Congress Raising Fed. Cig Tax to $1 from $0.39 for CHIP

[jallman]

I think the marginal increase in the taxes will more than balance out the people who will be forced to quit because of the increased cost.

Furthermore, it will have an unintended benefit - if someone is too poor to afford an additional 61 cent/pack tax, they're probably also too poor to pay for quality health insurance. Stopping them from spending hundreds of dollars a month on cigarettes might just help this group get enough $$$ to cover themselves so the rest of us don't have to pay for their asses when they get sick and go bankrupt (as so many people do nowadays).

That's not a judgment for you or me or especially the federal government to make. It's not a matter of the 61 cent deterring the poorer smokers, it is a matter of taking the wealth of smokers in general to pay for the health care of a different group of people. If you are going to tax smokers, especially based on the idea that their health is likely to be poor, then the money needs to go to assist smokers, not someone else.

 

[26 X World Champs]

They include ALL healthcare in there, including privately paid. Please explain how that costs anyone else anything. If you're talking about govt paid healthcare, then I agree that the government shouldn't be paying ANY of it. They shouldn't be paying any healthcare costs at all, so that point is moot.

Even when you have insurance your RATES go up to cover the added expenses nicotine junkies force upon us. The extra expenses are passed along to EVERYONE...not just the idiots who smoke...not to mention the costs of second hand smoke....

 

[Spartacus FPV]

I call BS.

Even when you have insurance your RATES go up to cover the added expenses nicotine junkies force upon us. The extra expenses are passed along to EVERYONE...not just the idiots who smoke...

Perhaps I haven't been paying for Insurance very long, or perhaps my Insurance company is simply competent, but this has NEVER happened to me.

I think you're falsely associating the market's influence with increased overheads.

not to mention the costs of second hand smoke....

And just what does the New England Journal of Medicine say regarding second hand smoke exactly?

What evidence is there out there that doesn't come from a "meta-analysis" or that isn't a projection from previous numbers?

 

[new coup for you]

awesome. paying rent wasnt quite enough an entertaining problem. i'm glad my fun can be taxed more heavily so politicians can show each other up in how willing they are to run my life for me.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

You mean more money from the people who are causing everyone else's health care costs to escalate and that money going for health care for kids who otherwise would not have it.

People are "free" (ha ha) to smoke all they want they just have to pay for their addiction the same way most addicts do.

---
You don't really believe all that $HIT about health care costs going up because of smokers do you?
You have been ***SMOKED*** by the yuppies!:mrgreen: They got your number.

 

[jallman]

---
You don't really believe all that $HIT about health care costs going up because of smokers do you?
You have been ***SMOKED*** by the yuppies!:mrgreen: They got your number.

It's just fashionable this decade to target smokers and muslims. Next decade it will be something else.

 

[RightinNYC]

It's just fashionable this decade to target smokers and muslims. Next decade it will be something else.

So let's get em while its good. How about an Islam tax?

 

[rivrrat]

Even when you have insurance your RATES go up to cover the added expenses nicotine junkies force upon us. The extra expenses are passed along to EVERYONE...not just the idiots who smoke...not to mention the costs of second hand smoke....

Having worked for a large insurance company for a couple of years, I find your presumption difficult to believe since my experience with said company and company policies directly conflict with it.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Regarding the tangential topic of the cost of smoking, There is a good article on the cost of smoking to society vs non smokers:

Cost of Smoking

ACS :: Smoking Costs US $157 Billion Each Year

For the record, the majority of long hospital stays ( post surgical complications etc.) belong to my smoking patients. Surgeons know that the one of the most predictable factor in determining wether there will be surgical complications ( and therefore greater insurance expense) belong mostly to smokers. Out of 47 employees, the ones who take the most sick days are my smokers , not my overweight employees. My young medical assistants who smoked had the more complicated pregnancies than non smoking counterparts, their babies were in the NICU ( neonatal icus) more than non smoking MAs etc. My elderly patients who smoke have higher rates of hip fractures than their non smoking counterparts, ( cigarettes also affect bone densities). My patients who smoke average 3-5 more hospital days for treatment of pneumonia than non smoking patients with pneumonia ( this is easily tracked by my hospital.). During flu season over 70% of the refractory sinus infections, bronchitis etc belong to my smokers. I could go on and on. Yeah healthy people can break hips and have pneumonia etc. but they sure are a lot easier ( and less expensive) to take care of!


