• Please keep all posts on the Rittenhouse verdict here: Rittenhouse Verdict. Note the moderator warnings in the thread. The thread will be heavily moderated with a zero tolerance policy for any baiting, flaming, trolling or other rule breaks. Stick to the topic and not the other posters. Thank you.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Conservative viewpoints & extremist Islam

Josie

No Day But Today
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 25, 2010
Messages
43,043
Reaction score
22,714
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?
 

TheGoverness

Little Miss Sunshine
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
35,066
Reaction score
37,710
Location
Houston Area, TX
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

No. Not in the slightest.
 

Tigerace117

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
43,016
Reaction score
11,505
Location
Chicago
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

Nope.
 

Lutherf

DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
41,736
Reaction score
48,179
Location
Tucson, AZ
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
When we start policing ideas we are totally lost.
 

roughdraft274

ThunderCougarFalconBird
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 3, 2010
Messages
16,009
Reaction score
9,886
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

No. That's just stupid.
 

Beaudreaux

Preserve Protect Defend
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
18,233
Reaction score
15,861
Location
veni, vidi, volo - now back in NC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

Although the treatment of gays by SOME religious conservatives that call themselves "Christians" is and has been awful, it is in no way even close to mass murder. To try and equivocate the two is the act of a person desperate to attack the far right at any cost, and nothing else.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,764
Reaction score
20,448
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

People, thanks to a compliant media, often conflate religious dogma with conservative and Republican principles. In the areas of gay rights, as an example, there are and have been large swaths of liberals and Democrats who also oppose gay rights as related to marriage in particular but also adoption as well. These liberals and Democrats also happen to be mainly from minorities and the religious left, particularly blacks and Hispanics. The only difference I can see is that the religious left does not make a point of their political action being tied to their religious beliefs where large segments of the religious right do.

I'm a conservative but I'm not the slightest bit religious in the sense that I disavow all forms of religious organization. I do have a sense that a higher being exists but he/she is not governed by the dictates of religious leaders here on earth. I try to guide my life based on many of the teachings from my youth, but they guide me and only me and not how others should live their lives.

As a result, I abhor extremisms of all kinds, religious or otherwise, including and most especially extremism in government and public life. It is why I often reject liberalism in its current form because it is, in many ways, a form of religious extremism in the name of government.
 

WillyPete

The sound of one chao mooing.
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Sep 17, 2013
Messages
4,762
Reaction score
2,432
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

I'd suggest they are linked in the opposite direction, as it seems pretty clear that people who kill gay folk for being gay aren't likely to support gay marriage.

So in many ways they are on the same side of the issue. A person intending to kill gay people could easily be overlooked amongst a crowd of anti-gay marriage folk.

I'd wager some of these types seek approval and acceptance from the anti-gay marriage by their extreme acts. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this was part of their rationalization for these types of killings, though it doesn't seem likely in the Orlando shooting.
 

longview

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2012
Messages
32,768
Reaction score
10,622
Location
Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I know conservatives who oppose gay marriage, on the grounds that marriage is
a religious ceremony, I .E. they object to calling a civil union "marriage" .
I think it is short sighted of them as the concept, if not the term marriage existed before most
of the worlds religions. Our society offers legal protections to people who agree to
form a formal union. and those protections and legal rights should apply to all equally.
To equate someones disagreement over the legality of civil unions, to someone executing
people because of the lifestyle choices is bordering or ridiculous.
 

stevecanuck

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
5,684
Reaction score
1,361
Location
Canada / Australia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

I've seen this sort of comparison made many times on discussion boards. She's obviously one of these people who think, "Something horrible happened. How can I shift the blame to those neo-Nazi right wing bastards?"
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
55,106
Reaction score
11,537
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

No, I don't. However I do believe that people that force religion onto others are no different than those enforcing sharia law.

It isn't conservative to use government to deny liberty that's progressivism.

So those that claim to be conservative Christians but seek to deny civil liberties are liars, hypocritical, wicked anti constitutionalists, but not murderers
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
I was having a discussion on another forum yesterday about the shootings in Orlando. I was taken aback by someone's statement and wondering how many people agree. She was talking about how gays have had to fight for their rights in America and how conservatives have hindered them in that area. She compared that to the shootings yesterday in Orlando. She said that denying gays the right to marry, etc. is just as bad as killing them.

After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I asked for clarification and she said it again.

Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?

IMO, government in a free country with citizens of different faiths or no faith, is not supposed to legislate religious morals.

So I'd say denying homosexuals civil marriage rights (like, a government paper rather than a church document) is indeed a grave violation of the basic freedom of a certain group -- maybe comparable to denying blacks the right to marry.

But while that's oppression, naw, it's not as bad as killing them. IMO.
 

German guy

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
5,187
Reaction score
4,255
Location
Berlin, Germany
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
True Christians should be aware that we're all sinners, and homosexuality is not worse a sin as all the sins we're all guilty of. Jesus Christ said about sinners: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

So a true Christian will be less concerned with the sins of others, but much more about his own salvation. Leave the sins of others be a matter between them and God.

