Conservative refuse to admit these facts are true

[vegas giants]

If all these reasons are morally justified, why We do stop at children? Once people are no longer “contributing members of society” once they are “homeless, drug addicts, criminals, mentally ill, etc” why shouldn’t we apply the same logic and same moral justification to kill them? You just provided all the moral reasons to do so..... and before you say because it’s illegal. So was abortion in almost every state before Before 1973 when roe vs wade was wrongly decided. And indeed in a lot of states it’s still a crime to abort a child for simple convenience. But no one Prosecutes it because precedent has been set. “I don’t want to make abortion illegal via the federal government. I want to allow states to decide for themselves how to handle it. We do that with most nuanced issues.... except abortion because of the incorrect ruling of roe vs wade”.

I’m not here to try and argue or change people’s minds, people don’t change their minds anymore, everyone lives in an echo chamber. I’m just honestly curious to learn why most people support aborting healthy children but are against...,.. say the death penalty. I personally believe that a lot of women have truly been convinced that the debate isn’t about murdering children... but that it’s about “women’s rights”. If this was about making contraceptives, Birth control, IUD’s, etc. illegal... then yes. That’s a woman’s rights issue. once someone is pregnant, the debate is about 2 people not 1.

and I don’t accept “oh just keep your nose out of what I do with my child”. No.... that’s what people used to say about their slaves as well! You don’t get to commit crimes against humanity and say “well, the letter of the law says I can do it, so ha”! The Point of debate is suppose to be a war of ideas and open dialogue. where we find out if there is actual merit or mortality to the idea.

There is no state in the union where a woman can not abort a child for convenience

 

[weaver2]

If all these reasons are morally justified, why We do stop at children? Once people are no longer “contributing members of society” once they are “homeless, drug addicts, criminals, mentally ill, etc” why shouldn’t we apply the same logic and same moral justification to kill them? You just provided all the moral reasons to do so..... and before you say because it’s illegal. So was abortion in almost every state before Before 1973 when roe vs wade was wrongly decided. And indeed in a lot of states it’s still a crime to abort a child for simple convenience. But no one Prosecutes it because precedent has been set. “I don’t want to make abortion illegal via the federal government. I want to allow states to decide for themselves how to handle it. We do that with most nuanced issues.... except abortion because of the incorrect ruling of roe vs wade”.

I’m not here to try and argue or change people’s minds, people don’t change their minds anymore, everyone lives in an echo chamber. I’m just honestly curious to learn why most people support aborting healthy children but are against...,.. say the death penalty. I personally believe that a lot of women have truly been convinced that the debate isn’t about murdering children... but that it’s about “women’s rights”. If this was about making contraceptives, Birth control, IUD’s, etc. illegal... then yes. That’s a woman’s rights issue. once someone is pregnant, the debate is about 2 people not 1.

and I don’t accept “oh just keep your nose out of what I do with my child”. No.... that’s what people used to say about their slaves as well! You don’t get to commit crimes against humanity and say “well, the letter of the law says I can do it, so ha”! The Point of debate is suppose to be a war of ideas and open dialogue. where we find out if there is actual merit or mortality to the idea.

You're curious to learn why most people abort? Most people don't. Women between the ages of 15 and 44 abort. You personally believe women don't know why they abort, they just do it because women's rights are popular right now. And you don't accept that the Constitution gives women the right to make private decisions about their personal lives. Well John Galt (oh goodie a Rand worshipper snicker) you wanted honesty. Here's some for you. You aren't curious. You aren't interested in open dialogue and you've already made up your mind that you are right, women aren't, unless they produce children and there is no merit in anyone ideas only yours. And for reasons yet unclear you are allowed to interfere in women's most intimate lives, call them criminals without knowing one single thing about their lives or their circumstances but. you are immune from anyone telling you what you can and can't do. Here's a piece of advice for men like you that think women need to follow men's direction about pregnancy, abortion, birth, lactation, infant care. When you get pregnant get back to us with your advice and then we'll listen. Until then STFU and quit telling us how to manage our sex lives, our pregnancies, our families and if necessary our abortions.

 

[CLAX1911]

These are true facts about abortion. Why won't pro-life advocates admit they are true?

*95% of women did the right thing by getting an abortion
Five years after abortion, nearly all women say it was the right decision, even those who struggled to make the decision supported the abortion years later.
*Anti-abortion women are the largest % of women getting abortions:
The majority of abortion patients indicated a religious affiliation: Seventeen percent identified as mainline Protestant, 13% as evangelical Protestant and 24% as Roman Catholic, while 8% identified with some other religion. Thirty-eight percent of patients did not identify with any religion. The proportion of women who identified as mainline Protestant declined by 24% since 2008, whereas the proportion with no affiliation increased by 38%�.
*Women who get abortions are responsible people:
85% of the women getting abortions have either part-time or full=time jobs.
45% are married or in stable relationships
59.3% have one or more children already
42.4% are aged 25 to 35
64% have attended college or have have a degree
66% plan to have children when they are financially able to provide necessities for them, and/or in a supportive relationship with a partner so their children will have two parents
64 % are using birth control: (rhythm and withdrawal are not considered birth control because their failure rate is so high).
*Women get abortions for very good reasons
The family can't financially support a child at this time.
The woman has responsibilities to work, parents, school or other children.
“I am too immature to raise a child�
Denying abortion in cases of unwanted pregnancies creates children that grow up with huge social problems.
*Conservatives created the marriage destroying legislation of aid to single mothers only.

