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Concealed Carry Failed to Deter Trayvon

Gladiator

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

Generally, concealed carry laws deter crime. What went wrong for Trayvon Martin?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
 

trfjr

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
wouldn't it be best to assume anyone could be armed there for not prudent to start a fight
 

ttwtt78640

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

Generally, concealed carry laws deter crime. What went wrong for Trayvon Martin?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
It may have failed to deter him once, yet it surely stopped any future criminal activities on his part and the resultant publicity will likely have some positive detterent affect on others, so inclined, as well.
 

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

Generally, concealed carry laws deter crime. What went wrong for Trayvon Martin?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
Well. Nice to see this thread, actually. Now that Illinois finally has concealed carry? It pisses me off. (Ha! Never happy, Maggie.)

Maybe others don't think the same way I do. I think they don't because they may think it's a special honor to conceal carry. But when I look at the laws of other states on punishment for NOT having your gun concealed, all the work you have to go to to make sure it doesn't show, it rather pisses me off. There's a difference between your gun showing and brandishing a gun. That's what the law to carry ought to be about: "It's against the law to brandish a carry weapon."

As to Zimmerman/Martin, if it went down the way Zimmerman described, I chalk it up to youthful thuggery. I'm sure, though, that if Zimmerman's gun was visible? We'd have never read about any incident that night.
 

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

Generally, concealed carry laws deter crime. What went wrong for Trayvon Martin?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
Zimmermann failed to say, "I have a ****ing gun."
 

What if...?

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Trayvon had the option to continue to elude Zimmerman, but not knowing Zim was armed, returned to confront Zim, and to attempt to fisticuffs with Zim, Would Trayvon have confronted Zim, if Zim had been wearing a holster outside his jacket? When is the best time to reveal a concealed carry weapon, during the progression of a confrontation and struggle? Apparently, when Trayvon saw the Zim's pistol, Trayvon was already committed to a fight until at least unconditional surrender, excessive bleeding, unconsciousness or death..

Generally, concealed carry laws deter crime. What went wrong for Trayvon Martin?

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/files/files/41.lott_.final_.pdf
This is actually one of the reasons I doubt Zs story.

ANYBODY may be carrying in FL. So attacking a stranger carries HEAVY risk.

I suspect the fight was over the gun from them coming together. That Z went for the gun when M came out of the dark at him. Or that it was unintentionally exposed as he fumbled for his "phone".

Surprise! The weirdo has a GUN! AAAAAAH!
 

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Well. Nice to see this thread, actually. Now that Illinois finally has concealed carry? It pisses me off. (Ha! Never happy, Maggie.)

Maybe others don't think the same way I do. I think they don't because they may think it's a special honor to conceal carry. But when I look at the laws of other states on punishment for NOT having your gun concealed, all the work you have to go to to make sure it doesn't show, it rather pisses me off. There's a difference between your gun showing and brandishing a gun. That's what the law to carry ought to be about: "It's against the law to brandish a carry weapon."

As to Zimmerman/Martin, if it went down the way Zimmerman described, I chalk it up to youthful thuggery. I'm sure, though, that if Zimmerman's gun was visible? We'd have never read about any incident that night.

Can a concealed carry pistol be brandished in self-defense?


Does Brandishing include pointing the pistol at the potential attacker? Or just pointed to a harmless direction?

To brandish or not to brandish?





//
 

MaggieD

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Can a concealed carry pistol be brandished in self-defense?

Does Brandishing include pointing the pistol at the potential attacker? Or just pointed to a harmless direction?

To brandish or not to brandish?

//
Well, in my mind, brandishing would be slinging an AK-47 over your shoulder and walking down Main Street, USA. Walking down the street with your gun in your hand. That kind of thing.

IMO, unless one is hunting or on their way to hunt or target shoot, any gun on one's person should be holstered. And the only time it should be out of the holster should be for the purpose of self-defense.
 

Black Dog

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Well. Nice to see this thread, actually. Now that Illinois finally has concealed carry? It pisses me off. (Ha! Never happy, Maggie.)

