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Comparing Afghanistan and Ukraine

KevinKohler

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?
 

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?

It's a Toyota Hilux

hilux-revolutionary-marketing.jpeg
 

Grand Mal

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?
Afghans don't do pitched battles, army vs. army. Afghans have been hiding beside a road waiting for their enemy to come along since Alexander the Great. Arabs, Mongols, Persians, Brits, Russians, Americans, the Afghans have fought them all on their own terms and prevailed. Look at now- 20 years, four American Presidents, thousands of lives and trillions of dollars later and it's like nobody else has ever been there except Afghans.
 

Antiwar

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Ukranians: white; majority Christian; European; Western; seem middle class; seem democratic; enemy of one of the USG's many enemies.

Afghanis: brown; majority Islamic; Asian; Middle Eastern; seem poorer; don't seem democratic; probability has it that they're the enemy of several of the USG's many enemies.
 

ttwtt78640

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?

Hmm… how long would you continue to work with no paycheck (your boss left the country with millions) and after your foreign support crews had left the country? Might that be a good time to sell your (company provided) tools and go find another job? ;)
 

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The validity of an analogy depends not merely on what is being analogized, but on what the point of the analogy is.

This is why people who go to threads about a literal insurrection (even if derpy) to announce that people used protesters as shields to go a'criming in 2021 are so horribly shitty. They know it's not a comparison because everything but a proposition - a category of person (criminal) is doing a thing (going a'criming) - is different.



This one does not seem to be like that.

I would say that this is worse for Russia than Afghanistan, or at least I certainly hope so. I'd say that in light of things OP said, and others to boot. For whatever set of reasons, Afghans on average seem to mind Taliban rule less than they mind fighting the Taliban. Ukranians obviously feel differently. But everything is different. Every last detail.

If we abstract out to the point of saying that Ukraine will be painful for Russia, perhaps prohibitively so, then we are on solid ground. But these are extremely different conflicts. And if you want to point out that Ukranians have righteousness and justice on their side, but the Taliban do not....don't; the question is not objectively what is correct, but what subjectively the combatants believe regardless of truth. That's that part of the analysis. Belief excuses nothing outright, but it must be considered.
 
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Mr Person

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Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?
Wanting freedom? Too many circumstances are different. Afghans were forced to decide with whether living under the tribal law of the Taliban was more evil, or whether living under a US war against the Taliban with uncertain prospects, in which US-helpers faced certain torture and people who kept their heads down didn't, was more evil. That's just one little tidbit.

Each is utterly different from the other. I'd hope the Ukranians have far more on their side. These are citizens rising up to defend themselves. Afghanistan... that was the people who would rule all doing the same, but not the people, or at least not all of them.But then, different everything; country, army, cause, manner of attack, manner of resistance, every everything.




Their motive is probably the most relevant thing. So it's a "yes" for other reasons. Russia murdered their children and the children of their countrymen. Their souls are on fire. And may their strokes fall fell.
 

KevinKohler

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Hmm… how long would you continue to work with no paycheck (your boss left the country with millions) and after your foreign support crews had left the country? Might that be a good time to sell your (company provided) tools and go find another job? ;)
Did Ukraine do that?


They could. The free shit they're getting is expensive.
 

sanman

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?

I don't think you understand the fundamentals about these wars. It just goes to show how ignorant you are.

In the Afghan conflict, US taxpayers were funding both sides of the war. US taxpayers were funding the US military, and US taxpayers were funding the Taliban
Billions of US taxpayer dollar were going to Pakistan, which was secretly funding the Taliban, which was killing US & Afghan military personnel.
How would you expect the Afghan military or the Afghan people to win against an enemy that was being funded by the richest and most powerful country in the world? Even the US military couldn't do that.

"We defeated America, with the help of America"
-unnamed ISI official
 

KevinKohler

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I don't think you understand the fundamentals about these wars. It just goes to show how ignorant you are.

In the Afghan conflict, US taxpayers were funding both sides of the war. US taxpayers were funding the US military, and US taxpayers were funding the Taliban
Billions of US taxpayer dollar were going to Pakistan, which was secretly funding the Taliban, which was killing US & Afghan military personnel.
How would you expect the Afghan military or the Afghan people to win against an enemy that was being funded by the richest and most powerful country in the world? Even the US military couldn't do that.

"We defeated America, with the help of America"
-unnamed ISI official
Citation for this?
 

KevinKohler

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Sure just google How To Lose A War in the Most ****ing Stupidest Way Possible :rolleyes:
I did that, but only a bunch of pro Ukrain, anti Russia stories popped up.

Got anything else?
 

Chainsawmassacre

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?
The difference is stark. Afghanistan through down their weapons and submitted without a whimper. **** em. They don't deserve freedom and liberty if they won't fight for it. Ukraine picked up guns and took on the worlds 2nd largest military to retain their freedom. They deserve the liberty they fight for and deserve our help.
 

sanman

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I did that, but only a bunch of pro Ukrain, anti Russia stories popped up.

Got anything else?

Gee, man - I empathize with your spam problem - there's a new war on, and the focus is now on spinning that, so that's what all the search results will pull up.
You may just have to go directly talk to the ISI or even just Washington bureaucrats, and hope they don't shit themselves giggling over what they pulled off.

 

KevinKohler

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Gee, man - I empathize with your spam problem - there's a new war on, and the focus is now on spinning that, so that's what all the search results will pull up.
You may just have to go directly talk to the ISI or even just Washington bureaucrats, and hope they don't shit themselves giggling over what they pulled off.


So, is Fox News, REAL news?

But everything else is fake?
 

sanman

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So, is Fox News, REAL news?

But everything else is fake?

any source I present you will simply be attacked by you as fake, so let's not bother

because none of the content being discussed is anything you're capable of taking issue with
 

KevinKohler

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any source I present you will simply be attacked by you as fake, so let's not bother

because none of the content being discussed is anything you're capable of taking issue with
Uh huh.

Or, maybe...I'd point out to you that fox News has reported that RUSSIA, not Ukraine, has bombed hospitals, apartment buildings, shot up cars with families, ran over them with tanks, etc.

But you're right. It's all false flag, Ukrainians are out there killing ukrainians...to garner international sympathy and support.
 

HangLow

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So, there was much ado about how we "abandoned" the Afghans, and how it was OUR fault that they were over run, and therefore, our fault, that they are subdued, tortured, and in general, abused by the Taliban.

So, my question is fairly simple. Was/is the taliban a better army than Russia? Ukraine is still holding out, despite not having BILLIONS in US arms, munitions, and equipment, not to mention, 20 years of training....against RUSSIA. The Afghan army folded in 3 days. Is that because they sucked at fighting? Is there something about ukrainians that make them great at fighting? Or, is it that dudes in toyota tundras with AKs, NO air force, no tanks, no armor of any kind, no artillery, etc, makes for a more effective fighting force than, like, HAVING all of those things?

Or...could it be...the Ukrainians WANT their freedom more than the Afghans?
1648842138498.png
 
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