Precisely. That is the whole point of a protest.
No it isn't. The point of a protest is to be heard. Disrupting the peace is against the law. You can and will be fined or go to jail for it.
And so the question here then is: where is the line between keeping the peace, and voicing your opinion and practicing your freedom of speech.
Your right to speak ends when and where you harm others. Keep it peaceful and people will leave you alone.
I found the article, it wasn't NYPD, it was actually CA. Las Vegas, Nevada also has a similar training program.
Article - News - Police admit planting evidence
The training is to teach police officers how to conduct searches... not to teach them how to set up innocent people.
Try again.
Perhaps not. But what can you say that can justify this? [This is a transcript of a live radio interview of the Attorney of the victim.]
Democracy Now! | Police Entrapment in Terror Case? NYC Subway Bomb Plotter Says He Was Set Up By Paid NYPD Informant
the NYPD basically instigated a terrorist attack. They're not the ones doing th bombing, but just short of, which IMHO is not that big of a difference.
at worst that was a paid informant of the NYPD and not the NYPD itself.
What's more, I'd like secondary sources on the story...
Again, i'm not totally disagreeing with you, but you are missing the point. I do not deny the fact that we have our own problems within our own groups, but the bigger issue are the ones instigated from infiltrators. That is the larger problem at hand.
the infiltrators won't go away until your groups don't have these problems. You'll note that fishing clubs don't get infiltrated... the problem is your fanatics. They do need to be watched.
What's more your claim that such actions are the work of infiltrators is only your belief. And I don't share it.
Not much more to say on the issue.
At this point, I have to ask you, who are we catering to? Why must we compromise our freedom of speech? and for whom?
If you believe in a certain ideology, and willing to die for it, why would it matter how loud one shouts? If you are willing to be part of a movement that can have the potential of a revolution, why would anyone be so concerned about too much chanting or what not. The people who cannot "handle that" are not complaining about the means of protest, but rather the reason behind the protest. People who are against each other do not argue that they are being too loud or too moralizing or chanting too much, they argue because they subscribe to a different ideology.
I cater to myself and my own personal sense of right and wrong. I see such groups as fanatical and often dangerous. I don't respect unrestrained passion... it troubles me. I like level headed people that are rational and reasonable. And fanatics of all stripes scare me. I can't negotiate with them... I can't count on their better judgment... I can't even talk to them. Their minds are by definition closed. So that is what I serve. You'll note that I have cited my political leanings as "Moderate"... that is what I am... moderate. That doesn't mean that I won't kill to protect what matters to me. What it does mean is that it takes more to get me to do it. That said, once I have been pushed towards that position I am likely to stay there... but I'm always listening... and I work very hard not to jump to conclusions.
As to your second paragraph, the problem is that you're making fanatics. Your loud preaching, your rhetoric, your costumes, your slogans, your chanting... it creates fanatics.
Furthermore, I am not saying that you are all fanatics. See, as I said, fanatics are useful. But they're also dangerous to you as well. So just because you create them doesn't mean that you'll support them always. You will take what they have to offer to your movement... you will take their spirit.. their dedication... unselfishness to your cause... and you will USE it. But if they embaress the movement, then the movement will distance themselves from the fanatics.
What you are currently doing is perhaps worse. What you are doing is instead of blaming your own fanatics for these acts you're blaming it on a shadowy unknown force lurking in your midst. Well, one of your fanatics might buy that line, but I won't. I'll need proof that plants in your organization are responsible or I will with justification blame your own group for your own fanatics.
And compromise our cause? What if that cause cannot be compromised? Would African Americans settle for most of thier civil rights during the movement in the 60s? Hell no.
You have to compromise. take what you can get and don't tell people to revolt against the government if you don't get every little thing you want.
Remember, some people disagree with you. And as much as you might not like it that means they can counter your movement without holding a single protest. Simply letting their representatives know they disagree with you is enough.
So take what you can get and don't try to take more then you have a right to. You can protest... but when you make fanatics... when you demonize people... well... people are going to watch you. And if you don't like that, that's just too damn bad. I want fanatics watched. That is my vote. I have as much a right to a vote as anyone in your movement and I'm not alone. So the fanatics will be watched.
I guess you can do that if you're a centrist, but soemtimes there are no such thing as a middle ground, and what then? That is what protesting is all about because there is no compromise.
If there is no middle ground then there are no centerists. If there are centerists then there is a middle ground... you just don't see it. You're mistaking not being willing to compromise with not being able to compromise. On some issues you won't have a choice. You will have to compromise. That's reality.
I know you see your movement as a moral imperative. You are right and the people against you are wrong. They are not only wrong but they are perhaps evil... they are morally wrong... their acts are violations of all that is good and holy.
But you see, religious fanatics believe the same thing. There is but ONE God etc... and they don't believe there is any compromise there either. They see no middle ground. There are the children of God and there are the children of Satan. If all that are not the children of God are the children of Satan then what is wrong with putting them ALL to the sword? Convert or die? Nothing, they should be put to the sword if they are children of eternal evil. But then, what if they're not... what if you've just been sucked into a fanatical mental framework that prevents you from seeing people that disagree with you as worthy human beings with a right a point of view?
I am telling you now that I can see you've got some fanatical tendencies already. PULL BACK before it's too late. Remember, if there are people in the middle there is a middle. And also remember you can't justify anything in the name of your Crusade/Jhad/Revolution.
No matter what your issue is... there is always a point where it won't be justified. People like me don't go to rallies. We don't protest. We don't blow up buildings or throw cows blood on people.
We speak quietly and vote. But if you threaten the peace you will scare me... and if you scare me I will support things that will make me safe from you. I will even kill for that peace. I want peace. Real bone deep peace. I don't mind your political views and even support some of them. But if you try to start a revolution... I won't cry foul if someone puts a bullet between your eyes. I'm not saying people should be killed for speaking their mind... but if they go farther and try to pull the whole country apart for their revolution... then not only will I support someone icing them, but I'll pull the damn trigger myself.
Protesting is a way to get your congressperson aware of your position, and if they paying attention, they would see the publics opinion. However, I do not think congresspeople actually listen to the people to make thier decisions personally, but that in itself is a whole other topic.
No you talk to your congressmen or write him/her letters to get them aware. Protests are for typically put on for someone else's congressmen... not your own. Your congressmen typically already know what you want.
