Congress has abandoned its Constitutional prerogative of the power of the purse in regards to tariffs

Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, ....

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

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1. A person or group having administrative or managerial authority in an organization.
2. The chief officer of a government, state, or political division.
3. The branch of government charged with putting into effect a country's laws and the administering of its functions.

Mycroft said:

Congress doesnt want the responsibility.

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Captain Adverse said:

Umm, let me think.... NO!

The Presidency needs the power to act. That is why it is called the Executive Branch:

Executive:

1. A person or group having administrative or managerial authority in an organization.
2. The chief officer of a government, state, or political division.
3. The branch of government charged with putting into effect a country's laws and the administering of its functions.

executive — definition, examples, related words and more at Wordnik

All the words

www.wordnik.com

Executive: relating to the part of a government that is responsible for making sure that laws and decisions are put into action: the executive branch. https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/executive

Executive: belonging to the branch of government that is charged with such powers as diplomatic representation, superintendence of the execution of the laws, and appointment of officials and that usually has some power over legislation (as through veto). https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/executive

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Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

Rich2018 said:

This whole check and balances idea is fundamentally flawed

It's just a recipe foe political inertia. The head of government should set the budget. End of.

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Peter said:

Lets just hope like hell you don't have a President who decides to spend all your money on something really stupid and pointless.

Maybe trying to build a space elevator?

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Rich2018 said:

But doesn't the British Prime Minister (as head of the UK government), approve the national budget for the UK ?

So what's the difference if the US president set the budget for the USA ?

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Peter said:

That would be the chancellor.

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Peter said:

The chancellor makes a budget speach every year setting out the spending policies for the year it's a pretty big event here with a famous red briefcase for the photo op.

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Peter said:

The chancellor gets up in the commons and makes a speach for about a few hours.

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Rich2018 said:

Nope, the Chancellor of the Exchequer merely delivers the budget to Parliament (House of Commons)
Don't fool yourself that he/she slips something in the budget that the PM isn't aware of or hasn't approved.



Of a budget approved (if not co-written) by the PM
The Chancellor of the Exchequer is not usually an accountant, he/she is merely an administrator.



What difference does it make how long it takes him/her ?

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Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

Peter said:

I don't think you understand how important the role of chancellor is in the UK.
They set the budget.
There was friction between the role and the PM during the Blair years.

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Safiel said:

At least the United States Court of International Trade was willing to uphold the law and the Constitutional prerogative of Congress to levy tariffs.

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Rich2018 said:

The Supreme Court has ruled that only Congress can impose tariffs ?

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Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

btthegreat said:

Not to mention the Congressional power to declare war, and the total lack of any enforcement of war powers act as it pertains to the use of military powers.

The founders did not envision an entire branch of the federal govt, seeing a greater self interest in not protecting and wielding its own constitutional authority and powers, and in incrementally surrendering them rather than use them. This an unintended consequence to the 17th amendment ratified in 1913 and modernized media including cable, c-span, and the internet.

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Safiel said:

Long before Trump ever entered the political picture, I spoke against Congress abandoning its power of the purse.

And make no mistake, tariffs are a revenue source, regardless of their intended purpose (revenue, punishment, retaliation).

But Congress has given the President such broad and standing power to levy tariffs, as to have effectively abandoned the power of the purse, to the point of being unconstitutional legislative delegation.

My solution:

Amendment ???

Section 1. Immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment, all existing delegations of discretionary tariff authorities and all extent discretionary tariff authorizations authorized by Act of Congress are hereby repealed. All Presidential Executive Orders, Memorandums and Proclamations levying or authorizing to levy any discretionary tariff are hereby repealed. The Government of the United States shall immediately cease from collecting any discretionary tariffs and all trade of the United States shall pass subject only to non-discretionary, Congressionally determined, tariffs.

Section 2. On the request of the President of the United States for authority to levy a discretionary tariff, Congress may do so by Joint Resolution, which shall be passable by a majority of the total membership of both Houses of Congress, with the votes of all members being recorded in the journals of their respective Houses. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized for a period of longer than ninety days, but may be reauthorized for additional periods of ninety days in like manner to initial authorization. Each Joint Resolution shall designate the specific nation (no more than one per resolution) and the specific products subject to tariff and the percentage of tariff. The President shall proclaim the tariff as authorized by Congress, subject to the ninety day limit. Such tariffs shall expire immediately upon expiration of any Congressional authorization period, when Congress revokes a prior authorization or when the President shall exercise discretion to terminate a tariff prior to its legislative expiration date.

Section 3. No discretionary tariff shall be authorized or levied, unless in direct retaliation for a tariff levy by a foreign nation against the United States or in response to clear and unmistakable unfair trade practices. Retaliatory tariffs shall be identical to the offending foreign tariffs. Tariffs for unfair trade practices shall be proportional to the magnitude of the unfair trade practices. The United States shall never levy a preemptive retaliatory tariff.

Section 4. All nations shall have permanent normal trade relations with the United States, unless the Congress by law shall otherwise decide, except for nations in a state of declared war with the United States or under an authorization for military force duly enacted by Congress.

Section 5. The United States Court of International Trade shall have exclusive original jurisdiction of challenges to discretionary tariffs under this Article of Amendment, such challenges to be considered by three judge panels. The Supreme Court of the United States shall have exclusive and mandatory appellate jurisdiction of such challenges.

Section 6. Sections 2, 3, 4 and 5 of this Article of Amendment shall take effect immediately upon ratification of this Article of Amendment.

Section 7. This Article of Amendment shall not be construed as to impair the ability of the Congress to levy non-discretionary tariffs.

This proposed amendment is consistent with my overall philosophy of greatly reducing the power of the Presidency and enhancing the power and prerogative of the Congress.

Almost all modern era Presidents are guilty of abuse of tariffs, but Trump has pretty much sold the need for this amendment within his first two weeks in office (not to mention his previous term).

Under this amendment, a President would need both Congressional approval and CONTINUING Congressional approval to levy discretionary tariffs. He can't just wake up one morning and threaten China, Mexico, Canada, Columbia or whoever. He has to go to Congress and get permission, which is as it should be. And every 90 days, he would have to go back to Congress to extend that permission.

The Presidency needs to be neutered in so many ways, and this is one big way.

Click to expand...

Girlpower said:

Why do you need an amendment for something Congress can do on their own anytime they want?

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