t been identified by the IRS, the GAO report found.'

Ask Trump and his Secretary of the Treasury.

 

[Darien100]

Ask Trump and his Secretary of the Treasury.

I cud ask Biden, Obama.....any of them. Why just Trump?

Why didnt Nancy Pelosi just refuse to fund it? Remember her claim as soon as the Repubs handed over the house to her?

"Trump cant spend a penny unless I approve it"...referring to the wall but the same applies to ALL spending.

*** Note: Pelosi didnt apply the same logic to spending for the wall around her mansions, or the wall around the capitol in response to the complaints from voters about Biden and election fraud?

 

[Rich2018]

The "bad idea" was getting away from representative government and displacing the constitution. It is not a coincidence that the country is going bankrupt at a faster and faster pace as we move away from the original intent (the actual text of the constitution) and slid down the slippery slope into the quagmire of socialism. * and all the politicians getting rich along the way.

When did we "get away" from representative government ?
The move to directly elect senators was a move towards greater representative democracy

The Soviet Union had "1 man 1 vote" Democracy. In fact the word is prominently displayed in Marx manifesto. "We must win the war OF democracy" ....not, as the liberal media and left wing government wants us to believe "against democracy". Remember Ted Kennedy words? "Ronald Reagan is a bigger threat to us that The Soviet Union", on the Senate floor.

No, I don't recall those words, nor what they could possibly mean

And the Soviet Union did not have one man, one vote democracy
It had the faux democracy of a one party state

17th amendment was a big step to eliminating the states as separate entities (pathway to communism, which is one big central government controlling everything) by cutting the states out of the loop.

I suspect you don't know what "communism" is
It has nothing to do with how much political autonomy a central government relinquishes to its provinces

The 17th Amendment in no way was a step towards eliminating the states as separate entities. It was a long time ago, yet the states still exist, and if anything, still have too much power

Did ya notice they changed the Senate to popular vote, but left them with 6 year terms? I am guessing you have no idea why the founders gave the Senate longer terms than the house.

Yes, their terms should be shortened to 4 years and the terms of congressmen lengthened to 4 years and all be up for election the same day the president/VP is

Creating the Fed, eliminating money and transferring all powers from "the states and the people respectively" (10th amendment) to the central gov. (No reason to call the Federal anymore.)

???
Sorry, but you're not making any sense here

The series of fake "racist cop" stories is another step. The goal , obviously is to nationalize all police just like NAZIs, commies....all socialist countries have.

Which stories do you claim are "fake" - please give one or two examples
US police have a homicidal reputation and kill more people that anywhere else in the world

Where is your evidence of this "goal" ?
(other than just your opinion)

Nazi Germany was a federal republic Btw, with each state having its own state police force
The USSR was also a federation of republics, again with each republic organizing its own police force

Your use of the word "commies" betrays a child-like prejudice

That and disarming all Americans is pretty much the only remaining steps to totalitarian control.

Disarming the people (gun control) is nothing like totalitarian control. Not even close
The UK has banned most guns, yet is still capable of giving the USA a lesson or two in democracy

*Thanks, liberals for helping them along.

You have liberals to thank for your Constitution Btw
Liberals support and advance democracy
Conservatives - like Hitler, Stalin, Mao and dare I say Trump - are its biggest enemy.

Another interesting question.

Why did the gov. hand out money to SS recips, gov. employees, many many people who did not lose a penny of income during the fony "pandemic"?

*Phoney
Are you actually saying that COVID-19 doesn't exist ?
So China is not responsible for anything ?
Hundreds of thousands of corpses disagree with you - guessing you've not had your vaccine yet. If so please stay away from healthy people will you ?

Where is your evidence of the government handing out SS payments to government employees "who haven't lost a penny". Or are you talking about the stimulus checks ? ?

From BING search:
'While more than 26 million Americans who don't file taxes did receive a payment, including over five million Americans who followed guidance from the IRS and registered online to receive a stimulus check, there are still an estimated 8.7 million or more Americans who are eligible but haven’t been identified by the IRS, the GAO report found.'

So you want the government to issue more checks ?

 

[Darien100]

???
Sorry, but you're not making any sense here

I can tell from your responses you have no idea about.....anything. Just, whatever the tube tells you.....must be the truth.

This thread is about constitutional flaws. If you have never studied the Founders, what they wrote and said (clearly you have not) and the actual text of the constitution then you're just parroting what someone else told you and not really very persuasive at that.

Ever heard of Department of Education? Dept of transportation? Dept of Health.....?
The Brady Bill? Obamacare? Even abortion.

Article 1 Sec 8 constitution ......"Congress shall have the power to......" Only place that phrase appears, followed by a very short, very specific list of powers (not really power over you but mostly services, like delivering mail, insuring patents....., COINING money (not printing)....and on.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Funny thing is i cant seem to find them either.

