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Conservatives Are Standing on the Wrong Side of History

I agree that the PPACA does not function in the same manner of UHC...but the purpose, the aim - and the redistribution that makes it possible - are similar enough to make them comparable.

Nonsense. PPACA addresses less than half of the uninsured and makes overall costs go up, not down. If it was a good deal it would have eliminated at least Medicaid and not expanded it. The bottom payment (2% of the FPL for a single person) is only about $230/year for a bronze PPACA exchange policy - which is almost free to the "customer" so adding that much more in tax payer subsidy should have been a no brainer. It was only the insurance lobby that refused to accept the poorest (which also just happen to be the sickest) into the PPACA exchange pool game. PPACA upped the cut off from 100% of the FPL to 133% for dumping poorer folks into Medicaid. Since this group was already mostly solid demorat voters, the greedy congress critters (encourage by the insurance lobbyists) left them "separarte but unequal" to wallow in the Medicaid system while "reallocating" Medicare funds as well.
 
Not according to the CIA.....

Most reports [from 1979] through 1988 on the course of the Soviet GNP and on general economic developments were equally satisfactory: accurate, illuminating, and timely. In fact, we find it hard to believe that anyone who has read the CIA's annual public reports on the state of the Soviet economy since 1975 could possibly interpret them as saying that the Soviet economy was booming. On the contrary, these reports regularly reported the steady decline in the Soviet growth rate and called attention to the deep and structural problems that pointed to continued decline and possibly to stagnation....

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...ons/csi-studies/studies/97unclass/soviet.html

That quote does not say the Soviet Union wasn't dangerous, in fact it strengthens my position. They were more dangerous than ever. Being on the brink of financial collapse meant they needed to expand and devour others wealth, the monster needed fed.
 
Nonsense. PPACA addresses less than half of the uninsured and makes overall costs go up, not down. If it was a good deal it would have eliminated at least Medicaid and not expanded it. The bottom payment (2% of the FPL for a single person) is only about $230/year for a bronze PPACA exchange policy - which is almost free to the "customer" so adding that much more in tax payer subsidy should have been a no brainer. It was only the insurance lobby that refused to accept the poorest (which also just happen to be the sickest) into the PPACA exchange pool game. PPACA upped the cut off from 100% of the FPL to 133% for dumping poorer folks into Medicaid. Since this group was already mostly solid demorat voters, the greedy congress critters (encourage by the insurance lobbyists) left them "separarte but unequal" to wallow in the Medicaid system while "reallocating" Medicare funds as well.

So tell me - given the same choice that we had then, what should we have done. We could not get the single-payer health care that most liberals certainly wanted, that is better for the population as a whole for far less than what we were paying. It would have been insane to allow our health care 'system' to continue as it was. The PPACA was a third choice in which, even though there will be millions who still won't have health insurance, millions more will - including my oldest son who, under the old system, would likely have been denied due to having a serious pre-existing condition.

The way I see it, we couldn't get what we wanted, because the Right - and a few blue-dog Democrats - deemed it too 'socialist'. We couldn't get single-payer passed. But it would have been the height of stupidity to allow our health care 'system' continue on as it was, with nearly fifty million Americans uninsured, many millions more underinsured, and many, many of those who were insured were denied coverage for procedures for a whole host of excuses by the oh-so-patriotic health insurance industry.

So instead of trying to get what we couldn't get, and instead of sticking with what was the worst excuse for a health care system in the industrialized world, we decided to give the REPUBLICAN plan a try - the half loaf of the PPACA was better than no loaf at all. But thanks to politics, especially from the Right which (since they dared not agree to ANYTHING Obama would ever do) could not agree to their OWN f**king program, the one designed by the Heritage Foundation and put into place in Massachusetts by the guy who was their friggin' standard-bearer.

