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Constitutional Convention Preamble[W:425]

because you keep believing people are equal, yet you believe you can take from other people what you want to create what you want.

look at sangha...he just stated we should live by majority rule, and 51% should dictate to the 49%

Yep, far superior system than one where only the rich can enjoy having a health care system, educational system etc..That would be your system.
 
no... you can enjoy healthcare to, if you pay for it like they do.

No, a large problem we had prior to our nationalized system is that some people either went without or ended up bankrupt and/or losing nearly everything because they couldn't afford it. That was a crappy system. Also, it was a very expensive system.
 
No, a large problem we had prior to our nationalized system is that some people either went without or ended up bankrupt and/or losing nearly everything because they couldn't afford it. That was a crappy system. Also, it was a very expensive system.

ok, but that does not delegate any power because you dont like the system.

people talk about rights and equality, its another thing to live them
 
ok, but that does not delegate any power because you dont like the system.

people talk about rights and equality, its another thing to live them

That' why I like Sanga's preamble where he specifically mentions health so people don't have to bicker about the interpretation of the welfare of its citizens.
 
That' why I like Sanga's preamble where he specifically mentions health so people don't have to bicker about the interpretation of the welfare of its citizens.

yes i know, his preamble is a national government style preamble, which deals in the personal life's of the people.

a federal government style preamble is going to talk about powers the federal government has external on the union, which does not involve the life's of the people.
 
yes i know, his preamble is a national government style preamble, which deals in the personal life's of the people.

a federal government style preamble is going to talk about powers the federal government has external on the union, which does not involve the life's of the people.

YOu mean the general welfare of the people?
 
That is what is means.

no it does not, if you look at article 1 section 8 of the constitution, which are the powers of congress, none of those powers have anything to do with the personal life's of the people.

the powers, are powers for the union as a whole, external on the union.
 
no it does not, if you look at article 1 section 8 of the constitution, which are the powers of congress, none of those powers have anything to do with the personal life's of the people.

the powers, are powers for the union as a whole, external on the union.

So, it not providing justice and/or protections for the people either?
 
So, it not providing justice and/or protections for the people either?

are their powers to give people food, water, housing, clothes, ..........make laws for your land, for your body...no, they do not exist in the powers of congress.

when the federal government fought a war against japan, they were working for the general welfare by protecting all of the people from japan's aggression





The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;


To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 
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are their powers to give people food, water, housing, clothes, ..........make laws for your land, for your body...no, they do not exist in the powers of congress.

when the federal government fought a war against japan, they were working for the general welfare by protecting all of the people from japan's aggression





The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;


To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.


Yep, the Unite State's people. That is why we have taxes.
 
Yep, the Unite State's people. That is why we have taxes.

sorry, if you are looking at clause 1....the Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

these are taxes placed on states, not the people.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

there are no powers in article 1 section 8 in the personal life's of the people
 
sorry, if you are looking at clause 1....the Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises,

these are taxes placed on states, not the people.

Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons. The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct. The Number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty Thousand, but each State shall have at Least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to chuse three, Massachusetts eight, Rhode-Island and Providence Plantations one, Connecticut five, New-York six, New Jersey four, Pennsylvania eight, Delaware one, Maryland six, Virginia ten, North Carolina five, South Carolina five, and Georgia three.

there are no powers in article 1 section 8 in the personal life's of the people

You can't provide rights to inanimate objects. You can logically infer it means for the people who make up the state.
 
You can't provide rights to inanimate objects. You can logically infer it means for the people who make up the state.

who is getting provided with a right...in my post?

if that were the case [of inferring] the federal government would have NEVER been limited,.... but it is limited.

because the powers which concern the people, and going to be the powers in the most abundance, however the powers which concern the life's liberty and property of the people, are states powers

JAMES MADISON- The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.
 
who is getting provided with a right...in my post?

if that were the case [of inferring] the federal government would have NEVER been limited,.... but it is limited.

because the powers which concern the people, and going to be the powers in the most abundance, however the powers which concern the life's liberty and property of the people, are states powers

JAMES MADISON- The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The state cannot survive and thrive with an uneducated populace (workforce). Providing for something like public education is not at all in conflict with Madison's statement.
 
The state cannot survive and thrive with an uneducated populace (workforce). Providing for something like public education is not at all in conflict with Madison's statement.

did not say it was in conflict.

state governments can create things for the people because they are not limited, however the money they receive needs to be by voluntarily consent thru commerce, not by forced taxation which violates people rights.
 
did not say it was in conflict.

state governments can create things for the people because they are not limited, however the money they receive needs to be by voluntarily consent thru commerce, not by forced taxation which violates people rights.

I disagree. The lesson here is we need to make sure we understand what is meant when we are designing our own constitution on DP.
 
I disagree. The lesson here is we need to make sure we understand what is meant when we are designing our own constitution on DP.

when a person works on a job, ..he expels his time and labor, in return for those 2 things he creates wealth for himself, MONEY. money is property.

what is the purpose of the government?.....to secure property of every sort, this includes money people have worked for.

government is not protecting Money [ property] it steals if from the worker by force of law, and threaten imprisonment if they dont pay.


the understanding for the preamble is simple for DP


1 some people want to create a preamble which will have statements for the people, about them being cared for, that they WILL HAVE prosperity.

2 others want the preamble, to be about its original goal of our current Constitution, to exercise powers external on the union and stay out of the life's of the people.
 
That's not realistic.

Groups of people accomplish common goals through voluntary cooperation all the time. What, in particular, do you think people can't accomplish without taking from others to pay for it?
 
The state cannot survive and thrive with an uneducated populace (workforce). Providing for something like public education is not at all in conflict with Madison's statement.

You presume that public education has been present, and puts out a quality product. In both cases, it has often not.
 
Let's say that Smith and Jones go visit Brown and they say, "We think that we'd like to provide some free schooling, so we're going to take your money" Brown objects, and Smith says, "Okay, let's vote on it." Smith and Jones vote yea; Brown of course votes nay. Smith is an equal to Brown, and Jones is an equal to Brown. Despite the fact that Smith and Jones agree they'd like to take Browns money, the still have no right to do so.

They do, assuming Brown has agreed to a representational system.
 
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