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Common Core Teachers Taught to Praise Wrong Answers Like ’3 x 4 was 11’

Wehrwolfen

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By Michael Schaus
August 19, 2013

Apparently, under the new Common-Core standards, correct answers don’t really matter. At least that’s according to a “curriculum coordinator” in Chicago named Amanda August. “Even if [a student] said, ’3 x 4 was 11,’ if they were able to explain their reasoning and explain how they came up with their answer really in, umm, words and oral explanation, and they showed it in the picture but they just got the final number wrong, we’re really more focused on the how,” said the common core supporter and typical liberal, Amanda. Off course this reasoning explains quite a bit regarding our nation’s 16 trillion dollar debt, and Nancy Pelosi’s assertion that Obamacare was a “deficit reducer.” When you consider that our finest economic leaders in the Federal Reserve, and the White House, think spending more money will result in fewer deficits, teaching that 3 x 4 = 11 (if you explain it well) isn’t really much of a stretch.

Common Core: Wrong Answer Are fine - Longer

The left has long sought to bolster self-esteem by downplaying wrong answers in education. Everyone gets a ribbon; a truly disastrous lesson to teach when not everyone is capable of getting a job. And while the how is important in any lesson plan, in the end, the answer should still be correct. Amanda’s students are going to be in for a world of surprise when their first employer decides that doing the job correctly is more important than demonstrating “with words” an employee’s fundamental failure to grasp the concept of their task.

To the credit of the presumably leftists audience, someone asked if teachers will still be correcting students on math tests. The simple fact that someone had to ask the question should demonstrate the atrocious nature of American education reform. The question “are we still going to correct wrong answers” would seem incomprehensible in a system of honest instruction. Amanda, however, stumbles through a very entertaining non-answer:

“We want our students to compute correctly but the emphasis is really moving more towards the explanation, and the how, and the why, and ‘can I really talk through the procedures that I went through to get this answer; and not just knowing that it’s 12, but why is it 12? How do I know that?”

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Common Core Teachers Taught to Praise Wrong Answers Like

Isn't this the same with English Composition and spelling. Then we also consider Social Studies with revised American and World history and the exclusion of Geography.
 
I really like that whole Leaving Certificate/Qualifax set up to education that Ireland has. It is a little complicated to explain, but it is a great academic filter. Americans would hate it though because it would restrict people's major option once they hit University unless they were an "older" student returning to school who had obtained life experiences in the field in which they want to major.
 
I've convinced myself that it's all part of a giant government conspiracy. See, they figure that if they make kids stupid then those kids will be more reliant on the government which allows the folks who come up with this crap to keep their jobs instead of getting voted.
 
By Michael Schaus
August 19, 2013

Apparently, under the new Common-Core standards, correct answers don’t really matter. At least that’s according to a “curriculum coordinator” in Chicago named Amanda August. “Even if [a student] said, ’3 x 4 was 11,’ if they were able to explain their reasoning and explain how they came up with their answer really in, umm, words and oral explanation, and they showed it in the picture but they just got the final number wrong, we’re really more focused on the how,” said the common core supporter and typical liberal, Amanda. Off course this reasoning explains quite a bit regarding our nation’s 16 trillion dollar debt, and Nancy Pelosi’s assertion that Obamacare was a “deficit reducer.” When you consider that our finest economic leaders in the Federal Reserve, and the White House, think spending more money will result in fewer deficits, teaching that 3 x 4 = 11 (if you explain it well) isn’t really much of a stretch.

Common Core: Wrong Answer Are fine - Longer

The left has long sought to bolster self-esteem by downplaying wrong answers in education. Everyone gets a ribbon; a truly disastrous lesson to teach when not everyone is capable of getting a job. And while the how is important in any lesson plan, in the end, the answer should still be correct. Amanda’s students are going to be in for a world of surprise when their first employer decides that doing the job correctly is more important than demonstrating “with words” an employee’s fundamental failure to grasp the concept of their task.

To the credit of the presumably leftists audience, someone asked if teachers will still be correcting students on math tests. The simple fact that someone had to ask the question should demonstrate the atrocious nature of American education reform. The question “are we still going to correct wrong answers” would seem incomprehensible in a system of honest instruction. Amanda, however, stumbles through a very entertaining non-answer:

“We want our students to compute correctly but the emphasis is really moving more towards the explanation, and the how, and the why, and ‘can I really talk through the procedures that I went through to get this answer; and not just knowing that it’s 12, but why is it 12? How do I know that?”