Those were our three choices, guy - one that couldn't get passed, one that was unsustainable and unacceptable, and one that was half-measures on a grand scale. But at least the last option allows tens of millions of Americans to have health insurance they couldn't get before, and the ones who did have health insurance could no longer be denied.

If you've got a better idea, I'd LOVE to hear it!
 
That quote does not say the Soviet Union wasn't dangerous, in fact it strengthens my position. They were more dangerous than ever. Being on the brink of financial collapse meant they needed to expand and devour others wealth, the monster needed fed.
The Soviets were too bogged down in Afganistan to be dangerous to the US or any other western country. As a consequence they fell behind in oil production, technology, economic output...and the arms race. Reagan used the myth of Soviet superiority to increase defense spending to the likes of which this country has never seen. Today, the US economy and millions of Americans are totally dependent on military spending for their livlihoods.....just like the USSR was prior to it's downfall.
 
The Soviets were too bogged down in Afganistan to be dangerous to the US or any other western country. As a consequence they fell behind in oil production, economic output...and the arms race. Reagan used the myth of Soviet superiority to increase defense spending to the likes of which this country has never seen. Today, the US economy and millions of Americans are totally dependent on military spending for their livlihoods.....just like the USSR was prior to it's downfall.

Yes, defense spending increased, but as a percentage of GDP, it was and is much lower that it had been compared to historical norms...
 
You appear to be a sensible poster, so let me ask you a question. What ideas do you support that makes you a "progressive"?

I believe in equality for everyone - race, gender, ethnicity, religion, LGBT's. I support the Constitutional right to access to abortion. I believe we need things like single-payer health care. We can't ever get rid of all guns - Pandora's out of the box and she ain't gettin' back in - but we CAN have sensible gun control, like universal background checks, full registration, banning assault weapons and extended magazines. We need to get private money OUT of politics - completely out! We MUST address anthropogenic global warming. We need free education up through and including college (Germany's got a good example to follow). We need to slash our defense funding - beginning with MY beloved aircraft carriers (it's a retired Navy thing). My plan for stopping illegal immigration is the only one that will ever work - help make MEXICO's economy better (think about it - when our economy went south, we had zero net illegal immigration). Get rid of all the truly stupid voter-suppression efforts by the GOP. Strengthen the unions, ensure equal pay for equal work for women, all employees get thirty days off every year, and additional family leave for births and serious illnesses. We need to own up to the evil that we committed overseas - and those who authorized torture, up to and including the previous president, need to be standing in front of The Hague under war crimes charges. We need to end the war on drugs. That one family - the Waltons - should have more money than 40% of the ENTIRE American population is an obscenity. And I can go on and on.

NOW. Unlike most of today's conservatives, liberals and progressives do NOT require groupthink, that everyone must play the game of "I'm farther to the left than you". If one has a conservative viewpoint on one or two issues, that doesn't make one any less of a progressive - it is that tendency we have to think for ourselves that allows us to be truly liberal, truly progressive.

And here's the few issues where I depart from liberal viewpoints: I strongly support nuclear power - and I'm glad we have nuclear weapons. I think Manning and Snowden need to spend LONG years in jail. And I have no problem with the NSA.

If you are a liberal, but have a viewpoint or three that don't mesh with today's liberal opinions, that doesn't make you any less of a liberal - it makes you a free thinker...and it means that you aren't trying to be liberal or progressive, but it's the current meaning of those labels that most closely match what you believe.
 