Oops! We’re lost. | UC San Francisco
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/Digitization/140517NCJRS.pdf
Females in the US Workforce
Characteristics of U.S. Abortion Patients in 2014 and Changes Since 2008 | Guttmacher Institute
Aid to Families with Dependent Children - Wikipedia

Killing a baby isn't responsible.

 

[weaver2]

Killing a baby isn't responsible.

It is responsible ............. when it is called abortion and it is done in the 1st trimester. And it's none of your business. I'm guessing if someone changed Texas laws so an IQ test was required before couples could reproduce (and you didn't pass the test) you would tell them that your reproductive life was none of their business. So, tell us, how come some Texas ignoramus thinks he can manage the abortion of some couple in Seattle.

 

[CLAX1911]

It is responsible .............

I disagree

 

[weaver2]

I disagree

You disagree with what ........... That abortion is a responsible action to take? ............ That it is none of your business what other people do about sex and reproduction. ............. That you'd be flaming mad if somebody told you how and when to you could have children? That you are not smart enough to take part in a discussion that involves the use of accurate terminology, a basic understanding of the terminology and reliably sourced information.

 

[CLAX1911]

You disagree with what ........... That abortion is a responsible action to take? ............

Yes

That it is none of your business what other people do about sex and reproduction.

if it's not my business then it's none of your business so stop talking about it.

............. That you'd be flaming mad if somebody told you how and when to you could have children?

I'd never feel justified in killing them.

That you are not smart enough to take part in a discussion that involves the use of accurate terminology, a basic understanding of the terminology and reliably sourced information.

import attempts to insult me are not an argument. It's not that I'm not smart enough to take part in the discussion it's that I disagree with you. So agreed to disagree you're not correct you're just opinionated.

 

[weaver2]

Yes if it's not my business then it's none of your business so stop talking about it. I'd never feel justified in killing them. import attempts to insult me are not an argument. It's not that I'm not smart enough to take part in the discussion it's that I disagree with you. So agreed to disagree you're not correct you're just opinionated.

You betcha I'm opinionated. So are you. The difference is I have an entire background of sources and facts, from studies, surveys, research, statistics to back up my opinion. All you have is your gut reaction, popular religious propaganda about slutty women who get abortions, racist crap about needing to increase the white population lest brown and black people take over your white culture. and misogynist crap about how nature designed women to be pregnant and giving birth and that by God is what she should be doing, not doing what they want with their bodies and lecturing good, righteous, white, conservative, men they are full of shit.

 

[CLAX1911]

You betcha I'm opinionated. So are you.

didn't say I wasn't.

The difference is I have an entire background of sources and facts, from studies, surveys, research, statistics to back up my opinion.

no amount of facts research or statistics would ever make it right in a million years to kill babies in the womb.

All you have is your gut reaction, popular religious propaganda about slutty women who get abortions, racist crap about needing to increase the white population lest brown and black people take over your white culture.

no sir I have absolute undeniable scientific fact, bare minimum of human morality.

and misogynist crap about how nature designed women to be pregnant and giving birth and that by God is what she should be doing, not doing what they want with their bodies and lecturing good, righteous, white, conservative, men they are full of shit.

never said any of that you're making shit up. You are mischaracterizing my position to make are you straw man. That's poor logic.

 

[weaver2]

didn't say I wasn't. no amount of facts research or statistics would ever make it right in a million years to kill babies in the womb.no sir I have absolute undeniable scientific fact, bare minimum of human morality. never said any of that you're making shit up. You are mischaracterizing my position to make are you straw man. That's poor logic.

You only have undeniable fact if you substitute maudlin pro-life terms for scientific terms and use the term murder incorrectly. Your position has not been mischaracterized. It's just been stated in mawkish, bathetic, affected, gushy l and inane terms. You don't like it? Stop doing it with your characterization of abortion.

 

[Lursa]

Belief does not make anything right, particularly self serving beliefs.

You either believe abortion should be legal or you dont.

If you dont, your 'belief' means no more than mine.

That's why we have a document that bases protecting life and liberty on rights. And women have them and the unborn do not (see 14th Amendment for those that apply to this issue).

And "I believe" the Const got it right.

 

[Lursa]

Wow, talk about a completely irrelevant comparison.

95% of those who don't wear masks are doing the right thing - because that's what they believe so it's a fact. Right?