I used to think that smokers did society a favor by killing themselves off early so that they would not develop alzheimers dementia and rot slowly in our medical system but now studies show that if a smoker somehow lives to an elderly age, he is 80% more likely to develop dementia ( both alzheimers and vascular) so smokers still stick it to the system!

Older Smokers Have Higher Dementia Risk, Study Says


I offer a 2000 dollar bonus for my employees to quit smoking. 7/10 of them have quit and 4 years later I notice lower medical insurance premiums since they are no longer over utilizing my office health insurance. ( Many of them were getting prescriptions for colds, bronchitis, recurrent sinus infections) The older ones were being hospitalized for various smoke related illnesses like COPD, etc.)

 

[26 X World Champs]

Regarding the tangential topic of the cost of smoking, There is a good article on the cost of smoking to society vs non smokers:

Cost of Smoking

ACS :: Smoking Costs US $157 Billion Each Year

For the record, the majority of long hospital stays ( post surgical complications etc.) belong to my smoking patients. Surgeons know that the one of the most predictable factor in determining wether there will be surgical complications ( and therefore greater insurance expense) belong mostly to smokers. Out of 47 employees, the ones who take the most sick days are my smokers , not my overweight employees. My young medical assistants who smoked had the more complicated pregnancies than non smoking counterparts, their babies were in the NICU ( neonatal icus) more than non smoking MAs etc. My elderly patients who smoke have higher rates of hip fractures than their non smoking counterparts, ( cigarettes also affect bone densities). My patients who smoke average 3-5 more hospital days for treatment of pneumonia than non smoking patients with pneumonia ( this is easily tracked by my hospital.). During flu season over 70% of the refractory sinus infections, bronchitis etc belong to my smokers. I could go on and on. Yeah healthy people can break hips and have pneumonia etc. but they sure are a lot easier ( and less expensive) to take care of!


I used to think that smokers did society a favor by killing themselves off early so that they would not develop alzheimers dementia and rot slowly in our medical system but now studies show that if a smoker somehow lives to an elderly age, he is 80% more likely to develop dementia ( both alzheimers and vascular) so smokers still stick it to the system!

Older Smokers Have Higher Dementia Risk, Study Says


I offer a 2000 dollar bonus for my employees to quit smoking. 7/10 of them have quit and 4 years later I notice lower medical insurance premiums since they are no longer over utilizing my office health insurance. ( Many of them were getting prescriptions for colds, bronchitis, recurrent sinus infections) The older ones were being hospitalized for various smoke related illnesses like COPD, etc.)

Great post! I'm amazed as I read through this thread how many people are either in a complete state of denial, clueless, nicotine addicts or all of the above.

To actually deny that smoking leads to to large increases in health costs for all of society or to whine like a three year old who's candy is taken away from them is pathetic in my book. I also love those who dispute that second hand smoke is a health risk! What planet do these people live on? How can they be so damn stupid?

I have zero respect for anyone who smokes cigarettes, period. I am sympathetic to the fact that they are serious drug addicts and therefore there decision making ability is impaired dramatically.

You're a health care professional and your opinion carries much greater authority than those who use their ridiculous emotional baggage over taxation to skew the truth or to deny the truth.

Some people in this thread even complain that our government has no right to discourage people from smoking as if by doing so somehow they are being harmed! AMAZING! Or should I write AMAZINGLY STUPID!

 

[Voidwar]

Taxes are almost high enough to create a black market.