I believe in equality for everyone - race, gender, ethnicity, religion, LGBT's. I support the Constitutional right to access to abortion. I believe we need things like single-payer health care. We can't ever get rid of all guns - Pandora's out of the box and she ain't gettin' back in - but we CAN have sensible gun control, like universal background checks, full registration, banning assault weapons and extended magazines. We need to get private money OUT of politics - completely out! We MUST address anthropogenic global warming. We need free education up through and including college (Germany's got a good example to follow). We need to slash our defense funding - beginning with MY beloved aircraft carriers (it's a retired Navy thing). My plan for stopping illegal immigration is the only one that will ever work - help make MEXICO's economy better (think about it - when our economy went south, we had zero net illegal immigration). Get rid of all the truly stupid voter-suppression efforts by the GOP. Strengthen the unions, ensure equal pay for equal work for women, all employees get thirty days off every year, and additional family leave for births and serious illnesses. We need to own up to the evil that we committed overseas - and those who authorized torture, up to and including the previous president, need to be standing in front of The Hague under war crimes charges. We need to end the war on drugs. That one family - the Waltons - should have more money than 40% of the ENTIRE American population is an obscenity. And I can go on and on.

NOW. Unlike most of today's conservatives, liberals and progressives do NOT require groupthink, that everyone must play the game of "I'm farther to the left than you". If one has a conservative viewpoint on one or two issues, that doesn't make one any less of a progressive - it is that tendency we have to think for ourselves that allows us to be truly liberal, truly progressive.

And here's the few issues where I depart from liberal viewpoints: I strongly support nuclear power - and I'm glad we have nuclear weapons. I think Manning and Snowden need to spend LONG years in jail. And I have no problem with the NSA.

If you are a liberal, but have a viewpoint or three that don't mesh with today's liberal opinions, that doesn't make you any less of a liberal - it makes you a free thinker...and it means that you aren't trying to be liberal or progressive, but it's the current meaning of those labels that most closely match what you believe.

Too much meat in the post to adequately respond this evening, but I will do so by PM in the next couple of days, so you don't have to monitor the thread, but when I do, feel free to make it public on this thread if you choose...
 
So tell me - given the same choice that we had then, what should we have done. We could not get the single-payer health care that most liberals certainly wanted, that is better for the population as a whole for far less than what we were paying. It would have been insane to allow our health care 'system' to continue as it was. The PPACA was a third choice in which, even though there will be millions who still won't have health insurance, millions more will - including my oldest son who, under the old system, would likely have been denied due to having a serious pre-existing condition.

The way I see it, we couldn't get what we wanted, because the Right - and a few blue-dog Democrats - deemed it too 'socialist'. We couldn't get single-payer passed. But it would have been the height of stupidity to allow our health care 'system' continue on as it was, with nearly fifty million Americans uninsured, many millions more underinsured, and many, many of those who were insured were denied coverage for procedures for a whole host of excuses by the oh-so-patriotic health insurance industry.

So instead of trying to get what we couldn't get, and instead of sticking with what was the worst excuse for a health care system in the industrialized world, we decided to give the REPUBLICAN plan a try - the half loaf of the PPACA was better than no loaf at all. But thanks to politics, especially from the Right which (since they dared not agree to ANYTHING Obama would ever do) could not agree to their OWN f**king program, the one designed by the Heritage Foundation and put into place in Massachusetts by the guy who was their friggin' standard-bearer.

Those were our three choices, guy - one that couldn't get passed, one that was unsustainable and unacceptable, and one that was half-measures on a grand scale. But at least the last option allows tens of millions of Americans to have health insurance they couldn't get before, and the ones who did have health insurance could no longer be denied.

If you've got a better idea, I'd LOVE to hear it!

Asside from the rediculous notion that PPACA is a republican idea that had 100% demorat votes and no republicant votes, you still fail to say why "anything" is better than no change at all, or making multiple separtate changes in single/related "problem areas".

Tax the employer provided insurance benefit as income to the employee, which is exacty what it is. That alone raises way more revenue than PPACA and is 100% constitutional per the 16th amendment. Limit the pre-existing condition penalty to one year coverage delay per year previously uninsured or at least as a serious cap on annual benefits for the previously uninsured (say no more than 300% of premiums paid) for that period of time. The idea that those without insurance can simply by it "as needed", paying premiums for a few months while getting many, many times over that in benefits is obviously not going to work, thus that goofy idea of an individual mandate (instead of allowing a simple penalty for periods uninsured). The problem with the individual mandate is that the fine is far lower than the cost of the cheapest possible policy allowed. Imagine if you could wait and until a vehicle theft or accident occured and then purchase full coverage auto insurance to help recover your added "investment", it would certainly save you lits money but totally defeats the very purpose of insurance which is a risk sharing pool.

