HorseLoverGirl
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Most juries don't buy the insanity defense anyway even if the defendant is crazy
SIMON: Do you see anything to suggest an insanity plea in this case?
FOX: No. I would - it's very, very difficult, first of all, to successfully plead insanity in these cases. Generally jury - even if there's compelling evidence that insanity is plausible, juries certainly don't buy it. They look at nine people killed and they believe, not wrongly, but they do believe that someone who will get away with murder if they are found not guilty by reason of insanity. There's nothing here that would suggest that he didn't know what he was doing. And I - an insanity plea, in this case, would in all likelihood fail.
Criminal Justice Professor Discusses Charleston Shooting Suspect Dylann Roof : NPR
The British never really owned the colonies. Since there wasn't any government in the New World the colonists that came over to get away from Britain simply kept following British law among themselves because that's all they knew. Britain itself was too busy having a long war with France to care about the colonies and thought they were just some insignificant backwater outpost full of ignorant, trouble makers. In fact, Britiain used to send their riff raff, pick pockets and petty thieves over to America just to get rid of them. But as soon at the war ended, Britain was broke and needed to find funding and that's when they set their eyes on the colonies for taxation..
The point is the colonists were following British law of their own free will and that's why they didn't have representation in parliament. So when the British started to tax them, the colonists said, fine, but we want representation in your government in return. The British ignored their demands and the colonists got angry and booted the Brits back where they came from. So you see, the colonies never really belonged to the British in the first place.
That's a little different than trying to secede from your country in order to keep human beings in bondage against their will, don't you think?
Now you are twisting off on other tangents after ignoring the previous post:Most juries don't buy the insanity defense anyway even if the defendant is crazy
I read this claim from lots of right wingers, trying to divert the discussion of racism to "mental illness", the problems with this are numerous, above all, this armchair diagnosis has no basis in facts. It is an avoidance of fact, the fact is he indulged in racist rants, surrounded himself in racist paraphernalia, espoused racist rhetoric as he was killing his Black victims.I never said that. I said its obvious that the guy was off his rocker. I don't care if he used any flag out there, he was obviously not all there upstairs. That much should be obvious.
So it's not unusual for someone who is perfectly normal and has no signs of mental illness or defect to sit for an hour with 9 people he's about to intentionally murder. Is that about right?
Now you are twisting off on other tangents after ignoring the previous post:
I read this claim from lots of right wingers, trying to divert the discussion of racism to "mental illness", the problems with this are numerous, above all, this armchair diagnosis has no basis in facts. It is an avoidance of fact, the fact is he indulged in racist rants, surrounded himself in racist paraphernalia, espoused racist rhetoric as he was killing his Black victims.
I suppose one can go back through previous attacks on Black churches and revise the motivations of the assailants to "insanity".....but that would be pure hogwash, just as it would be hogwash to say that the 9-11 hijackers were "mentally ill", that their prime motivation for carrying out their terrorism was not ideology.
No, that is actually YOUR claim to fame if you are defending him with "insanity".If you can pinpoint the exact thoughts going through their heads I would love to know
He sure was. But then....If the British never really owned the colonies then ol' King George was pretty upset when we broke away or refused to pay his taxes.
I don't think it is unusual. People are not criminals until they commit a crime.
they have every right and a new USAToday poll has the nation split down the middle on the issue. So it's not as cut and dry as you think
He who? I'm talking about the mental health system in the US, not a specific person.
[...]there were several leaders of those infantrymen who WERE prosecuted for war crimes but not the infantrymen unless they really did something horrible. Can you even do that much in regards to the Confederates?
In fact, there were nearly 1,000 military tribunals in which Confederates, both regulars and guerrillas, were charged with various violations of the laws of war – mostly related to the treatment of prisoners of war. Some of these trials even led to acquittals. For example, the camp commander at Salisbury Prison, Major John Gee, was arrested in the fall of 1865 and charged with similar crimes as Wirz. Unlike Wirz, Gee was unanimously acquitted in the spring of 1866. After the war, General Grant actually prevented the tribunal of another of Salisbury's commanders, Bradley T. Johnson, who faced charges of negligence at the prison and for burning Chambersburg, Pennsylvania in the summer of 1864. Even among those convicted, Wirz did not stand alone for the atrocities of Andersonville. James Duncan, who worked in the quartermaster's office at Andersonville, was arrested and convicted of manslaughter by a military tribunal for his role in intentionally withholding rations from prisoners. He was sentenced to hard labor at Fort Pulaski, where he escaped a year later.