I know at this point that I would have ZERO guilt about buying a pack of smokes that had no tax stamp. Hopefully the price will rise enough to make supplying me sereptitiously profitable, and I will start to be offered black market cartons of untaxed smokes by some smart entreprenuers.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Taxes are almost high enough to create a black market.

I know at this point that I would have ZERO guilt about buying a pack of smokes that had no tax stamp. Hopefully the price will rise enough to make supplying me sereptitiously profitable, and I will start to be offered black market cartons of untaxed smokes by some smart entreprenuers.

If you want to rip off your fellow countrymen all you need to do is buy cigarettes over the Internet. You can steal from all of us all you want if you so choose.

Hey, why stop there? Why not find other ways to cheat the system? It's not too challenging if you choose to do so. You probably will never get caught either. Of course you might find yourself with an ethical dilemma but maybe for you it's not a dilemma at all?

 

[TOJ]

Hey, state run lotteries and high sins taxes are great ways to extract money from the poor. They indulge in much higher percentages and just taking their money from them is so un-PC. :roll:

 

[Voidwar]

If you want to rip off your fellow countrymen

You got it backward. My "supposed countrymen" are trying to rip me off, in the first place, with this silly prohibitive tax.

 

[26 X World Champs]

You got it backward. My "supposed countrymen" are trying to rip me off, in the first place, with this silly prohibitive tax.

Since we live in a representative democracy the people we vote into office are empowered to decide if something is a "silly prohibitive tax" or not.

I find it remarkable that you actually believe that a tax that causes people to stop smoking is "silly."

Do you smoke cigarettes?

 

[bandaidwoman]

Since we live in a representative democracy the people we vote into office are empowered to decide if something is a "silly prohibitive tax" or not.

I find it remarkable that you actually believe that a tax that causes people to stop smoking is "silly."

Do you smoke cigarettes?

The way I see it , it is no different from any other luxury tax. Like jewelry, candy and furs, a person does not need cigarettes to go on living. I think it is commendable that the most powerful and richest nation in the world is doing something to protect the most innocent and vulnerable segment of our population ( children) by providing the poor children with health care derived from such a luxury/sin tax. Statistically, many of these children are from families who smoke since demographics show that lower income parents are more likely to be smokers ( some studies show 50%!) and they are more likely to smoke around their children or during their pregnancies. These families are therefore more likely to have children with recurrent upper respiraotry tract problems, asthma, complicated pregnancies etc. Thus, in the end, they are directly paying for their own children's healthcare! . Doesn't sound too socialist to me. :mrgreen:

 

[26 X World Champs]

The way I see it , it is no different from any other luxury tax. Like jewelry, candy and furs, a person does not need cigarettes to go on living. I think it is commendable that the most powerful and richest nation in the world is doing something to protect the most innocent and vulnerable segment of our population ( children) by providing the poor children with health care derived from such a luxury/sin tax. Statistically, many of these children are from families who smoke since demographics show that lower income parents are more likely to be smokers ( some studies show 50%!) and they are more likely to smoke around their children or during their pregnancies. These families are therefore more likely to have children with recurrent upper respiraotry tract problems, asthma, complicated pregnancies etc. Thus, in the end, they are directly paying for their own children's healthcare! . Doesn't sound too socialist to me. :mrgreen:

I agree! Just the other day my son, nephew and I were eating dinner at an outdoor cafe here on the Upper West Side where I live and we saw this dad carrying his daughter in his arms while holding a cigarette in his mouth! I was appalled and almost went up to him to complain but I realized that I cannot be the nicotine police....but that our government can and should be.

I think what I witnessed is a form of child abuse and that if documented and if it occurs repeatedly that parent(s) involved should be separated from their children in order to protect them the same way as if they were beating them or otherwise abusing them.

 

[Voidwar]

I agree! Just the other day my son, nephew and I were eating dinner at an outdoor cafe here on the Upper West Side where I live and we saw this dad carrying his daughter in his arms while holding a cigarette in his mouth! I was appalled and almost went up to him to complain but I realized that I cannot be the nicotine police....but that our government can and should be.

