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Confederate Flag

26 X World Champs

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Re: Nazi Flag

punkyg0608 said:
Good point, truth-bringer. I'd just like to add that Confederate flags are still sold in the United States, and though I was surprised to see them, I decided that the store should be allowed to sell them if they want to. I'd say the same for Nazi flags. I don't like the idea of it, but I don't see any law that the store's are breaking by selling them.
Good point regarding confederate flags. Down South you still see them all the time, they're not necessarily looked down upon despite representing racism.

The whacko logic re confederate flags is that it symbolizes the South. The problem is that the South that it symbolizes were slave owners and bigots and these brilliant people brutalized blacks!

Defending the confederate flag is the same thing as defending racism and segregation.
 

cnredd

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Re: Nazi Flag

Gandhi>Bush said:
I got invited to this protest. It's some protest at a store that is selling Nazi flags. Personally, I wouldn't buy one, but doesn't the first amendment cover this? If you want to own a Nazi flag and be an anti-semitist, go right ahead. You'll probably end up rather lonely, but that's your choice.

Isn't the swastika a religious symbol (hindu/jainist) anyway?

I don't know me and some friends got into a discussion about it.
The Nazis hijacked the swastika from the Hindus much the same way the KKK hijacked the Confederate flag.

If the protest is to get legal action taken against the store, then stay very, very far away...the area will combust in about 20 seconds...

If the protest is to just point out the flags to unsuspecting customers and to deter them (legally) from making purchases there, then have at it...provided you feel strongly enough to want to protest.
 

Arch Enemy

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Re: Nazi Flag

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a piece of cloth, which just so happens to represent the thing I despise most.

While it is the store's right to sell the Nazi flag, it is also your right to protest the selling of this flag, as long as no trespassing happens or any conflicts with people's constitutional rights occurs.
 

ghost

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Re: Nazi Flag

Well Im not agreeing with either side. Because you do have the freedom of speach. And..If you want to be a nazi. Then you have the freedom to be.
 

Simon W. Moon

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Re: Nazi Flag

Arch Enemy said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a piece of cloth, which just so happens to represent the thing I despise most.

While it is the store's right to sell the Nazi flag, it is also your right to protest the selling of this flag, as long as no trespassing happens or any conflicts with people's constitutional rights occurs.
That's about it.
They're free to sell it and you're free to bitch about it.
Of course you both have ot pay your taxes and obey relevant local ordinances etc.

I'd rather no one want to buy one than people be prohibited from selling one.
 

cnredd

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Re: Nazi Flag

Simon W. Moon said:
I'd rather no one want to buy one than people be prohibited from selling one.
cnredd nods in agreement
 

Schweddy

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Re: Nazi Flag

26 X World Champs said:
Good point regarding confederate flags. Down South you still see them all the time, they're not necessarily looked down upon despite representing racism.

The whacko logic re confederate flags is that it symbolizes the South. The problem is that the South that it symbolizes were slave owners and bigots and these brilliant people brutalized blacks!

Defending the confederate flag is the same thing as defending racism and segregation.
This proves your complete lack of historical education.

The flag never has and never will stand for slavery.

I betcha think that the Civil war was about slavery too.
 

cnredd

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Re: Nazi Flag

vauge said:
This proves your complete lack of historical education.

The flag never has and never will stand for slavery.

I betcha think that the Civil war was about slavery too.
Our South, our Confederate history, and by extension, our Confederate battle flag, have suffered for many years from the relentless hatchet job of false propaganda heaped upon them by the news media, the education system, and, of course, Hollywood and television. It appears that they wish to drive a wedge between Southern Blacks and Whites, much as the carpetbaggers did after the War for Southern Independence and much as the Northern news media drove a wedge between the North and South before the War. It is important to remember that movies such as Roots and North and South are make-believe, fiction. In other words, they are not true, just like Uncle Tom's Cabin, written before the War, was not true. One must wonder if the only reason such false propaganda is produced and promoted by the movie and television industry, is to make Blacks hate Whites, especially Southern Whites.

For example, the Confederate battle flag has no more to do with the Ku Klux Klan than the Christian cross which the Klan carries and burns or the flag of the United States that the Klan says the Pledge of Allegiance to, yet the news media and Hollywood constantly try to connect our Confederate flag to the Klan in their propaganda. However, the news media never ask preachers if they are Klan members, because they wear a cross around their necks or link the American Legion to the Klan because they carry the U.S. flag. It is time to put an end to this anti-Confederate bigotry. It is past time that the truth was told. Hitler's tactic of "tell a big enough lie often enough and people will believe it" has been utilized to the fullest extent, to smear the Confederate States of America and her symbols such as the battle flag.