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Common Core Teachers Taught to Praise Wrong Answers Like

Isn't this the same with English Composition and spelling. Then we also consider Social Studies with revised American and World history and the exclusion of Geography.

Anyone who has a problem with this isn't thinking through the issue they're addressing.

Two things this approach is countering: 1) the excessive reliance on computers to do the math for us (calculators, etc) and 2) Reliance on memory and nothing else. (this 2nd one is a very new issue that's come up in the last ten years and, in some places, it has put a lot of students at serious risk)

My Law Professor a few years ago complained that the ability for students to reason through given facts and arrive at the right answer by applying what they do know to a new situation is becoming more difficult, and they're less successful. This is because of the insistence that 'students should memorize everything' - Today's students go through memory exercises to learn math facts and everything else. They're losing their ability to reason, think, and figure it out. Everything is presented as 'a list of answers' . . . repeat, repeat.

What if they weren't taught 12 x 14? You know what, a lot of students today would struggle to sort that out because it wasn't drilled into their heads that '12 times 14 is 168' - Oh, but they can spit out what's '10 x 2' and '3 x 7' in a fraction of a second. When they do this, automatically reciting the learned fact, they're not thinking it through in their head, they're just reciting a silly song. . . this has distanced them from math. . . which fails to exercise critical thinking skills, logic, reasoning, and directional knowledge (step #1, then step #2). All in all - students, today, struggle where students 40 years ago had less issues.

Our approach to teaching has weather away the student's understanding of how and why 12 is the correct answer. It 'just is' - tsk tsk.

I haven't approved of our 'repeat-repeat' method in years. It's come around because of teacher's being under the gun, their jobs on the line, due to standardized testing. They've been teaching 'to the test' more and more - which shorts a child on their education overall.

Only if you have kids in school will you notice this striking difference between how most of us were taught, vs how students are taught today. even then, I think some parents don't see it - but it's a serious problem.

To do math, and anything else requiring the same level of thought process, they MUST understand HOW it works before you can worry too much about the right answer.

They should be able to compute numbers like 12 x 4, 14 x 25, and 125 x 35 - without having a serious emotional breakdown because they didn't memorize the answer with a song and flashcards.

Some people don't realize that learning is a process - and it's complicated. If you slack on one aspect of the 'how to learn' essentials in the beginning, your child will struggle. They will never develop the necessary skills if these aren't enforced early on.


What's 7 x 2?
14

Why? This answer is essential.
 
Last edited:
So you prefer children to learn calculations and not the underlying mathematics/theory? This is an age-old debate and it's not liberal vs conservative. You cannot know which method is best unless you know the specifics of how they will use it or not, some 10-20 years later. Both are ultimately essential, for different reasons. It's like wondering which is better, the command of the facts, or the best reasoning methodology.

I don't think this falls into the "everybody gets a ribbon" category, I think it falls into knowing more of the theory and why, vs purely drilling on accurate calculations.

I was always miffed when I got no credit for a very lengthy word problem where all the methods were correct, but I did some stupid long hand calculation error ;)
 
So you prefer children to learn calculations and not the underlying mathematics/theory? This is an age-old debate and it's not liberal vs conservative. You cannot know which method is best unless you know the specifics of how they will use it or not, some 10-20 years later. Both are ultimately essential, for different reasons. It's like wondering which is better, the command of the facts, or the best reasoning methodology.

I don't think this falls into the "everybody gets a ribbon" category, I think it falls into knowing more of the theory and why, vs purely drilling on accurate calculations.

I was always miffed when I got no credit for a very lengthy word problem where all the methods were correct, but I did some stupid long hand calculation error ;)

Yep - back in my day teachers would give partial credit if you just missed the answer but all 10 steps of your equation were otherwise done correctly. This did two things: helped me realize I wasn't 100% wrong, and encouraged me not to slack just because I didn't get the answer right.
 
Her answer makes little sense.

If a student was able to " talk through the problem " and establish how they arrived at the wrong answer, then they would still have to be corrected.

Maybe math is a bad example. The objective of math is the answer, which isn't arrived at through subjective definitions or opinions.

My Calculus teacher in High School had a sign on his wall ( Mathematics is not a Democracy ) and it's why it's always been one of my favorite subjects.

What they're doing in Chicago is justifying the condition of their schools and their students with this nonsense that the right answer is not important.
 
Anyone who has a problem with this isn't thinking through the issue they're addressing.