I think what I witnessed is a form of child abuse and that if documented and if it occurs repeatedly that parent(s) involved should be separated from their children in order to protect them the same way as if they were beating them or otherwise abusing them.

Lol then so is a campfire or a barbecue or the fourth of July.

I really wish you had walked up to that guy, , ,
and gotten punched in the mouth.

 

[jallman]

Lol then so is a campfire or a barbecue or the fourth of July.

I really wish you had walked up to that guy, , ,
and gotten punched in the mouth.

I agree...if it had been me and he did that, he would have made a meal of his teeth.

 

[26 X World Champs]

I agree...if it had been me and he did that, he would have made a meal of his teeth.

then you'd be locked away for awhile...what's your address macho man? :2wave:

 

[jallman]

then you'd be locked away for awhile...what's your address macho man? :2wave:

2174 E 56th Avenue, Anchorage...big guy. Want some? :mrgreen:

 

[Voidwar]

I'm blown away to find out there is a town in Alaska that is 56 avenues wide.

 

[jallman]

I'm blown away to find out there is a town in Alaska that is 56 avenues wide.

Hey man...we are up to 104th Avenue since they drained the marsh on the south side of town. :mrgreen:

 

[Monk-Eye]

Mind Control

"Mind Control"

I do not smoke tobacco, but was in line at the store this morning to pick up oatmeal.
There was a man delaying the line while the clerk went into a locked cabinet to get him a pack of cigarettes.
He claimed that if they keep raising the price they will eventually make me quit.

I suggested that he grow his own plants.
He reacted as though the government would descend upon him.
He unassumingly queried whether it was legal to grow tobacco and supposed that he might have to render taxes to posess the plants (perhaps needing a permit).

There are restrictions on the transport of plants across state lines, but seeds carry no restriction, and the internet does not care either way.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Regarding the tangential topic of the cost of smoking, There is a good article on the cost of smoking to society vs non smokers:

Cost of Smoking

ACS :: Smoking Costs US $157 Billion Each Year

For the record, the majority of long hospital stays ( post surgical complications etc.) belong to my smoking patients. Surgeons know that the one of the most predictable factor in determining wether there will be surgical complications ( and therefore greater insurance expense) belong mostly to smokers. Out of 47 employees, the ones who take the most sick days are my smokers , not my overweight employees. My young medical assistants who smoked had the more complicated pregnancies than non smoking counterparts, their babies were in the NICU ( neonatal icus) more than non smoking MAs etc. My elderly patients who smoke have higher rates of hip fractures than their non smoking counterparts, ( cigarettes also affect bone densities). My patients who smoke average 3-5 more hospital days for treatment of pneumonia than non smoking patients with pneumonia ( this is easily tracked by my hospital.). During flu season over 70% of the refractory sinus infections, bronchitis etc belong to my smokers. I could go on and on. Yeah healthy people can break hips and have pneumonia etc. but they sure are a lot easier ( and less expensive) to take care of!


I used to think that smokers did society a favor by killing themselves off early so that they would not develop alzheimers dementia and rot slowly in our medical system but now studies show that if a smoker somehow lives to an elderly age, he is 80% more likely to develop dementia ( both alzheimers and vascular) so smokers still stick it to the system!

Older Smokers Have Higher Dementia Risk, Study Says


I offer a 2000 dollar bonus for my employees to quit smoking. 7/10 of them have quit and 4 years later I notice lower medical insurance premiums since they are no longer over utilizing my office health insurance. ( Many of them were getting prescriptions for colds, bronchitis, recurrent sinus infections) The older ones were being hospitalized for various smoke related illnesses like COPD, etc.)

---
Funny, no one ever asked me if I smoked before an operation.
R.I hospital and Mass General.
BTW: My uncle had a hip replacement in 1992 and in 2005.
He smoked all of his life and he was out in just a few days
He was 83 years old when he had the last operation.