The author then goes on to say some pretty startling "facts"...

The truth is, that nowhere on the face of the earth, in all of history, were servants better treated or better loved than they were in the Old South by White, Black, Hispanic, and Indian slave owners. Yes, even Bla ' eks and Indians owned slaves in the Old South. While 7% of Southern Whites owned slaves, 2% of free Blacks in the South owned slaves. For example, in 1860, the U.S. Census Bureau reported that around 10,000 free Blacks owned some 60,000 Black slaves. It was a Black slave master, named Anthony Johnson, who sued and won his case in a Virginia court in 1653 that changed temporary servitude into lifetime servitude. Thus, this Black slave owner established permanent slavery in Virginia.

Don't know if any of it is true, but if it is, it sure does "blow up" things that have been taught for the last 100 years.

I read the whole thing...It's VERY provacative, but I still can't tell if its "reverse propaganda" or not...A little help?

http://www.pointsouth.com/csanet/confederate_flag.htm
 
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Schweddy

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Re: Nazi Flag

Link? Dunno about the rest of this ... but I do remember reading that there were many black slavery owners.

This quote however is most acurate:
" For example, the Confederate battle flag has no more to do with the Ku Klux Klan than the Christian cross which the Klan carries and burns or the flag of the United States that the Klan says the Pledge of Allegiance to, yet the news media and Hollywood constantly try to connect our Confederate flag to the Klan in their propaganda."
 

Schweddy

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Re: Nazi Flag

Whoa! Looks a little far fetched on some of the old man's idears.

Will have to ingest this further before commenting. From what I have read so far, other than the idea above about the flag - he seems a little off his rocker.
 

cnredd

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Re: Nazi Flag

vauge said:
Whoa! Looks a little far fetched on some of the old man's idears.

Will have to ingest this further before commenting. From what I have read so far, other than the idea above about the flag - he seems a little off his rocker.
Read my earlier posts...My eyes were bulging on some of the things written, too. That's why I requested a little help to digest this stuff.

I can't decide if he is delving deep into the fundamental flaws of our perception of history...or if Cooter smacked him in the dome with a socket wrench.
 

Arch Enemy

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Re: Nazi Flag

As most of you all know, I'm a southern by birth. I for one don't think that the Confederate Flag has anything to do with slavery, it was just a coincidence that the Confederacy Adopted such a flag, and the Confederates main down-fall was slavery.

Even though I don't have a problem with the piece of cloth itself, I do have a problem with people not caring about who they sport their piece of cloth to. I believe if a man is offended because someone is sporting the confederate flag, that it's proper for the one sporting the flag to have a tolerable mentality and stop sporting the flag while in the presence of the one with the problem. The Nazi Flag has as much to do with the Holocaust as the Confederate Flag and Slavery, but I wouldn't sport a Nazi Flag in front of a Jew... does this make any sense.
 

The Truth-Bringer

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Re: Nazi Flag

Yes it does make sense, Often what is fair, correct, or just a small unoticable act , is often overpublicized into a huge political rousing. The flags for instance, as Arch-Enemy pointed out, just like showing a Imperial Japan flag to a Manchurian, A Soviet Flag to a Ukrainian, A American Flag to Terrorists...It just isn't practical. :doh
 

stsburns

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Re: Nazi Flag

I was born south, and I still live in the south. Socially there are some states you can display the flag without persecution. Such as Louisiana, where I was born, even blacks even display the Confederate flag, and are not offended. While where I live now, North Carolina, they were forced to remove the Confederate flag from the state department due to the uprising and hatred by the blacks who live here. So its all about location! It has nothing to do with American History just its amazing how History is offense! Personally I don't have a problem with the selling of Nazi flags, as a matter of fact I think I have a friend that would probably buy one! :wink:
 

cnredd

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Re: Nazi Flag

Arch Enemy said:
Even though I don't have a problem with the piece of cloth itself, I do have a problem with people not caring about who they sport their piece of cloth to. I believe if a man is offended because someone is sporting the confederate flag, that it's proper for the one sporting the flag to have a tolerable mentality and stop sporting the flag while in the presence of the one with the problem. The Nazi Flag has as much to do with the Holocaust as the Confederate Flag and Slavery, but I wouldn't sport a Nazi Flag in front of a Jew... does this make any sense.
Sorry, but this is where you & I part ways....

"The one with the problem" would be very offensive to someone who is proud of their Confederate heritage.