Question> Can you name a single power of government that still falls under the 10th amendment?

*** As for Senate terms. Why not 2 years? Matters not, the crafters of the amendment were careful to protect Senators from the voters as long as they cud. Remember the aftermath of Obamacare? Dems lost the House
in overwhelming ###s. But not the Senate. The creeps got 2 to 4 more years to keep voting against the interest of the country.

Clue: Senate had 6 year terms because the state governments cud remove them any time they wanted so it wasnt a problem. 17th Am. took the states voice out of the arena for determining central gov. lawmaking. Hardly a coincidence that the 10th amendment has been eroded away ever sence. Now the states are just lines on a map. EVERY issue is determined at the central command level, just like Russia.

 

[DataPoint]

Rich2018 owns the floor of this debate.

America has pivoted and will not let Trumpkins destroy her democracy.

 

[Darien100]

Rich2018 owns the floor of this debate.

America has pivoted and will not let Trumpkins destroy her democracy.

The floor is about it.

Dont have to worry about that. Government is destroying it for you. Ever read anything the Founders ever wrote about "Democracy"?

Being controlled by an electronic viewing device without ever questioning it is a sad way to follow the"leaders" off the cliff.

Show of hands.
How many here still believe the politicians are working 5 or 6 jobs to pay for all the free stuff they are promising you? Lets vote on it. Democracy, right?

 

[Rich2018]

I can tell from your responses you have no idea about.....anything

I seriously doubt that your powers of perception amount to much

This thread is about constitutional flaws. If you have never studied the Founders, what they wrote and said (clearly you have not) and the actual text of the constitution then you're just parroting what someone else told you...

What evidence do you have for a "clear perception" - specifically about the text of the Constitution
When you're done with your slander, perhaps you might articulate your thoughts into coherent English, that is if it is within your compass to do so

Ever heard of Department of Education? Dept of transportation? Dept of Health.....?
The Brady Bill? Obamacare? Even abortion.

Yes

Article 1 Sec 8 constitution ......"Congress shall have the power to......"

And these powers have been liberally interpreted over the years

COINING money (not printing)

Case in point, and a glaring misunderstanding on your part:

"Section 8 permits Congress to coin money and to regulate its value. ... Section 10 denies states the right to coin or to print their own money. The framers clearly intended a national monetary system based on coin and for the power to regulate that system to rest only with the federal government."

usa congress, contitutional right, prining, coining money - Google Search

www.google.com

What were you saying about never having studied the founders' writings or the text of the Constitution ?
The founders' mistake in not foreseeing the need for paper money is yet another Constitutional flaw

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

Funny thing is i cant seem to find them either.

Possibly because you're ignorant about Constitutional law - tell me, what is an "objects of benevolence" ?

Can you name a single power of government that still falls under the 10th amendment?

No
But can you ?

As for Senate terms. Why not 2 years?

Because it is a recipe for political inertia
2 years is far too short a period for any political office. Current House members, who were just elected last year, are already compelled to divert their attention to re-election next year, not the job we pay them to do

Matters not, the crafters of the amendment were careful to protect Senators from the voters as long as they cud.

*Could

Remember the aftermath of Obamacare? Dems lost the House

So what ?
It was a good policy

in overwhelming ###s. But not the Senate. The creeps got 2 to 4 more years to keep voting against the interest of the country.

You betray your infantile grasp of politics. I'm guessing you're very young and think that liberalism and social justice are evil spells, that Democrat Demons whisper in dark places

Senate had 6 year terms because the state governments cud remove them any time they wanted so it wasnt a problem. 17th Am. took the states voice out of the arena for determining central gov. lawmaking. Hardly a coincidence that the 10th amendment has been eroded away ever sence. Now the states are just lines on a map. EVERY issue is determined at the central command level, just like Russia.

*Could

Why is a 6 year term necessary, because states could remove senators at any time ?

The 17th Amendment fixed a definite constitutional flaw in American democracy, you might want politicians, unaccountable to the people, I don't.

 

[DataPoint]

The floor is about it.

Dont have to worry about that. Government is destroying it for you. Ever read anything the Founders ever wrote about "Democracy"?

Being controlled by an electronic viewing device without ever questioning it is a sad way to follow the"leaders" off the cliff.

Show of hands.
How many here still believe the politicians are working 5 or 6 jobs to pay for all the free stuff they are promising you? Lets vote on it. Democracy, right?

View attachment 67335254

Speak for yourself, Darien. You do not have a clue about the rest of us.

 

[Rich2018]

Speak for yourself, Darien. You do not have a clue about the rest of us.

You were right with: "You do not have a clue"

 

[DataPoint]

You were right with: "You do not have a clue"

Yes, in reference that you, too, Rich, don't have a clue. You are so lost.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, in reference that you, too, Rich, don't have a clue. You are so lost.