In the New Testament, who were the people overly occupied with judging and the dos and don'ts? Yes right, the Pharisees.
 

Captain America

Jedi Master
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 12, 2006
Messages
23,058
Reaction score
13,370
Location
Wisconsin
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
I've seen this sort of comparison made many times on discussion boards. She's obviously one of these people who think, "Something horrible happened. How can I shift the blame to those neo-Nazi right wing bastards?"

I agree 100%.

She definitely is NOT one of those who politicized the massacre and started blaming Obama before the blood even dried. She is a just another crazy. Only from the other side of the fence this time.
 

faithful_servant

DP Veteran
Joined
May 18, 2006
Messages
12,533
Reaction score
5,659
Location
Beautiful Central Oregon
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
People, thanks to a compliant media, often conflate religious dogma with conservative and Republican principles. In the areas of gay rights, as an example, there are and have been large swaths of liberals and Democrats who also oppose gay rights as related to marriage in particular but also adoption as well. These liberals and Democrats also happen to be mainly from minorities and the religious left, particularly blacks and Hispanics. The only difference I can see is that the religious left does not make a point of their political action being tied to their religious beliefs where large segments of the religious right do.

I'm a conservative but I'm not the slightest bit religious in the sense that I disavow all forms of religious organization. I do have a sense that a higher being exists but he/she is not governed by the dictates of religious leaders here on earth. I try to guide my life based on many of the teachings from my youth, but they guide me and only me and not how others should live their lives.

As a result, I abhor extremisms of all kinds, religious or otherwise, including and most especially extremism in government and public life. It is why I often reject liberalism in its current form because it is, in many ways, a form of religious extremism in the name of government.

In California, the group that's been the most consistent opponent of homosexual marriage has been black Democrats....
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
There are plenty of ultra-religious neo-cons who probably do think that killing gays is a good thing and would love to engage in it if they could get away with it. This is why it is so important to separate religious "conservatism" from political "conservatism". They are not the same thing. You can be politically conservative and non-religious, the GOP's view of hyper-religious neo-conservative asshole has really played havoc with what things really mean.
 

Eric7216

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
3,050
Reaction score
698
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do you believe that conservatives who don't believe gay marriage should be a right are akin to those who kill people because they're gay?
Certainly have been seeing that connection a lot in DP and the logic totally escapes me. My theory would be that many people see conservatives as a much bigger problem than jihadists so that any negative that can be thrown at conservatives will be used. And the heck with logic.
 

D_NATURED

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
5,663
Reaction score
2,848
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
People, thanks to a compliant media, often conflate religious dogma with conservative and Republican principles. In the areas of gay rights, as an example, there are and have been large swaths of liberals and Democrats who also oppose gay rights as related to marriage in particular but also adoption as well. These liberals and Democrats also happen to be mainly from minorities and the religious left, particularly blacks and Hispanics. The only difference I can see is that the religious left does not make a point of their political action being tied to their religious beliefs where large segments of the religious right do.

I'm a conservative but I'm not the slightest bit religious in the sense that I disavow all forms of religious organization. I do have a sense that a higher being exists but he/she is not governed by the dictates of religious leaders here on earth. I try to guide my life based on many of the teachings from my youth, but they guide me and only me and not how others should live their lives.

As a result, I abhor extremisms of all kinds, religious or otherwise, including and most especially extremism in government and public life. It is why I often reject liberalism in its current form because it is, in many ways, a form of religious extremism in the name of government.

I think the reason that intolerance of gay people gets confused with the conservative agenda is because it IS the conservative agenda. How many commercials promising to "protect" marriage (we know the real meaning of this religious correctness) do GOP candidates have to run before we should take it seriously?

Yes, there are swaths of American "liberals" who claim to be against equality for gay people and they are largely minorities, blacks whose baptist associations are famously socially conservative and, of course, the latin population with their Catholicism, again, a largely socially conservative group. So what? All you demonstrate is that stereotypes about democratic voters are often wrong. Gay rights aside, it's easy for minorities to choose the more liberal candidate when the GOP vilifies minorities at every turn. They are driven away by the rabid xenophobia of the right.

So, in a more "perfect" world, the right could potentially capitalize on the miserable results of the racist American education system and the national pastime of pretending that the sky is full of invisible deities to make their bigotry main stream. But, in the way that money trumps faith on both sides of the aisle, the otherwise socially conservative minorities in the democratic party must vote with their wallets too, as the right has few advocates for assisting them gain fiscal equality.

Who knows, maybe some day, when the races have melded enough and being black or brown is no longer a greater indication of poverty, the idea of voting with your hate might come back into fashion. If that happens, rest assured, the conservatives will benefit from that. No doubt, they would gladly, and shamelessly, accept political power that comes at the expense of the gay citizens of this country. If and when it happens, it will only prove that bigotry is a political as well as a religious tradition.
 

CanadaJohn

Canadian Conservative
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 27, 2013
Messages
28,764
Reaction score
20,448
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think the reason that intolerance of gay people gets confused with the conservative agenda is because it IS the conservative agenda. How many commercials promising to "protect" marriage (we know the real meaning of this religious correctness) do GOP candidates have to run before we should take it seriously?