As stated earlier, propaganda MADE the Confederate battle flag an offensive symbol...The actual problem of "the one with the problem" is that he is equating the flag to slavery & racism(the common perception) instead of pride in ancestry(actual truth)...

The person displaying the flag shouldn't have to do anything...especially since "the one with the problem" isn't "in the know"...

If a British-American was displaying the Union Jack, should he take it down because it offends me, an Irish-American.....hardly.
 

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Re: Nazi Flag

Well, display a Jewish flag is offensive to Nazi's...
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Re: Nazi Flag

cnredd said:
As stated earlier, propaganda MADE the Confederate battle flag an offensive symbol...The actual problem of "the one with the problem" is that he is equating the flag to slavery & racism(the common perception) instead of pride in ancestry(actual truth)...
Why did the states secede from the union? Why was the Confederacy formed?

Because they felt that they had a different pride in ancestry and that it would be best for all parties that they were a different country with different laws concerning the right to hold slaves and civil rights and such?

Help me out here.
 

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Re: Nazi Flag

Gandhi>Bush said:
Why did the states secede from the union? Why was the Confederacy formed?

Because they felt that they had a different pride in ancestry and that it would be best for all parties that they were a different country with different laws concerning the right to hold slaves and civil rights and such?

Help me out here.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry?id=10492

Here is a link that may answer your questions. I, admittedly, am very lax in knowledge of the Civil War, to my own detriment. I simply cannot understand some of the "jargon" and need to do further looking.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Re: Nazi Flag

I was being sardonic. My apologies.

The south seceeded basically because they new that the 3rd party(Republicans that's basic idea was to end slavery) candidate, Lincoln, was going to end slavery. This was unnacceptable because the southern economy was built upon the foundation of slavery. That is why the south sucked so much after the civil war. It took a very long time for the south to get back on it's feet.
 

Connecticutter

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Re: Nazi Flag

Gandhi>Bush said:
I was being sardonic. My apologies.

The south seceeded basically because they new that the 3rd party(Republicans that's basic idea was to end slavery) candidate, Lincoln, was going to end slavery. This was unnacceptable because the southern economy was built upon the foundation of slavery. That is why the south sucked so much after the civil war. It took a very long time for the south to get back on it's feet.
Actually, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Lincoln wanted to stop the expansion of slavery. He wasn't even going to end slavery in the south. Anyway, your point still stands.

On the Nazi flag issue, I think anyone has a right own, buy, and sell flags and the like. I hate Nazis, and a protest aimed at defeating them in the battleground of ideas is well in order. I think restricting free speech will just draw more attention to the Nazis that we don't want to give them.
 

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Re: Nazi Flag

Gandhi>Bush said:
That is why the south sucked so much after the civil war. It took a very long time for the south to get back on it's feet.
Don't forget the damaged infrastructure, the exclusion of able, experienced office holders from gaining public positions, the loss of a substantial portion of a generation of able-bodied men, etc.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Re: Nazi Flag

All this is from debate_junkie's link.

The prohibiting of slavery in the states gained in the Louisiana purchase was the Missouri comprimise, which happened in 1820. No doubt it caused a lot of tension. Up until that time the free states and the slave states had equal representation in the senate. So when it was declared that Missouri would be a free state, it messed up the balance as Maine was also just admitted as a free state. All this, I'm sure are contributing factors, but it really hit the fan in the 1860 election. As soon as Lincoln got elected everyone just left.
 

rudy0908

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Re: Nazi Flag

Gandhi>Bush said:
All this is from debate_junkie's link.

The prohibiting of slavery in the states gained in the Louisiana purchase was the Missouri comprimise, which happened in 1820. No doubt it caused a lot of tension. Up until that time the free states and the slave states had equal representation in the senate. So when it was declared that Missouri would be a free state, it messed up the balance as Maine was also just admitted as a free state. All this, I'm sure are contributing factors, but it really hit the fan in the 1860 election. As soon as Lincoln got elected everyone just left.
I'm pretty sure that Missouri was a slave state, not a free state.

According to http://www.princeton.edu/~voteview/momap.html ,

The Compromise allowed Missouri to enter as a slave state, Maine as a free state, and banned slavery in territories north of 36°30' latitude.
 

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Re: Nazi Flag

:3oops: You're absolutely right. I checked again and that's exactly right. It was called the Missouri COMPRIMISE for a reason huh :lol: ?

That doesn't change how I feel about a confedarate flag. The Confedaracy was founded because the southern economy would crumble(and crumble it did) without slavery. That is what the Confedaracy, in my eyes represents. Money over equality.
 
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