As long as insurance is for the rare, unexpected and very expensive event it is relatively affordable, what PPACA wants to do is make insurance be used for every bit of medical care incliuding normal preventive, routine and elective procedures with no thought to people actually caring what that medical care actually costs. The horor of anyone having to pay $10/month "out of pocket" for birth control pills! That is what drives costs up. Imagine what auto insurance would cost if we mandated that it cover tune-ups, worn tire replacement and oil changes. Imagine what homeowners/renters insurance would cost if it covered lawn maintanence, replacing worn out furniture and periodic repainting. What PPACA seeks to do is ever more insulate users of medical care from the actual costs of that care - precisely the oppostie of keeping prices down via competition.

My suggestion for medical insurance is a high deductable (catastropic) policy coupled with a medical savings account (MSA), as your MSA balance rises/falls then increase/decrease your insurance deductable accordingly.
 
LMAO our Military spending is what turned us from a creditor nation to a debter nation thanks Ronnie and Republicans!!!
Do your remember the phrase "peace dividend"? Probably not if you're not of a certain age.

It was the name the Democrats gave to the money we would no longer be spending after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
The Soviet collapse was accelerated by them trying to match us militarily, which their economy wouldn't allow for. So they collapsed, years sooner because of our military spending.
The phrase is an acknowledgement of how expensive the cold war was and how much we saved by the accelerated pace of the USSR's bankruptcy.

The funny part was that just hours after the wall came down, the left wasn't talking about how our deficit could now be reduced, they were trying to decide how to spend the money.

If you don't remember this you don't know about it. It makes it pretty obvious that even our "history" isn't teaching about this era with any objectivity.
 
Conservatism is regressive, liberalism progressive. I don't see how this is a contentious idea.
 
The Soviets were too bogged down in Afganistan to be dangerous to the US or any other western country. As a consequence they fell behind in oil production, technology, economic output...and the arms race. Reagan used the myth of Soviet superiority to increase defense spending to the likes of which this country has never seen. Today, the US economy and millions of Americans are totally dependent on military spending for their livlihoods.....just like the USSR was prior to it's downfall.
Do you remember this or is this from reading?

Do you remember the REAL fear we had of Soviet influence in Nicaragua? Daniel Ortega? El Salvador?
This is similar to those who now say we shouldn't have dropped the bombs on Japan because "well, they would have lost eventually."
There was true fear in the 80's and that's the reality we had to respond to at the time. None of this comes across in reading about it now.

Being "bogged down" in Afghanistan didn't even slow them down. Their sphere was growing in Central America.
The crazy part is that several Democrat congressmen, because they were so opposed to Reagan, embraced it. But that's a topic for another thread.
 
While I believe there are many conservatives on the wrong side of history on social issues, there are liberals who are on the wrong side of spending. We have a HUGE debt in this country and the spending liberally needs to stop and a welfare state that needs serious reforms that liberals are not working on either.

Here are the years we had a Republican House with a Republican president ... I don't see where they ever cut spending ... ?

2000 1788.95
2001 1862.85
2002 2010.89
2003 2159.90
2004 2292.84
2005 2471.96
2006 2655.05


Seems to me that both parties spend.
 
Here are the years we had a Republican House with a Republican president ... I don't see where they ever cut spending ... ?

2000 1788.95
2001 1862.85
2002 2010.89
2003 2159.90
2004 2292.84
2005 2471.96
2006 2655.05


Seems to me that both parties spend.

Again, we are talking conservative and liberal here not GOP and Dem. Not every Dem is a liberal and not every GOP member is a conservative. However, fiscal responsibility is in fact a conservative value. Ever here the term, spend liberally? Spend conservatively?