Maybe others don't think the same way I do. I think they don't because they may think it's a special honor to conceal carry. But when I look at the laws of other states on punishment for NOT having your gun concealed, all the work you have to go to to make sure it doesn't show, it rather pisses me off. There's a difference between your gun showing and brandishing a gun. That's what the law to carry ought to be about: "It's against the law to brandish a carry weapon."

As to Zimmerman/Martin, if it went down the way Zimmerman described, I chalk it up to youthful thuggery. I'm sure, though, that if Zimmerman's gun was visible? We'd have never read about any incident that night.
In Florida, it is pretty good. If your weapon is accidentally displayed or even displayed for that matter. As long as it was not done in anger, you are all good. In other words don't get into an argument and brandish a weapon before any real threat exists and you will be fine. I have no problem with the Florida statute.
 

Μολὼν λαβέ

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I have a friend living in Florida who has a concealed weapon permit. He was out with his wife one night at dinner. I don't remember where but what I do remember is that he said two not so well intentioned looking young men, both staring directly at him and his wife as they walked toward each other in a not so well lighted parking lot. He decided that pulling back his light jacket and letting them see his holstered 1911 would be a rather fine idea. While opening his jacket he never touched his weapon. He just kept it open until he was sure they both saw it. He said upon seeing it the two "yutes" immediately changed direction and increased their pace to who knows where, which was probably a good thing for all.

Did he brandish his weapon? Maybe. Did he repel an attack? Probably. Was anyone injured? No.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Zimmermann failed to say, "I have a ****ing gun."
Would that have been before he saw Martin? Would that have been before or after Martin jumped out, popped Zimmerman in the face breaking Zimmerman's nose? Would it have been while Z was reaching up to check his broken nose and Martin jumped on him, started beating his bare head against the concrete sidewalk?

Did Martin fail to say, "I have a ****ing fist, then I am going to beat your head against the sidewalk"?
 

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Would that have been before he saw Martin? Would that have been before or after Martin jumped out, popped Zimmerman in the face breaking Zimmerman's nose? Would it have been while Z was reaching up to check his broken nose and Martin jumped on him, started beating his bare head against the concrete sidewalk?

Did Martin fail to say, "I have a ****ing fist, then I am going to beat your head against the sidewalk"?
Zim had time, and could have pulled off his coat when he saw Trayvon approaching him, and could have backed off to a defensive distance, rather than getting in Travon's face with, "What are you doing here??" Zim had time to back off, and take off his jacket, before reaching in his pocket, and getting punched by Trayvon. If Trayvon had seen Zim's gun before Trayvon punched Zim, or before Trayvon saw Zim reaching into his pocket, Trayvon might not have thrown any punches.

Maybe there could be a specific exception from Brandishing, when a Concealed carry permit holder removes his jacket, in a defensive attempt to diffuse a situation.




//
 
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Gaugingcatenate

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Zim had time, and could have pulled off his coat when he saw Trayvon approaching him, and could have backed off to a defensive distance, rather than getting in Travon's face with, "What are you doing here??" Zim had time to back off, and take off his jacket, before reaching in his pocket, and getting punched by Trayvon. If Trayvon had seen Zim's gun before Trayvon punched Zim, or before Trayvon saw Zim reaching into his pocket, Trayvon might not have thrown any punches.

Maybe there could be a specific exception from Brandishing, when a Concealed carry permit holder removes his jacket, in a defensive attempt to diffuse a situation.




//
A lotta woulda-coulda-shouldas we have in this case, perhaps on both sides. I think it obvious that Zimmerman did not bring out his gun, or, as you said, probably Martin would not have thrown the punches. But he did not brandish, Martin did punch, then jump on top and start bashing his head into the concrete. So, without further evidence, Martin is almost assuredly the aggressor and Zimmerman had full right to defend himself. All reasonable people, if they put themselves in the situation, would agree... as did all six jurors.

Fact of the matter is we know Martin was not the innocent saint like character the media and certain groups made him out to be. While you can fault Zimmerman, and wish certain things had happened to avert the outcome, it was all placed in Martin's hands, hands he made into a fist and punched then used to start beating a man's head into a sidewalk... I doubt, at that point, very many people would have done anything much different from what Zimmerman did... not if they wanted to live ...or live somewhat normally.

And as even the semi-recanting juror indicated, this should have never even gone to trial.
 
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