Two things this approach is countering: 1) the excessive reliance on computers to do the math for us (calculators, etc) and 2) Reliance on memory and nothing else. (this 2nd one is a very new issue that's come up in the last ten years and, in some places, it has put a lot of students at serious risk)

My Law Professor a few years ago complained that the ability for students to reason through given facts and arrive at the right answer by applying what they do know to a new situation is becoming more difficult, and they're less successful. This is because of the insistence that 'students should memorize everything' - Today's students go through memory exercises to learn math facts and everything else. They're losing their ability to reason, think, and figure it out. Everything is presented as 'a list of answers' . . . repeat, repeat.

What if they weren't taught 12 x 14? You know what, a lot of students today would struggle to sort that out because it wasn't drilled into their heads that '12 times 14 is 168' - Oh, but they can spit out what's '10 x 2' and '3 x 7' in a fraction of a second. When they do this, automatically reciting the learned fact, they're not thinking it through in their head, they're just reciting a silly song. . . this has distanced them from math. . . which fails to exercise critical thinking skills, logic, reasoning, and directional knowledge (step #1, then step #2). All in all - students, today, struggle where students 40 years ago had less issues.

Our approach to teaching has weather away the student's understanding of how and why 12 is the correct answer. It 'just is' - tsk tsk.

I haven't approved of our 'repeat-repeat' method in years. It's come around because of teacher's being under the gun, their jobs on the line, due to standardized testing. They've been teaching 'to the test' more and more - which shorts a child on their education overall.

Only if you have kids in school will you notice this striking difference between how most of us were taught, vs how students are taught today. even then, I think some parents don't see it - but it's a serious problem.

To do math, and anything else requiring the same level of thought process, they MUST understand HOW it works before you can worry too much about the right answer.

They should be able to compute numbers like 12 x 4, 14 x 25, and 125 x 35 - without having a serious emotional breakdown because they didn't memorize the answer with a song and flashcards.

Some people don't realize that learning is a process - and it's complicated. If you slack on one aspect of the 'how to learn' essentials in the beginning, your child will struggle. They will never develop the necessary skills if these aren't enforced early on.


What's 7 x 2?
14

Why? This answer is essential.

I think you're missing what's happening.

We're not talking about a new way of teaching here. We're talking about a new way of evaluating a child's proficiency. This process allows the system to pass kids through that exhibit little to no proficiency in a discipline as long as they can figure out some kind of bull**** excuse for not being proficient.
 
Anyone who has a problem with this isn't thinking through the issue they're addressing.

Two things this approach is countering: 1) the excessive reliance on computers to do the math for us (calculators, etc) and 2) Reliance on memory and nothing else. (this 2nd one is a very new issue that's come up in the last ten years and, in some places, it has put a lot of students at serious risk)

My Law Professor a few years ago complained that the ability for students to reason through given facts and arrive at the right answer by applying what they do know to a new situation is becoming more difficult, and they're less successful. This is because of the insistence that 'students should memorize everything' - Today's students go through memory exercises to learn math facts and everything else. They're losing their ability to reason, think, and figure it out. Everything is presented as 'a list of answers' . . . repeat, repeat.

What if they weren't taught 12 x 14? You know what, a lot of students today would struggle to sort that out because it wasn't drilled into their heads that '12 times 14 is 168' - Oh, but they can spit out what's '10 x 2' and '3 x 7' in a fraction of a second. When they do this, automatically reciting the learned fact, they're not thinking it through in their head, they're just reciting a silly song. . . this has distanced them from math. . . which fails to exercise critical thinking skills, logic, reasoning, and directional knowledge (step #1, then step #2). All in all - students, today, struggle where students 40 years ago had less issues.

Our approach to teaching has weather away the student's understanding of how and why 12 is the correct answer. It 'just is' - tsk tsk.

I haven't approved of our 'repeat-repeat' method in years. It's come around because of teacher's being under the gun, their jobs on the line, due to standardized testing. They've been teaching 'to the test' more and more - which shorts a child on their education overall.

Only if you have kids in school will you notice this striking difference between how most of us were taught, vs how students are taught today. even then, I think some parents don't see it - but it's a serious problem.

To do math, and anything else requiring the same level of thought process, they MUST understand HOW it works before you can worry too much about the right answer.

They should be able to compute numbers like 12 x 4, 14 x 25, and 125 x 35 - without having a serious emotional breakdown because they didn't memorize the answer with a song and flashcards.

Some people don't realize that learning is a process - and it's complicated. If you slack on one aspect of the 'how to learn' essentials in the beginning, your child will struggle. They will never develop the necessary skills if these aren't enforced early on.


What's 7 x 2?
14

Why? This answer is essential.

Whatever happened to teachers telling the students to put away their calculators and cell phones?
 
Her answer makes little sense.

