Comments during Bible class this morning...

[SheWolf]

Catz

That quote of Ned's you have in your signature is really funny. Do you have the thread where that came from? It am curious to read more about that conversation.

 

[spud_meister]

Catz

That quote of Ned's you have in your signature is really funny. Do you have the thread where that came from? It am curious to read more about that conversation.

Click on the little blue square next to the quote.

 

[Goshin]

Did I miss it, or has anyone in this thread called for the revocation of this church's 501c3 tax-exempt status, because a staff member of the church was talking about politics?


:mrgreen:

 

[Slartibartfast]

The man teaching Bible class was teaching from James. He somehow got onto a tangent about the wars in the Middle East. He said that he doesn't think God would want us there because in scripture is says that vengeance is God's. He asked something like, "What do you think this country would be like if we'd just let God take care of it and not gone over there?"

He changed the subject soon after (back to the actual topic).

Do you think God wants us to sit back and let Him handle things like 9/11?

I think if we had, we would've been perceived as weak and they would've struck us again. I wonder how many dead Americans it would take for that teacher to agree that we need to get up and fight back?

Your sunday school is better than mine. It is starting to turn into the mexicans don't speak english and took our jerbs hour. My wife and I are seriously thinking about going to a different room.

 

[cpwill]

Didn't Christ say something about turning the other cheek? I think there is a lot in the Bible that would support non-violence and a lot that would support revenge. I guess it's a matter of faith and individual interpretation. I don't think showing strength or not is the problem. We were attacked on Sept 11th because of Palestine and Israel.

okay, before i get into this, i have to know. are you serious about this claim?

 

[MKULTRABOY]

okay, before i get into this, i have to know. are you serious about this claim?

I dont see how they cant accept our extended military presence and the existence of a colony of europeans in the middle east.

 

[cpwill]

without getting into that particular can of worms; we will do this by the numbers.


are you aware that Al-Qaeda grew out of the organization that Bin Laden was part of during the Afghan war against the Soviets?

 

[Ikari]

"Safer" doesn't mean we won't ever be attacked again. Our defenses could be down for any number of reasons.

Now....a question for you...

Do you believe we should've gone to war after 9/11? Do you believe the war in Afghanistan has made us safer? (try to leave Iraq out of it for a second.)

We could justly engage in war after 9/11 (though it should take a declaration of War by Congress). It would not make us safer, but we have the right to defend our sovereignty if attacked. Afghanistan was justifiable; Iraq was not.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

okay, before i get into this, i have to know. are you serious about this claim?

Are you going to show us how you weasel out of it? I.e., Christ didn't REALLY MEAN THAT. :roll:

 

[Ockham]

To me, Christianity as applied to the Gospels would not support man's wars. That said, there were wars during the Old and New Testament, some that God ordered to occur. ie wars today, that we know of, are wars of man and Christ's teachings would not condone them. IMHO, Christ created non-violence movements - such that the death, the torture of Christians became so common that those not of the faith could no longer stand to see this occur. We've moved away from those teachings and these wars in the ME are mans wars - not in the name of God or Christ or even Christianity, therefore we'll be judged on the things we did or will do and if we have faith that misdeeds can be forgiven.

 

[First Thought]

I think God wants us to defend ourselves. Vengeance and justice belong to God, but Scripturally God worked through leaders to enact that vengeance and justice. The Book of Judges is a prime example. Israel's enemies (the Philistines) would attack and raid ancient Israel. The Jews would cry out to God for deliverance, and God would save them by appointing a Judge who was a military leader and through God's power defeated the Philistines. Also, vengeance and justice is also God's in the sense that people can live and die extremely wicked, they will be judged for their life's actions. We are not to seek revenge, but to know that in the end God will judge.

God will judge? Judgement would require separation between us and God. God is omnipotent, omnibenevolent and omnipresent. If God is everywhere all of the time, God must be everything all of the time. What need does God have to judge himself?

 

[American]

Haven't we been trying for decades to help them resolve their issue? I believe the radical Muslims of the world will not stop terrorizing the U.S. until their flag flies over the White House.

What makes you think that will stop them?

 

[Manc Skipper]

without getting into that particular can of worms; we will do this by the numbers.


are you aware that Al-Qaeda grew out of the organization that Bin Laden was part of during the Afghan war against the Soviets?

Would that be the foreign Muslim group sponsored by the American Christanists to fight the Godless commies occupying Afghanistan?

 

[cpwill]

Are you going to show us how you weasel out of it?

i'm going to show you how it has no basis in historical reality. IE: Al-Qaeda didn't care less about the 'palestinian cause' until recently, and the forces in the arab/muslim world which have been most supportive of that cause have traditionally also been those most opposed to Al-Qaeda and visa versa. heck, when the Soviets invaded Afghanistan the PLO representative to the Arab Summit stood up and applauded the move. arguing that "al-qaeda attacked us on 9/11 because of the israel-palestine conflict" is a dangerously ignorant attempt to push all issues and interests in that region into a single lense. Wahhabists are not PLO, who are not Muslim Brotherhood, who are not Hezbollah, who are sort of but also aren't Hamas.

it's sort of like claiming that we went to war with Japan in WWII because Chinese forces had attacked us in the Boxer Rebellion. i mean, they're all asian, right?

 

[cpwill]

Would that be the foreign Muslim group sponsored by the American Christanists to fight the Godless commies occupying Afghanistan?

Osama Bin Laden has never recieved aid or training from the United States Government. however, the "afghan arabs" who fought in the anti-Soviet campaign did form the nucleus of an international islamist movement that began to grow in the 80's and developed into truly international forces in the 90's.

 

[liblady]

Osama Bin Laden has never recieved aid or training from the United States Government. however, the "afghan arabs" who fought in the anti-Soviet campaign did form the nucleus of an international islamist movement that began to grow in the 80's and developed into truly international forces in the 90's.

many, many people believe bin laden was funded by the u.s. the fact that we officailly say it's not so doesn't make that the truth.

 

[cpwill]

many people also believe that the US Government is complicit in 9/11. that many people believe something in contradiction of the available evidence because it allows them to justify a negative view of US foriegn policy (or excuse a lack of response to the 9/11 attacks) does not lend it credence.

 

[Goshin]

Moderator's Warning:

Straying pretty far from the immediate topic, the focus has turned to Middle East issues, so this thread is being moved to the M.E. Forum. Reminder: the ME forum is under martial law.

 

[Aunt Spiker]

The man teaching Bible class was teaching from James. He somehow got onto a tangent about the wars in the Middle East. He said that he doesn't think God would want us there because in scripture is says that vengeance is God's. He asked something like, "What do you think this country would be like if we'd just let God take care of it and not gone over there?"

He changed the subject soon after (back to the actual topic).

Do you think God wants us to sit back and let Him handle things like 9/11?

I think if we had, we would've been perceived as weak and they would've struck us again. I wonder how many dead Americans it would take for that teacher to agree that we need to get up and fight back?

When I believed in God and went to church, taught class and all that kind of thing I believed that God would want us to intervene and help our fellow man rather than sit back and permit man to be vile and vengeful towards fellow man.

This basic core for militant actions is prevalent in the Bible and God stands behind such actions.

While it might be nice to imagine God handing out 'payback' post mortem - everyone does need to realize that we are *living, now* and *how* we live and *what we permit to happen* matters a lot.