BOTH sides are needed for a country to be successful. People need to quit the notion that Dem means liberal and Republican means conservative because that is NOT the case. Both the GOP and the Dems have collectively spent liberally.
 
Here are the years we had a Republican House with a Republican president ... I don't see where they ever cut spending ... ?

2000 1788.95
2001 1862.85
2002 2010.89
2003 2159.90
2004 2292.84
2005 2471.96
2006 2655.05


Seems to me that both parties spend.

I agree with your last statement. If both parties would keep federal spending below 20% of GDP, we will be fine. Unfortunately we've been far north of 20% for 5+ years now.

Tax revenue also rebounded after a recession with tax rate cuts at the same time.
2000 2025.2
2001 1991.1
2002 1853.1
2003 1782.3

2004 1880.1
2005 2153.6
2006 2406.9 <<--- Note: 2012 tax revenue was only 46b higher than 2006.
 
I agree with your last statement. If both parties would keep federal spending below 20% of GDP, we will be fine. Unfortunately we've been far north of 20% for 5+ years now.

Tax revenue also rebounded after a recession with tax rate cuts at the same time.
2000 2025.2
2001 1991.1
2002 1853.1
2003 1782.3

2004 1880.1
2005 2153.6
2006 2406.9 <<--- Note: 2012 tax revenue was only 46b higher than 2006.

The increase in tax revenue you point to in 2004-2006 was due to the housing bubble as it kicked into high gear before collapsing, not the tax cuts. You'll notice it the years where we had the cuts ... 2001, 2002, and 2003 ... revenue fell in each of those years.
 
The Soviets were too bogged down in Afganistan to be dangerous to the US or any other western country. As a consequence they fell behind in oil production, technology, economic output...and the arms race. Reagan used the myth of Soviet superiority to increase defense spending to the likes of which this country has never seen. Today, the US economy and millions of Americans are totally dependent on military spending for their livlihoods.....just like the USSR was prior to it's downfall.

Why do you think they were bogged down in Afghanistan? Who do you think armed the rebels so they would be bogged down?
 
The increase in tax revenue you point to in 2004-2006 was due to the housing bubble as it kicked into high gear before collapsing, not the tax cuts. You'll notice it the years where we had the cuts ... 2001, 2002, and 2003 ... revenue fell in each of those years.

That time frame also coincided with 2, albeit small, recessions, and the revenue pickup was from their recoveries. The cuts, while initiated during 01-03, were still in place for the next 8 years, so the revenue dip from 01-03 is explained by both the initiation of cuts as well as the recessions. I'm sure someone has an analysis for those 2 years to show the exact breakdown.
 
The 'good old days' weren't so good...and "that's the way it's always been" is never an acceptable excuse to resist the changes that can make it better. This is why I reject American conservatism and look forward to the better days ahead for everyone, whether rich or poor, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, religion, or sexual preference.

Life is not about Better or Worse. It's about Right and Wrong. The most wonderful technology is worthless if its use places one in the position to act immorally. Life has always been about what one SHOULD do, not what one CAN do. That is what so many of you Liberals miss.
 
The most wonderful technology is worthless if its use places one in the position to act immorally.

So then why are you on the computer, since with the computer you can access porn. Whether or not you do it is irrelevent, it puts you in a position to act immorally remember. It was good seeing you, too bad you won't be able to access online anymore.
 
So then why are you on the computer, since with the computer you can access porn. Whether or not you do it is irrelevent, it puts you in a position to act immorally remember. It was good seeing you, too bad you won't be able to access online anymore.

Probably not the best wording I've ever come up with. My point was that the technology needs to be measured against those risks and protected against them. To that end, I use software that filters out such reprehensible filth. Given the power, I'd take it all off the internet, make it illegal, and prosecute anyone who attempted to upload it to the fullest extent of the law. Likewise, who needs a passenger car that can go 100mph. A race car, sure. A passenger car, no. It's existance leads to problems because people cannot be trusted not to misuse it.
 