If a student was able to " talk through the problem " and establish how they arrived at the wrong answer, then they would still have to be corrected.

Maybe math is a bad example. The objective of math is the answer, which isn't arrived at through subjective definitions or opinions.

My Calculus teacher in High School had a sign on his wall ( Mathematics is not a Democracy ) and it's why it's always been one of my favorite subjects.

What they're doing in Chicago is justifying the condition of their schools and their students with this nonsense that the right answer is not important.

Why? If you deduce the wrong answer then maybe talking through it will help you figure out how it's wrong, and later, that understanding will help you improve your skills, rather than just trying to dedicate that one correct answer to memory. For all multiplication - the process is the same.
"You take ___ number - and count it ___ times" - if they don't understand that, then they don't actually 'get it' even if they can tell you 5 x 2 is 10.

The objective of math isn't only the answer - it might seem that way when you're talking about 4 x 3. But in just a few years that same child will learn division, which is multi-step. Fractions. Decimal values. Then problems that involve combining all of the above. Parenthesis. Long Division bars. Ordered pairs. Multiplicative inverse.

The basics of math require you understand how you do the problem, and how you arrive at the correct answer. If you just teach it with songs and flashcards, pretty soon that memorization will run it's course and will be useless when they start using formulas and substitution.
 
So you prefer children to learn calculations and not the underlying mathematics/theory? This is an age-old debate and it's not liberal vs conservative. You cannot know which method is best unless you know the specifics of how they will use it or not, some 10-20 years later. Both are ultimately essential, for different reasons. It's like wondering which is better, the command of the facts, or the best reasoning methodology.

I don't think this falls into the "everybody gets a ribbon" category, I think it falls into knowing more of the theory and why, vs purely drilling on accurate calculations.

I was always miffed when I got no credit for a very lengthy word problem where all the methods were correct, but I did some stupid long hand calculation error ;)


Oh come on. When has math fundamentals ever NOT been taught? We all went through the 2*3=2+2+2 process in our schooling.
 
Yep - back in my day teachers would give
partial credit if you just missed the
answer but all 10 steps of your equation were otherwise done correctly. This did two things: helped me realize I wasn't 100% wrong, and encouraged me not to slack just because I didn't get the answer right.

Really ??!!

We recieved great redmarks and bad grades which encouraged us to correct our mistakes.

If you get into some of the higher mathematics where one problem can take pages of problem solving, a wrong answer its indicative of a faulty process.

I was never put off by mistakes but encouraged to correct them by the classical methods of teaching which also taught me about the world after my education.
 
Yep - back in my day teachers would give partial credit if you just missed the answer but all 10 steps of your equation were otherwise done correctly. This did two things: helped me realize I wasn't 100% wrong, and encouraged me not to slack just because I didn't get the answer right.

Could it have possibly been thast the teachers wanted to see your work so they could figure out what part of the process you were still unclear on?
 
Oh come on. When has math fundamentals ever NOT been taught? We all went through the 2*3=2+2+2 process in our schooling.

Very recently some schools paid less attention to that, and stopped.
 
Very recently some schools paid less attention to that, and stopped.

They stopped that? You mean they just had kids memorize basic multiplication tables? I don't see why they'd do that as it would take more time....unless they just were teaching kids how to use calculators and Excel.
 
I really like that whole Leaving Certificate/Qualifax set up to education that Ireland has.
It is a little complicated to explain, but it is a great academic filter. Americans would hate it though because it would restrict people's major option once they hit University unless they were an "older" student returning to school who had obtained life experiences in the field in which they want to major.




I certainly agree that almost anything is better than what people like Wehrwolfen would like to put in place.
 
So you prefer children to learn calculations and not the underlying mathematics/theory? This is an age-old debate and it's not liberal vs conservative. You cannot know which method is best unless you know the specifics of how they will use it or not, some 10-20 years later. Both are ultimately essential, for different reasons. It's like wondering which is better, the command of the facts, or the best reasoning methodology.

I don't think this falls into the "everybody gets a ribbon" category, I think it falls into knowing more of the theory and why, vs purely drilling on accurate calculations.

I was always miffed when I got no credit for a very lengthy word problem where all the methods were correct, but I did some stupid long hand calculation error ;)

Mutiplication is not a theory, complex operation or a "word problem" it is simply basic math, the only correct answer to 3 X 4 is 12, not almost 12 or any number that is "reasonably close" to 12. How could one "reason it out" and not come up with 12? 4 + 4 is 8, so if you add 3 more then that is 11? ;)
 
It seems silly to expect extrapolation of the underline logic without first a memorization of the basic methodology. If you can't get the correct answer while giving some explanation of your logic, it
would seem to be that you're just BSing.

