Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

TheDemSocialist · Nov 13, 2014

MIT economist Jonathan Gruber, an architect of the Affordable Care Act, has found himself at the center of an Obamacare controversy—again—after the Daily Caller unearthed comments he made at a 2013 academic conference about the legislative history of Obamacare. “This bill was written in a tortured way to make sure [the Congressional Budget Office] did not score the mandate as taxes,” he said. “If CBO scored the mandate as taxes, the bill dies, ok? … [L]ack of transparency is a huge political advantage and basically, you know, call it the stupidity of the American voter or whatever, but basically, that was really, really critical to getting this thing to pass.” Conservatives have claimed these comments are definitive proof that Democrats and partisan journalists lied to the public to pass the bill—an accusation they have made, over and over again, during Obama’s presidency.That argument has always been overstated. As policymaking goes, the process of writing and debating Obamacare was actually pretty transparent. But Gruber’s comments, inartful as they were, reveal a dirty little secret about legislating: Congress uses budget gimmicks all the time to hide the cost of bills and limit their political repercussions.
In fact, both Democrats and Republicans have done this in the past year. Paul Ryan, for instance, refused to call the increased airline fees in the Murray-Ryan budget agreement a tax increase. Conservative groups saw through this obfuscation but Ryan refused to change his position. When both parties needed to find a funding patch for the Highway Trust Fund, they used a budget gimmick called pension smoothing to offset the cost. But pension smoothing doesn’t actually save any money. If anything, it could add to the deficit. Nevertheless, the legislation passed the Senate 81-13 and House 367-55.

Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people.

WallStreetVixen · Nov 13, 2014

American voters are stupid, so I don't understand why anyone would be unset about this.

They essentially got played, and now they're stuck with the worst piece of legislation since the Patriot Act. Mazel Tov...

Jetboogieman · Nov 13, 2014

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Winston Churchill.

clownboy · Nov 13, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

That wasn't the stupidity of the American voter, we didn't vote for or endorse Obamacare. Blame that entirely on the stupidity of congress, the POTUS and the SCOTUS.

Fletch · Nov 13, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Leave it to you to defend the indefensible. But one of the many reasons people like me oppose people like you setting up massive, powerful and intrusive state governments is because they are both willing and eager to deceive the public there are supposed to be there to serve. You want to give creeps who pray on the naivete, ignorance and trusting nature of people more and more power. I want to strip them of that power. You empower evil. That is why your way leads to despotism

Jetboogieman · Nov 13, 2014

Fletch said:
Leave it to you to defend the indefensible. But one of the many reasons people like me oppose people like you setting up massive, powerful and intrusive state governments is because they are both willing and eager to deceive the public there are supposed to be there to serve. You want to give creeps who pray on the naivete, ignorance and trusting nature of people more and more power. I want to strip them of that power. You empower evil. That is why your way leads to despotism

Wow.

The master of all debate strategies.

"Your views are opposed to mine, therefore you are evil". :devil:

Fletch · Nov 13, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
Wow.

The master of all debate strategies.

"Your views are opposed to mine, therefore you are evil". :devil:

You find people who prey upon the weak, the trusting or the stupid to be representatives of the good do you?

nota bene · Nov 13, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

I'm not mad; I'm delighted that the people who already knew that that effete elitists look on them with contempt and consider them "stupid" have had their claims validated.

And I wouldn't confuse apathy--or cynicism either--with stupidity. Very "interesting" that two of the "Big Three" aren't covering this story. Instead, and as usual, they're attempting to provide cover for the Obama administration.

Jetboogieman · Nov 13, 2014

Fletch said:
You find people who prey upon the weak, the trusting or the stupid

I believe many people from all sorts of ideologies and religions do this, including conservatism, liberalism and Christianity etc.

I don't believe based purely on his politics that's what Demsocialist supports... I don't agree with him on everything, I think he's pretty naive on alot of things, but than again I was at his age too.