Oh really ?

Please can you give examples of how you perceive that, so that I might might my way ?

 

[DataPoint]

Oh really ?

Please can you give examples of how you perceive that, so that I might might my way ?

So easily. Everyone can read the proof of that in your postings. And, no, you won't correct it, because you are a Trump cultist. Evidence need not apply.

I am interested, however, in your thinking about "flaws" in the Constitution. What is the one most important part of the Constitution that you think is flawed and should be changed (and to what)?

 

[Rich2018]

So easily. Everyone can read the proof of that in your postings. And, no, you won't correct it, because you are a Trump cultist. Evidence need not apply.

So easily...except you can't do it

What evidence do you have that I'm a "Trump cultist" ?
Which I find laughable in the extreme, since my posts are highly critical of him*, proving that you're not actually reading posts...and consequently your attempts to show this "Trump cultism" are as fruitless as your inability to show cluelessness

So might I suggest you drop the slander and refrain from talking about things, of which you know nothing

*to say the least

I am interested, however, in your thinking about "flaws" in the Constitution. What is the one most important part of the Constitution that you think is flawed and should be changed (and to what)?

Biggest flaw is the failure to divorce the offices of head of state and head of government

The USA is virtually alone in combining them, amongst the world's democracies - which all chose a parliamentary style of government (with a prime minister (or similar figure) as head of government and a constitutional monarch or president as head of state
(France maintains an awkward hybrid system)

Most of the world's tin pot dictators elect for the US presidential style of government.

 

[DataPoint]

Yes, the offices of head of state and head of government should be divided, imo, for the reasons you give.

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, the offices of head of state and head of government should be divided, imo, for the reasons you give.

Someone like Trump, would never challenge democracy in a parliamentary style of government.

 

[Vadinho]

There is a reason no other nation on the planet copied our Constitution when drafting one for themselves. Every single state in the union has a more fair and democratic state constitution than our federal one. Why? Because there is no longer any justification for a government created to appease slave holding states.

 

[Rich2018]

There is a reason no other nation on the planet copied our Constitution when drafting one for themselves. Every single state in the union has a more fair and democratic state constitution than our federal one. Why? Because there is no longer any justification for a government created to appease slave holding states.

So the US Constitution needs to be torn up and re-written from scratch ?

 

[Vadinho]

So the US Constitution needs to be torn up and re-written from scratch ?

I wish we could modify it but I have zero confidence in our nation's ability to think beyond ideology at this point. There are academics and serious thinkers that would put the nation above personal gain or bias but any new convention would not include them or at best marginalize them to the point of uselessness. Instead we would see Mark Levin types and Federalist Society plants with a few token liberals thrown in to make it appear fair. Lets start with the amendment process first. If the nation could be convinced that we need to make it easier to amend the constitution then perhaps we can use the current setup for real progress. That would demand that small powerful states think about the nation instead of themselves. That is a tall task.

 

[iguanaman]

when that disrespect for laws and traditions leads them to circumvent the laws in order to persue power via the ballot box, the ballot box is no longer the remedy.

What caused the one term mistake to disrespect his country so much that he colluded with a foreign adversary for help in his election? Don't say that is not true because we have the Mueller report and a bipartisan Senate report that both show evidence of collusion including the transfer of internal polling data to a Russian agent to help Russian trolls target voters in the 2016 election.

 

[Rich2018]

I wish we could modify it but I have zero confidence in our nation's ability to think beyond ideology at this point. There are academics and serious thinkers that would put the nation above personal gain or bias but any new convention would not include them or at best marginalize them to the point of uselessness. Instead we would see Mark Levin types and Federalist Society plants with a few token liberals thrown in to make it appear fair. Lets start with the amendment process first. If the nation could be convinced that we need to make it easier to amend the constitution then perhaps we can use the current setup for real progress. That would demand that small powerful states think about the nation instead of themselves. That is a tall task.

The quickest and best solution would be to replace the current system, with a parliamentary system. This would remove all the constitutional problems we have.

 

[Vadinho]

The quickest and best solution would be to replace the current system, with a parliamentary system. This would remove all the constitutional problems we have.

I agree but we both know that will never happen.

 

[Rich2018]

I agree but we both know that will never happen.

No, it'll need a cataclysmic event, like those that have seen France move to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and finally the 5th republic.

 

[Vadinho]

No, it'll need a cataclysmic event, like those that have seen France move to their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and finally the 5th republic.

OK, I am game. What would it take?

 

[smallvoice]

Franklin was wrong, the US presidential style of government is flawed - as recent events have shown

It should be replaced by a parliamentary style of government that divorces the offices oh head of state and head of government.

Move to the UK.