Mach said:
So you prefer children to learn calculations and not the underlying mathematics/theory? This is an age-old debate and it's not liberal vs conservative. You cannot know which method is best unless you know the specifics of how they will use it or not, some 10-20 years later. Both are ultimately essential, for different reasons. It's like wondering which is better, the command of the facts, or the best reasoning methodology.

I don't think this falls into the "everybody gets a ribbon" category, I think it falls into knowing more of the theory and why, vs purely drilling on accurate calculations.

I was always miffed when I got no credit for a very lengthy word problem where all the methods were correct, but I did some stupid long hand calculation error.

It appear to me that even the logic being correct is not essential. "As long as the student can explain how they reached the answer" sounds to me like it's not just partial credit for having the logic right but making an arithmetic error. Besides, this IS arithmetic; I don't see how one can error except in their logic in this case.
 
By Michael Schaus
August 19, 2013

Apparently, under the new Common-Core standards, correct answers don’t really matter. At least that’s according to a “curriculum coordinator” in Chicago named Amanda August. “Even if [a student] said, ’3 x 4 was 11,’ if they were able to explain their reasoning and explain how they came up with their answer really in, umm, words and oral explanation, and they showed it in the picture but they just got the final number wrong, we’re really more focused on the how,” said the common core supporter and typical liberal, Amanda. Off course this reasoning explains quite a bit regarding our nation’s 16 trillion dollar debt, and Nancy Pelosi’s assertion that Obamacare was a “deficit reducer.” When you consider that our finest economic leaders in the Federal Reserve, and the White House, think spending more money will result in fewer deficits, teaching that 3 x 4 = 11 (if you explain it well) isn’t really much of a stretch.

Common Core: Wrong Answer Are fine - Longer

The left has long sought to bolster self-esteem by downplaying wrong answers in education. Everyone gets a ribbon; a truly disastrous lesson to teach when not everyone is capable of getting a job. And while the how is important in any lesson plan, in the end, the answer should still be correct. Amanda’s students are going to be in for a world of surprise when their first employer decides that doing the job correctly is more important than demonstrating “with words” an employee’s fundamental failure to grasp the concept of their task.

To the credit of the presumably leftists audience, someone asked if teachers will still be correcting students on math tests. The simple fact that someone had to ask the question should demonstrate the atrocious nature of American education reform. The question “are we still going to correct wrong answers” would seem incomprehensible in a system of honest instruction. Amanda, however, stumbles through a very entertaining non-answer:

“We want our students to compute correctly but the emphasis is really moving more towards the explanation, and the how, and the why, and ‘can I really talk through the procedures that I went through to get this answer; and not just knowing that it’s 12, but why is it 12? How do I know that?”

[Excerpt]

Read more:
Common Core Teachers Taught to Praise Wrong Answers Like

Isn't this the same with English Composition and spelling. Then we also consider Social Studies with revised American and World history and the exclusion of Geography.

If my daughter came up with 3 x 4 = 11, I'd listen to her explanation of how she came up with it and show her the error of her ways -- while, at the same time commending her for her thought process. That's called positive reinforcement.

Taken out of context? It sounds ridiculous. Bring it on home? And it makes sense.
 
If my daughter came up with 3 x 4 = 11, I'd listen to her explanation of how she came up with it and show her the error of her ways -- while, at the same time commending her for her thought process. That's called positive reinforcement.

Taken out of context? It sounds ridiculous. Bring it on home? And it makes sense.

You are one of the few in America that continue to be involved in the education of their children.
 
Very recently some schools paid less attention to that, and stopped.

And it shows. Those are NOT the areas that have higher performing schools and students.

Because a higher performing student and or school has little to do with money or status, and more to do with the standards set by the students parents.

These College educated parents would think that their kids have been given the run around, that they were cheated and they wouldn't tolerate it.

This is just a excuse for the continued failure of schools that are prevalent in low income areas.
 
If my daughter came up with 3 x 4 = 11, I'd listen to her explanation of how she came up with it and show her the error of her ways -- while, at the same time commending her for her thought process. That's called positive reinforcement.

Taken out of context? It sounds ridiculous. Bring it on home? And it makes sense.

I think the difference is the role of the parent as opposed to the educator. For instance, I assume you don't give your kid grades either to access rather they have adequate knowledge for their respective education level. The teacher needs to teach the kids HOW to multiply before they have deep discussions on the fundamental logic of multiplication.
 
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