That time frame also coincided with 2, albeit small, recessions, and the revenue pickup was from their recoveries. The cuts, while initiated during 01-03, were still in place for the next 8 years, so the revenue dip from 01-03 is explained by both the initiation of cuts as well as the recessions. I'm sure someone has an analysis for those 2 years to show the exact breakdown.
There was only 1 recession I'm aware of -- fron 3/2001-11/2001. When was there a second recession?
 
There was only 1 recession I'm aware of -- fron 3/2001-11/2001. When was there a second recession?

The second dip in late 2002/early 2003 was what I was referring to, which was not considered a recession by the traditional definition. My mistake for stating that it was a recession.
 
You're wrong. Not only is some amount of conservatism always going to be around, it's necessary for a well functioning system (of anything be it politics or home life or economics or a computer program). The old saying that goes along with this is if it's not broke, don't fix it. If you have a process or tradition in place, and things aren't terrible, the cost of changing it is unknown. You may end up worse. And in a complex system, you can't ever really know the impact, so you have to proceed cautiously. You *must* create some threshold both in terms of intensity (like cost or number dead), and in time (be it number of incidents or number of years), that prevents the very dangerous and destructive process of changing everything that works, constantly, just because the new generation wants to make changes. You see this most often in those without power (The young often), who have everything to gain from disrupting a working process, economy, social hierarchy, etc., and nothing to lose. And those in power have their life's work to lose, so natural would resist constant cries for change based on little to no real evidence. Hate on conservatives for all the right reasons please. This unfortunately isn't one of them.
 
Life is not about Better or Worse. It's about Right and Wrong. The most wonderful technology is worthless if its use places one in the position to act immorally. Life has always been about what one SHOULD do, not what one CAN do. That is what so many of you Liberals miss.

Problem is, who's determining what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'? THAT, sir, in a nutshell, shows what's wrong with your argument. A 2011 poll found that 46% of Mississippi Republicans STILL think that interracial marriage should be banned. It just became legal in Missouri to buy a friggin' machine gun, and Idaho just gave a gun permit to a blind man! And in each case, there were people who believed with all their hearts that these are the RIGHT things to do.

This, sir, is why I go with 'better' and 'worse' instead of 'right' and 'wrong'...because 'better' and 'worse' is QUANTIFIABLE. We KNOW when people live longer, healthier lives, as compared to when they live shorter, less healthy. We KNOW when people are better educated, as compared to when they are less educated. We KNOW when there is less violence, as compared to when there is more violence. There is no question as to which one is better or worse.

'Right' and 'wrong' is not quantifiable - everybody's got their own opinion as to what's right and wrong. But 'better' and 'worse' ARE quantifiable. THAT, sir, is what you - and I daresay most conservatives - miss.
 
Asside from the rediculous notion that PPACA is a republican idea that had 100% demorat votes and no republicant votes, you still fail to say why "anything" is better than no change at all, or making multiple separtate changes in single/related "problem areas".

Use spellcheck much? Anyway, I didn't say 'anything' is better than no change at all - I said that half a loaf is better than none. Getting insurance for tens of millions of Americans who can't afford insurance today is a heck of a lot better than the system that we had.

Tax the employer provided insurance benefit as income to the employee, which is exacty what it is. That alone raises way more revenue than PPACA and is 100% constitutional per the 16th amendment.

So you're taking the money away from the workers - from the people who can least afford it - in order to pay for it. Now most conservatives and libertarians would have no problem with this, but right now we've got a greater income gap than at any time since the days before the crash of 1929. Y'all need to stop coddling the rich and worshiping them as 'job creators'...because what drives an economy is NOT supply, but DEMAND...and when people have less money to spend, there will be less demand. That last sentence is in a nutshell why the first-world democracies are ALL high-tax socialized democracies.

