Complaints about the leftist leaning of this forum

[Chomsky]

very interesting bio

From what he's shared, F & L has indeed led an interesting life. IMHO, he embodies the youth spirit of the sixties. We are fortunate to have him amongst us.

 

[Chomsky]

Shall I go pop the corn?

People like us who were once liberals can see how the left infiltrated the Democratic Party and ended liberalism. That's why we left.

Exactly.

These new Democrats see politics in terms of identity, not principles. They simply confirm to the groupthink and their attitudes represent nothing more than conditioned responses.

They should know that OF COURSE shutting down Mom and Pops to feather the nests of the multi-nationals is the furthest thing from liberalism in action, but their little peeps would jump all over their sorry little asses if they ever dared to say so.

I'm not going to jump all the way into these waters with you guys.

But in referring to the Democratic Party, yes - I too believe it needs to put the overarching Liberal ideals (freedom, liberty, etc.) first above all, and open that tent again to more diversity in political lean & ideas. I grew-up with Conservative Dems, and we fit in well with the Party (then). Could that occur today? I don't know. I would hope so.

 

[Chomsky]

I concur.
You know what truly amazes me, Gardener? How many of today's groupthink leftists don't understand that they are not liberals. Like you said, they are conditioned to believe that groupthink is a tenet of liberalism. It is not, and never was. Without the group, the bully pulpit, they are silent as individuals with original thought. Today's liberals generally do not believe in any of the bullet points below.

Understanding Liberal Theory: Definition and Key Characteristics • PolSci Institute

Liberal theory, with its central emphasis on freedom, has evolved over time to address new societal challenges. It is rooted in individualism, advocating liberty from authoritarian restraints. Key tenets of liberalism include the belief in rationality, natural rights, civil liberties, and the...

polsci.institute

Liberalism: A Political Ideology Explained

Liberalism is a political ideology that emphasizes individual rights, liberty, and limited government. It originated in the Enlightenment era and has since become a dominant force in modern political thought. In this guide, we explore the history, core tenets, and criticisms of liberalism, and...

politicalscienceblog.com

Liberalism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I may have just posted, complaining about the Dem Party.

But, where did you come-up with the bolded? It does not reflect reality, from what I can see.

 

[Chomsky]

Lol, Classical Liberals are basically moderate Libertarians. Hard to see how they could end up in MAGA camp, buddying up with the Social Conservatives.

Well, if we believe "Libertarians are those who don't have the guts to be Anarchists", I can kinda' see it.

 

[Along Came Jones]

I'm not going to jump all the way into these waters with you guys.

But in referring to the Democratic Party, yes - I too believe it needs to put the overarching Liberal ideals (freedom, liberty, etc.) first above all, and open that tent again to more diversity in political lean & ideas. I grew-up with Conservative Dems, and we fit in well with the Party (then). Could that occur today? I don't know. I would hope so.

Senator Elissa Slotkin and her speech "A New Vision for the Democratic Party" might offer you some assurance. I'm rather taken by her practicality. The focus is an economic war plan to remove an existential threat to the middle class. Speech is about 25 minutes followed by a 25 minute interview.

 

[Chomsky]

Where have you done that?

You are equating the two like a junior high alumnus.

I am a liberal. I owned three businesses and employed at one time 44 people. THAT is NOT a leftist!

Most of my friends and neighbors are liberal....and anything but leftist. FFS we live in the second most expensive neighborhood in the most expensive city in North America! Because we don't want to have to deal with the kind of ignorant riff raff who think we're leftists!

I hate to admit it, but I don't even know what being a "Leftist" means? No one used the term until recently, and it seems to a be derogatory invective for Righties to hurl as they please.

 

[Chomsky]

On the odd occasion when I might be in their company I pretend to be a South African investor seeking cheap labour.

It's amazing what you can find out.

Haha!

 

[Chomsky]

Yes, Chomsky's excellent too. I was looking for an exception to the average, in terms of political Conservatives who were also handy with language & ideas. Buckley was probably the guy.

From recently: Buckley

Until just recently: Krauthammer

Currently: Will

 

[ModernDiogenes]

To your point, I have seen a fair share hyperbolism coming from my fellow Liberals. But I also have seen some excellent debaters more than holding their own - refusing to budge against fake MAGA's news & lies. MAGA can't move these guys no matter how hard the try, and I suspect that could be troubling for them if they've bought in to fake news and it's become part of their world-view.

It’s not all from the Left though.