I am in favor of opening up the economy and less people will die if we do. Contrary to the beliefs of some, covid-19 isn't the only cause of death.

That's BS. Let's see your medical sources.

 

[CLAX1911]

You only have undeniable fact if you substitute maudlin pro-life terms for scientific terms and use the term murder incorrectly.

well it is an undeniable fact that a fetus is human life. Those are plain terms and you absolutely can't deny it. Further I didn't say abortion was a murder so you're arguing against a statement I never made you you're bad at anticipating where I'm going.

Your position has not been mischaracterized. It's just been stated in mawkish, bathetic, affected, gushy l and inane terms. You don't like it? Stop doing it with your characterization of abortion.

yes you have mischaracterized my position I would know it better than you. I make no religious arguments about it. My argument isn't the characterization at all.

A fetus is a human life. It's not a toaster it's not an organ it's not an elephant. That is undeniable fact. It has unique DNA. This is also a scientific fact you cannot deny. And when you terminate it you have ended it's life there in the bones about this you cannot argue against any of these things that I said they are ironclad absolute fact.

You show me the religion in those facts that I presented. Show me how's these facts are gushy or mawkish. Explain how these terms are a inane. Now that you have your foot in your mouth

 

[Lursa]

It is responsible ............. when it is called abortion and it is done in the 1st trimester. And it's none of your business. I'm guessing if someone changed Texas laws so an IQ test was required before couples could reproduce (and you didn't pass the test) you would tell them that your reproductive life was none of their business. So, tell us, how come some Texas ignoramus thinks he can manage the abortion of some couple in Seattle.

Exactly. Of course it's responsible! Here, this makes it easy, I love OneNote.

 

[CLAX1911]

Exactly. Of course it's responsible! Here, this makes it easy, I love OneNote.

View attachment 67296890

People don't have to become pregnant.

 

[Lursa]

It is responsible ............. when it is called abortion and it is done in the 1st trimester. And it's none of your business. I'm guessing if someone changed Texas laws so an IQ test was required before couples could reproduce (and you didn't pass the test) you would tell them that your reproductive life was none of their business. So, tell us, how come some Texas ignoramus thinks he can manage the abortion of some couple in Seattle.

But wait! There's more! LOL



Links available if desired. New forum format takes OneNote content as images, which has pros and cons.

 

[Lursa]

You disagree with what ........... That abortion is a responsible action to take? ............ That it is none of your business what other people do about sex and reproduction. ............. That you'd be flaming mad if somebody told you how and when to you could have children? That you are not smart enough to take part in a discussion that involves the use of accurate terminology, a basic understanding of the terminology and reliably sourced information.

Women are perfectly welcome to enjoy responsible sex. It's an amazing thing to share.

If BC isnt perfect, women have a safer, responsible option to giving birth if they need it. If she doesnt want or cant afford a kid, why on earth take the greater risk to her life, her health, her ability to uphold her commitments and obligations to family, employer, church, community, society, etc by being sick or partially incapacitated during all those months?

 

[Lursa]

You only have undeniable fact if you substitute maudlin pro-life terms for scientific terms and use the term murder incorrectly. Your position has not been mischaracterized. It's just been stated in mawkish, bathetic, affected, gushy l and inane terms. You don't like it? Stop doing it with your characterization of abortion.

An appeal to science is a last ditch effort to overcome the fact that rights and laws are all man-made. and subjective. There are those, esp. the religious but not all, that are desperate to find a black and white reason to end elective abortion. Sorry to tell them, it doesnt exist.

Science doesnt value humans, born or unborn, any differently than other animals. It's completely objective. It 'classifies', it doesnt make decisions and it doesnt make laws.

Rights are a man-made concept. Man makes laws. Any regulation of abortion requires laws. I jst ask, what authority that Americans are obligated to follow says the unborn has a right to life?
​

 

[weaver2]

People don't have to become pregnant.

And you don't have to post inanities

 

[Lursa]

And you don't have to post inanities

Well, maybe he does. There are all sorts of compulsions.

 

[CLAX1911]

And you don't have to post inanities

It's a devastating argument pretending it's inane doesn't change that.

 

[CLAX1911]

Well, maybe he does. There are all sorts of compulsions.

Argue the point... oh wait you can't.

 

[weaver2]

Argue the point... oh wait you can't.

"People don't have to become pregnant" isn't an argument. It's a statement, a true statement but a kinda dumb statement, to which the response is "So?" Were you hoping for something else?

 

[CLAX1911]

"People don't have to become pregnant" isn't an argument. It's a statement, a true statement but a kinda dumb statement, to which the response is "So?" Were you hoping for something else?

Arguments are made up of statements. If you don't have to become pregnant you aren't forced to become pregnant so therefore you're not forced to give birth.

 

[weaver2]

Arguments are made up of statements. If you don't have to become pregnant you aren't forced to become pregnant so therefore you're not forced to give birth.

So you are for forcing women to give birth.