Limit the pre-existing condition penalty to one year coverage delay per year previously uninsured or at least as a serious cap on annual benefits for the previously uninsured (say no more than 300% of premiums paid) for that period of time.

Sounds good for the bean-counters at the insurance companies, huh? But those with pre-existing conditions - like my oldest son - are screwed for yet another year. More people die, more people are driven into poverty...and here's another thing that conservatives and libertarians don't get: when OTHER people are driven into poverty for whatever reason, YOU also pay for it. You either pay higher taxes to help keep people out of poverty, or you pay through a whole host of venues (including taxes) when people are driven into poverty. You WILL pay either way, as long as you live in the country where this happens. So which is better: to pay more to keep people out of poverty, or to pay more for the consequences for more people going into poverty?

The idea that those without insurance can simply by it "as needed", paying premiums for a few months while getting many, many times over that in benefits is obviously not going to work, thus that goofy idea of an individual mandate (instead of allowing a simple penalty for periods uninsured).

You DO realize, of course, that the individual mandate PENALIZES those who try to buy insurance 'as needed', right? If you don't purchase insurance, you will get penalized.

Guy, EVERYBODY needs health care at some point in their lives. If you breathe, you WILL need health care. So seeing as how YOU already pay extra in taxes for those who go to emergency rooms and can't pay for it, YOU already pay extra in taxes because of the families who went into bankruptcy and/or foreclosure because of their lack of health care, it seems to me that YES, it is a strictly conservative idea that everyone should have to pay for something that EVERYONE will use sooner or later. And that's why this whole plan was a conservative idea to begin with!

The problem with the individual mandate is that the fine is far lower than the cost of the cheapest possible policy allowed. Imagine if you could wait and until a vehicle theft or accident occured and then purchase full coverage auto insurance to help recover your added "investment", it would certainly save you lits money but totally defeats the very purpose of insurance which is a risk sharing pool.

Do you really know how much the penalty is? Here, check it out - starting in 2016, it ain't that cheap...especially considering that the poorer people who would get penalized would pay MORE than they would if they got the insurance. Why? Because after the government subsidy is included, the lower-cost 'bronze' plans are cheaper than the penalty

As long as insurance is for the rare, unexpected and very expensive event it is relatively affordable, what PPACA wants to do is make insurance be used for every bit of medical care incliuding normal preventive, routine and elective procedures with no thought to people actually caring what that medical care actually costs. The horor of anyone having to pay $10/month "out of pocket" for birth control pills! That is what drives costs up. Imagine what auto insurance would cost if we mandated that it cover tune-ups, worn tire replacement and oil changes. Imagine what homeowners/renters insurance would cost if it covered lawn maintanence, replacing worn out furniture and periodic repainting. What PPACA seeks to do is ever more insulate users of medical care from the actual costs of that care - precisely the oppostie of keeping prices down via competition.

I know this may come as a shock to you, but we're not talking about tune-ups and lawn maintenance. We're talking about PEOPLE. I don't know if you personally are 'pro-life' or not, but it's truly ironic that so many self-professed 'pro-lifers' are so hardwired against a program that WILL save lives, that WILL lower the birth mortality rate.

My suggestion for medical insurance is a high deductable (catastropic) policy coupled with a medical savings account (MSA), as your MSA balance rises/falls then increase/decrease your insurance deductable accordingly.

Ah. Do you see the problem with your suggestion? Picture this: you're the breadwinner of the family, and you've got choices to make - you're struggling to pay the rent and put food on the table, not to mention school expenses for the kids...and THEN you're also expected to find money for a 'Medical Savings Account', too? This is the problem that faces the tens of millions of Americans today who don't have - who can't afford - health insurance today. What you're suggesting is not a solution - it's an option, and as such would be ignored by those tens of millions of Americans who are more worried about affording food, shelter, and clothing than they are about putting money into some anomalous savings account.
 
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