There are a fair amount of Conservatives, I count myself among them, who understand ethics and the need for good character in governing.

I believe strongly that we can debate policy until the foes cone gone but ethics and character are more important in governing than that. Bad things happen that require people of good will to resolve them. My belief is that, politics aside, right thinking people - those of good will from string character and good ethics, fund their way to the right things because it is their nature to do so. While bad people of bad character and disdainful ethics will do what they deem profitable, self-serving and/or convenient.

 

[Chomsky]

Bull

Gay marriage, certainly a liberal ideal adding rights and freedoms that have no negative impact on others

Integrated schools, liberals or conservatives democrat ( today’s Democrats not those of the 1960’s south east) or republicans who do you think supports that

Equal rights, just who do you think supports that policy

If people who were democrat in the 70’s and 80’s left and joined the Republican Party it is certainly not about liberalism ( unless single issue gun rights) as the Republican Party has been against every liberal policy introduced over the last 30 years

Some of the Dem hemorrhaging in the 70's & 80's, was racial/cultural. Some was religious. Some was economics (this last was more-so in the Clinton 90's ff).

 

[Old 'N Chill]

Trumpists are the ultimate cowards, like Trump himself.

People with a false sense of what being strong is.

They don’t like to be questioned or refuted in any way and the complaints of a too many leftists drowning out their voices, while I personally feel the forum is drowning in bullshit from these liars, says everything you need to know, except I don’t need to bitch about it all day, I’ll continue to take the fight to them and call them on their bullshit, even though I know that many have blocked me because they are cowards.

They are on the wrong side of history, on virtually every subject.

Well said, I agree. I don't mind members who lean right at all, it's the lying anti-American trump slurpers who constant spread propaganda and want a lawless country that will completely crumble.

I care about our Republic, our democracy, our rule of law, our justice system, our fellow Americans regardless of class, race, religion, gender, etc. There are some who lean right who feel the same, but their silence is deafening.

 

[Chomsky]

I pointed out how they are different. Sheesh.

You lack the intellectual capacity to understand what I said, so you indulge in this snarky dismissal of me with the junior high comment.

Have you ever even HEARD of John Rawls or John Stuart Mill? No? I didn't think so.

I had name recognition with Rawls, but that's about it. Your post set me off researching him.

I was surprised to find-out his major work, "A Theory of Justice", focuses on reconciling the seemingly competing concepts of 'Freedom' & 'Equality', concepts which would seem to be antithetical to each other.

Crazy as it sounds, this is something that has always bothered me! Enough so, that when posting I never write "Equality", but rather write "Equal Opportunity". I actually had this reoccurring writing quandary occur only several posts up!

If Rawl's 1971 book gets reasonable reviews, I'm going to grab it.

Thanks for turning me on, to him.

 

[Chomsky]

Don't be offended, I said I enjoy being here. It's one of the reasons I joined after casual viewing a bit.

View attachment 67577066

I joined, in part, due to the moderation structure in place. I've never seen better.

 

[Chomsky]

The good thing about it being a big tent is all are welcome. Sorry if your lies get shot down though, regardless of affiliation. Can't harass and chase people out just for opposing views or bringing the facts.

I wish there was a political party like this!

 

[Chomsky]

Hi Chomsky,

Thanks for the introduction and explanation of your use of 'Chomsky'. I love listening to that video. And yes, that's what's missing today. But you got to admit, it's missing because only 5% of the people would be willing to listen to this.

5% if that, Joey.

I love how every response to a question is build up. Not just statements. But comparisons and context. Precedent. Facts. And genuine discussion. I miss that today.

But in defence of all politicians, do reporters not also play a very big role in this???

These type of debaters did as you claimed. They developed arguments using reference and context! Presented to audiences who would focus upon, and appreciate these type of persuasive arguments. They were logical arguments, not emotive arguments.

You started with language. I am Dutch and I am really really bad in languages. My English is more or less fluent now, but I learned it on the streets after they had hammered in the basics in high school. I think in English and even dream in English. But my accent.... I had people ask me on a few occasions if I came from Rotterdam in Holland. They could hear that in my English accent. So I have to strongly oppose to your suggestion of sophistication based on accent, because where would this put me.... (please, don't answer. lol.) However, the truth is that I completely agree with your ridiculous notion that Queens English sounds a lot more sophisticated and intelligent. It helps to build trust.

Joey

My reference to "Queens English" is more complex than geographical representation. I was referencing it to "Proper English".