Yes, there are swaths of American "liberals" who claim to be against equality for gay people and they are largely minorities, blacks whose baptist associations are famously socially conservative and, of course, the latin population with their Catholicism, again, a largely socially conservative group. So what? All you demonstrate is that stereotypes about democratic voters are often wrong. Gay rights aside, it's easy for minorities to choose the more liberal candidate when the GOP vilifies minorities at every turn. They are driven away by the rabid xenophobia of the right.

So, in a more "perfect" world, the right could potentially capitalize on the miserable results of the racist American education system and the national pastime of pretending that the sky is full of invisible deities to make their bigotry main stream. But, in the way that money trumps faith on both sides of the aisle, the otherwise socially conservative minorities in the democratic party must vote with their wallets too, as the right has few advocates for assisting them gain fiscal equality.

Who knows, maybe some day, when the races have melded enough and being black or brown is no longer a greater indication of poverty, the idea of voting with your hate might come back into fashion. If that happens, rest assured, the conservatives will benefit from that. No doubt, they would gladly, and shamelessly, accept political power that comes at the expense of the gay citizens of this country. If and when it happens, it will only prove that bigotry is a political as well as a religious tradition.

Perhaps the largest bastion of progressive liberalism in the United States, California, America's most populated State and a State that continuously sends Democrat representatives to Washington and Sacramento, is also the State that had over 7 million people passed a proposition to deny marriage rights to gays and lesbians and to secure a State constitutional amendment to that effect. So save your self righteous bleatings and blanket condemnations of conservatives, social and otherwise, for the ignorant people who blindly follow your ideology. After all, bigotry comes in many forms and liberal/progressive arrogance is just one example.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
55,106
Reaction score
11,537
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
In all honesty I have seen much more tolerance from conservatives than most other groups. The only condition I ever saw them place on homosexuality was that we don't call our marriage marriage. There are a few bat**** crazy people that call themselves conservative but due to their religious devotion cannot be that think we should make homosexuality illegal, but like I said they aren't conservative.
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
In all honesty I have seen much more tolerance from conservatives than most other groups. The only condition I ever saw them place on homosexuality was that we don't call our marriage marriage. There are a few bat**** crazy people that call themselves conservative but due to their religious devotion cannot be that think we should make homosexuality illegal, but like I said they aren't conservative.

As I keep saying, conservative is a political ideology, not a religious one. Anyone whose prime motivation for thought is religious isn't a conservative but a religious zealot.
 

D_NATURED

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
5,663
Reaction score
2,848
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Perhaps the largest bastion of progressive liberalism in the United States, California, America's most populated State and a State that continuously sends Democrat representatives to Washington and Sacramento, is also the State that had over 7 million people passed a proposition to deny marriage rights to gays and lesbians and to secure a State constitutional amendment to that effect. So save your self righteous bleatings and blanket condemnations of conservatives, social and otherwise, for the ignorant people who blindly follow your ideology. After all, bigotry comes in many forms and liberal/progressive arrogance is just one example.

Wow, I guess my post hit home. Do you really believe it was the liberals in California who passed the anti-gay laws? Really?

If you can't rub your two brain cells together and figure out that religion is conservative and religion doesn't care if it's hateful and religion is, overwhelmingly, a bragging point for conservatives above all others, you're blind. Self-righteous bleating is the stuff of pulpit pounders of all stripes, who think tradition is so important that we should sacrifice a better future to it. If liberals are arrogant about anything it's that they are on the right side of these issues of hate. Based upon that FACT, I'll take an arrogant good person over a humble monster any day. Obviously, you're not brave enough to call out your fellow traditionalists on their bigotry because, at the end of the day, what your brand of conservatism is concerned with is fiscal above all else.

Personal wealth, gained immorally, is a wealth of shame. Social status gained at the expense of the innocent is a pedestal of hate. Look the other way, if you like, but don't try to blame the left for creating this paradigm. It was created by god and his faithful minions on the right and we liberals are the only ones doing anything to change the game.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
55,106
Reaction score
11,537
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
As I keep saying, conservative is a political ideology, not a religious one. Anyone whose prime motivation for thought is religious isn't a conservative but a religious zealot.

I agree. Hell Christianity agrees. You can't serve two masters.
 

Cephus

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
31,034
Reaction score
11,932
Location
CA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
I agree. Hell Christianity agrees. You can't serve two masters.

But you have to remember that a lot of these people have no clue what it is that they supposedly believe, they have never read their holy books and they certainly have never thought about what's contained within. They just make stuff up as they go along and try to justify it down the road.
 

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
55,106
Reaction score
11,537
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
But you have to remember that a lot of these people have no clue what it is that they supposedly believe, they have never read their holy books and they certainly have never thought about what's contained within. They just make stuff up as they go along and try to justify it down the road.

Yes some do. I'd say they are more along the lines of demigods than worshippers. They want a religion to justify their opinions.
 
Top Bottom