But I don't believe his intentions are to support evil.

There are many republicans that prey upon the stupid by being opposed to evolution, climate change etc.

Doesn't make it evil.

fmw · Nov 14, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time.

Some people don't believe the ends justify the means. Because it happens all the time doesn't make it right in my book. Obviously it's OK in your book. You don't mind being lied to with misrepresentations. We simply won't agree on that. Nobody needs to tell me my government is corrupt. But I really don't want anybody justifying it to me.

American · Nov 14, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Ah, the "everyone does it" fallacy.

Declan · Nov 14, 2014

WallStreetVixen said:
American voters are stupid, so I don't understand why anyone would be unset about this.

They essentially got played, and now they're stuck with the worst piece of legislation since the Patriot Act. Mazel Tov...

American voters aren't the ones who pass most of these laws.

WallStreetVixen · Nov 14, 2014

Declan said:
American voters aren't the ones who pass most of these laws.

This isn't a referendum. They vote for the people who do pass these laws, while refusing to hold them accountable.

That point is moot.

Perotista · Nov 14, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Congress is indeed deceitful. It doesn't matter which party controls it, congress and legislation thrives on lies. Would what gruber said make a difference in the votes in congress, I think not. If the democrats passed the ACA when it knew the American People were against it 38% for 58% against, they would have passed it if it was 35% for or even 30% for. It wasn't what the American people thought back then, that is clear. It was what the Democrats in congress thought and wanted.

idea_steed · Nov 16, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

Winston Churchill.

So what shall proponents of the democracy do?

Jetboogieman · Nov 16, 2014

idea_steed said:
So what shall proponents of the democracy do?

I would remind you he also went on to say

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" - Winston Churchill

idea_steed · Nov 17, 2014

Jetboogieman said:
I would remind you he also went on to say

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried" - Winston Churchill

So it is a pick-your-poison scenario. Choose anyone you want but he/she will disappoint you in some way.

radcen · Nov 17, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

I agree completely with your point. And I believe this is further evidenced by the 90%+/- Congressional disapproval rating and 90%+/- re-election rate. Bottom line is, we can gripe all we want, but as long as we keep sending these same people back to Congress they're not going to take us and our grievances seriously. And to be honest, they shouldn't.

I also feel that at least half the disagreements in this thread with your point are mere personality disagreements over your lean as a socialist and not the actual point itself. Which is sad at the least, and part of the problem at the worst.

Zyphlin · Nov 17, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Ok I get it, I get it. You guys are mad that Gruber said he relied on the stupidity of the American people to deceive you about the tax that was or was not there, and your mad and you're saying "Ahhh! Told ya! Those dirty Obama lovers!". Yea, yea, yea. But in fact it happens all the time. Congress relies on the American peoples stupidity, to pass stuff all the time. Its what happens when you have a pretty political apathetic population. It's what happens when you have a media that is pretty damn horrible at explaining things to the people. [/FONT][/COLOR]

From "Change from Politics as Usual" to "Come on, it's just politics as usual".

Gruber's machavellian techniques and comments didn't surprise me, but then again I'm not one of the millions that got sucked in by "Hope and Change" in 2008 thinking that Obama was anything but a standard run of the mill washington politician.

Fenton · Nov 17, 2014

radcen said:
I agree completely with your point. And I believe this is further evidenced by the 90%+/- Congressional disapproval rating and 90%+/- re-election rate. Bottom line is, we can gripe all we want, but as long as we keep sending these same people back to Congress they're not going to take us and our grievances seriously. And to be honest, they shouldn't.

I also feel that at least half the disagreements in this thread with your point are mere personality disagreements over your lean as a socialist and not the actual point itself. Which is sad at the least, and part of the problem at the worst.

Yes, it " happens " all the time and its not one specific party that openly LIES to the American people because they think they're idiots, its ALL parties. ....

Love the degree of desperation thats coming from the left these days.