I'm not saying we should use Queens English. Though I think we should do our best to use proper English. I was referring to a time when the way you spoke was a reflection upon oneself, and the respect one would show towards others.

To speak proper English displayed knowledge of the language, grammar, and vocabulary. But most importantly, it showed you were treating the audience with respect. To speak sloppily, in slang & profanity, was seen as disrespectful.

 

[Chomsky]

Senator Elissa Slotkin and her speech "A New Vision for the Democratic Party" might offer you some assurance. I'm rather taken by her practicality. The focus is an economic war plan to remove an existential threat to the middle class. Speech is about 25 minutes followed by a 25 minute interview.

Thanks.

I believe the Dem push should involve a strong economic component - middle & working class focused. It should be a primary component.

If I get a chance, I'll try to scope-out your video tonight.

 

[anatta]

I hate to admit it, but I don't even know what being a "Leftist" means? No one used the term until recently, and it seems to a be derogatory invective for Righties to hurl as they please.

lol. check your wording. leftist and righties in the same sentence

 

[Chomsky]

lol. check your wording. leftist and righties in the same sentence

Yes. I'm aware.

 

[Felis Leo]

I do not care. I do think there may be a plurality of left-wing members here, but I think it has something to do with the fact that so right-wingers who have joined self-select out of membership due to breaking the rules more often since they think rules do not apply to them.

 

[Parker_Chess]

its about 80-20 liberal / left leaning is my belief

and that's fine, I choose to be here

I want to visit your small town Arkansas and growl at you.

 

[southwest88]

From recently: Buckley

Until just recently: Krauthammer

Currently: Will

Yah, Krauthammer was good. His spinal? injury finally caught up with him, I think.

George Will? A good stylist - lots of sports - baseball? - metaphors in his writing. I'm not big on sports, so ...

Mrs. likes to watch the re-incarnation of Firing Line on PBS. A mistake, I think. The hostess & the show invoke Buckley @ every turn, with clips & etc. Bad form - to me, that just invites comparisons, & she never comes off in first place. Wiser, I think, to have named it something else, & quit running the clips. Let the show & host stand or fall on their own merits.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I hate to admit it, but I don't even know what being a "Leftist" means? No one used the term until recently, and it seems to a be derogatory invective for Righties to hurl as they please.

"Leftist elite" or "gauche elite'" - First coined to identify the debating society in Paris in the 16th century. One group, wealthy nobles met on the Riviere droit, while working class students met on the other side - Riveiere gauche.

The working class were called "populists" as they spoke for the common man (an intended slur at the time). The other guys were named "elite' or "elitist".

 

[Chomsky]

Yah, Krauthammer was good. His spinal? injury finally caught up with him, I think.

Actually, he lost a battle to cancer.

It's our great loss Krauthammer passed before he could make substantial progress on his book. A biography of a world leading political commenter & political scientist, describing his journey from Radical Lefty to Conservative Icon. What a journey that must have been!

RIP, Charles.

George Will? A good stylist - lots of sports - baseball? - metaphors in his writing. I'm not big on sports, so ...

Yep. I always find George Will to be a calm, sensible, clear, voice of reason.

Mrs. likes to watch the re-incarnation of Firing Line on PBS. A mistake, I think. The hostess & the show invoke Buckley @ every turn, with clips & etc. Bad form - to me, that just invites comparisons, & she never comes off in first place. Wiser, I think, to have named it something else, & quit running the clips. Let the show & host stand or fall on their own merits.

I wasn't aware! Thanks! I'll try to check it out.

--

And while we're discussing quality Conservative voices, I've found Bret Baier's discussion panels on "Nightly Report" to be pretty good. His is the only Fox segment I watch for my own viewing. Anything else is just recon!

 

[Chomsky]

"Leftist elite" or "gauche elite'" - First coined to identify the debating society in Paris in the 16th century. One group, wealthy nobles met on the Riviere droit, while working class students met on the other side - Riveiere gauche.

The working class were called "populists" as they spoke for the common man (an intended slur at the time). The other guys were named "elite' or "elitist".

Thanks.

I'm used to Right-Left, i.e. Conservative-Liberal.

But in this thread Trumpers and yourself seem to be distinguishing between Liberal & Leftist, whereas I see no difference between Liberal & Left, and conjugating Left to Leftist seems to be some kind of MAGA slur.

 

[Artymoon]

I joined, in part, due to the moderation structure in place. I've never seen better.

Agreed. Moderation here is top notch in my opinion and certainly not an easy job with all of us aholes running around.