...
Perhaps the most enduring claim about Henry Wirz is that he was the only person executed by the Federal government in connection with the Civil War. But this was not the case. For example, more than three hundred Sioux Indians were convicted and sentenced to death by military tribunal in 1862. President Lincoln commuted the sentence of most, but in December 1862 thirty eight were hanged by military tribunal in what remains the largest mass execution in American history. Although his execution is the most famous of the Civil War, Wirz was certainly not the only Confederate to be executed. Perhaps most prominent of these other Confederates to be executed was Champ Ferguson, who was convicted in the fall of 1865 for the execution of at least 53 captured Union soldiers, although Ferguson claimed the total was higher. In another high-profile case, Confederate officer Robert Kennedy was executed by a military tribunal for planting explosives around New York City, including heavily trafficked locations like P.T. Barnum's Museum.
So what if they were leaders and/or "a revolutionary"? They still committed MASS MURDER, all in the name of an ideology. That is exactly what the big ****-flinging is about with the Confederate flag: Ideology.
So? They still commited horrendous crimes. Why should they be idolized?
You can't be serious.
Imagine you are black. Imagine you are a citizen of this country. Imagine there was a group of people who used a flag as their representation, who had enslaved you and later on, wanted to kill you or harm you. Now fast forward, and there are people still in that area of the country who wave that same flag.
Are you totally blind to the fact that the one thing affects your co-citizens directly, and has a history in our country....whereas the other things do not? Geez.
The point is not what other things that arise from other countries that people may want to wear or wave or use. That is IRRELEVANT.
The point is the use BY OUR GOVERNMENT of the flag that represented slavery of citizens of our country.
As for why retailers are not selling the Confed. flag, at least temporarily....are you blind to the fact that a bunch of people were just killed on behalf of that flag? Double geez.
Actually, that wouldn't be black folks... that would be native Americans and the flag would be the Stars and Stripes, the US flag.
Don't be ridiculous.
We didn't even have the flag until after the Revolutionary War. Terrorists are not mass murdering Native Americans on behalf of the American Flag. We also never enslaved the Native Americans.
Don't be ridiculous.
We didn't even have the flag until after the Revolutionary War. Terrorists are not mass murdering Native Americans on behalf of the American Flag. We also never enslaved the Native Americans.
Then start a thread about "the mental health system" if you are bringing it up and it has nothing to do with the mass murder that created the Confederacy purge.....
Actually HorseLoverGirl brought it up - so your suggestion is misplaced. And since you decided to muck in with the mental health issue and make a false accusation, you should take your own advice.
It did when I replied to HorseLoverGirl. You decided to involve yourself with that conversation, and then make accusations - not a smart move actually.I was using it as a topic of THIS discussion.
You tried to avoid the question by pretending it has nothing to do with this discussion, or that you weren't talking about anyone in particular, that you were talking about it in a "general sense". When speaking of Mental health in a "general sense", it has nothing to do with this discussion.
Now you want to start talking about Roof - which I have no interest in doing.When speaking about it specific to the individual who killed people who created this "confederacy purge", you cannot support any theory that "the mental health system" could have benefited this situation in the slightest. Because "the mental health system" requires that an individual seek assistance. It cannot do anything for anyone if it is not known that they require assistance.
Sad thing is I can hear my granddaddy turning over in his grave right now. He warned me for years that this kind of thing was gonna happen, and he was sadly right. Of course someone forgot to tell Mitch McConnell that there is at least one monument to President Davis that he cannot get his paws on. I know where it is also.
Your grand pappy warned you that that racist symbol would be removed?
Yes he had that premonition that the symbols of our heritage would come under attack. But my fellow Southerners are doing him proud! I have never seen more Confederate flags flying in my neck of the woods in my life!
Well now, I always though that removing symbols of oppression would be a positive thing. Seems I misunderstood the old man. I guess for all the perceived progress in regards to racism, it's alive and well.
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