The Democrat party has been busted time and time again lying their way through the last 6 years.

Why should ANYONE give their sychophantic supporters any semblance of credibility ?

Especially when they post nonsense like the OPs dishonest mitigations ?

Keep digging that hole Democrats. Keep talking down to the American voter.

TheDemSocialist · Nov 17, 2014

Fenton said:
Yes, it " happens " all the time and its not one specific party that openly LIES to the American people because they think they're idiots, its ALL parties. ....

Love the degree of desperation thats coming from the left these days.

The Democrat party has been busted time and time again lying their way through the last 6 years.

Why should ANYONE give their sychophantic supporters any semblance of credibility ?

Especially when they post nonsense like the OPs dishonest mitigations ?

Keep digging that hole Democrats. Keep talking down to the American voter.

Once you realize that both parties are openly **** and they both use the same tactics in politics then you will realize the "my turd is better than your turd" argument is a facade.

Fenton · Nov 17, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Once you realize that both parties are openly **** and they both use the same tactics in politics then you will realize the "my turd is better than your turd" argument is a facade.

What I " realize " is that the Democrats just stuck their proverbial foots in their mouths and people like YOU are doing everything in your power to protect them.

Youre' trying to minimalize their lies and insults to the American people

Context and specifics are important here especially when you consider just how destructive ObamaCare is.

Its would be one thing if Gruber just called the American people idiots. What makes this so damaging is the fact that he just reinforced what the Conservatives have been saying about this law since day one.

That it was shoved down our throats along with a long list of lies because we were too stupid to no what's best for us.

You DO understand thats how dictatorships function, right ?

The distinction between the Democrats and a Dictatorship is the empty promise of representation.

They can't represent their consitiuents when they ignore the will of the people.

TheDemSocialist · Nov 17, 2014

Fenton said:
What I " realize " is that the Democrats just stuck their proverbial foots in their mouths and people like YOU are doing everything in your power to protect them.

Where did I try to protect them?

Youre' trying to minimalize their lies and insults to the American people

No I'm not.

Context and specifics are important here especially when you consider just how destructive ObamaCare is.

Yup its the worst thing since slavery we get it.

Its would be one thing if Gruber just called the American people idiots. What makes this so damaging is the fact that he just reinforced what the Conservatives have been saying about this law since day one.

Yup. Sure. Yup.

That it was shoved down our throats along with a long list of lies because we were too stupid to no what's best for us.

No no no. You are too stupid.

You DO understand thats how dictatorships function, right ?

Ahhh!! Dictatorship! Ahh!

The distinction between the Democrats and a Dictatorship is the empty promise of representation.

Yup. Democrats suck! GOP are golden boys!

They can't represent their consitiuents when they ignore the will of the people.

The will of the people!!!

Fenton · Nov 17, 2014

TheDemSocialist said:
Where did I try to protect them?

No I'm not.

Yup its the worst thing since slavery we get it.

Yup. Sure. Yup.

No no no. You are too stupid.

Ahhh!! Dictatorship! Ahh!

Yup. Democrats suck! GOP are golden boys!

The will of the people!!!

Obama did the same thing in Brisbane Australia.

He did the same thing your'e doing. He minimized the fact Americans were lied to and had a law pushed down their throats.

These people including Obama think the American people are absolute idiots.

They're learning nothing

TheDemSocialist · Nov 17, 2014

Fenton said:
Obama did the same thing in Brisbane Australia.

He did the same thing your'e doing. He minimized the fact Americans were lied to and had a law pushed down their throats.

These people including Obama think the American people are absolute idiots.

They're learning nothing

We get it! Its the worst thing ever! Worst thing since slavery. Worst thing of all time. Only care about when the Dems lie. Dont care about anything else. Republicans are the best. Yadda yadda yadda. Dems turds stink the worst, and the GOP never takes a dump.

Congress Relies on the "Stupidity of the American Voter" All the Time

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