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Colonisation of West Bank to start again

bub

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Apocalypse

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The word colonizations doesn't fit, but I have absolutely no time to argue with you about your semantics.
Let's debate the topic instead:

The 10-month freezing on the natural growth (The building of houses within the settlements' boundaries) was approved nearly 10 months ago by PM Benjamin Netanyahu as a show of good will towards the Palestinians, with the hope to be the initiative for the direct peace talks.
The Palestinians have however refused to engage in direct peace talks because they've wanted Israel to stop the building in East Jerusalem as well.
So basically the good-will move was worthless, that far was understood only a few weeks after the plan came into practice.
So now the 10-months freeze is about to be over, and Israel naturally will return to the same situation it was at before Netanyahu came to power and froze the settlements.

Now the agreement was meant and declared to be a temporary freezing of natural growth, not a permanent one.
It was known to all that the settlements' natural growth will be once again active after a duration of 10 months.
Since the Palestinians have refused throughout all that time to enter peace talks, boycotting the peace talks until the one-sided conditions they've raised will be fulfilled by Israel, we now return to point zero.

Now to reply to the OP:
The freezing that now is about to expire was on the natural growth of the settlements.
That means; the settlement's growth within their own boundaries was frozen, and the building of houses within those settlements' boundaries was forbidden.
The settlements themselves were not expanded for quite some years now, and I don't think that they'll ever expand again.
The statement by the OP that Israel decided to expand the settlements over more and more land of the West Bank is absolutely a direct lie, bub lies in our faces and doesn't even blink about it.
Further West Bank land will not and wasn't being taken for the settlements and the natural growth that was frozen refers to the building on the already settler-occupied land.

An advice to bub would be to avoid such obvious lies in the future.
 
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kaya'08

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The word colonizations doesn't fit, but I have absolutely no time to argue with you about your semantics.
Let's debate the topic instead:

The 10-month freezing on the natural growth (The building of houses within the settlements' boundaries) was approved nearly 10 months ago by PM Benjamin Netanyahu as a show of good will towards the Palestinians, with the hope to be the initiative for the direct peace talks.
The Palestinians have however refused to engage in direct peace talks because they've wanted Israel to stop the building in East Jerusalem as well.
So basically the good-will move was worthless, that far was understood only a few weeks after the plan came into practice.
So now the 10-months freeze is about to be over, and Israel naturally will return to the same situation it was at before Netanyahu came to power and froze the settlements.

Now the agreement was meant and declared to be a temporary freezing of natural growth, not a permanent one.
It was known to all that the settlements' natural growth will be once again active after a duration of 10 months.
Since the Palestinians have refused throughout all that time to enter peace talks, boycotting the peace talks until the one-sided conditions they've raised will be fulfilled by Israel, we now return to point zero.

Now to reply to the OP:
The freezing that now is about to expire was on the natural growth of the settlements.
That means; the settlement's growth within their own boundaries was frozen, and the building of houses within those settlements' boundaries was forbidden.
The settlements themselves were not expanded for quite some years now, and I don't think that they'll ever expand again.
The statement by the OP that Israel decided to expand the settlements over more and more land of the West Bank is absolutely a direct lie, bub lies in our faces and doesn't even blink about it.
Further West Bank land will not and wasn't being taken for the settlements and the natural growth that was frozen refers to the building on the already settler-occupied land.

An advice to bub would be to avoid such obvious lies in the future.

So your saying no building of settlements will take place in the West bank?
 

Gardener

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What I find ironic is all the hypocritical rage expressed by those who advocate these Juden-free territories on one hand while advocating the "right of return" on another.

AS with everything else involved with this Pally cult, the double standards are glaring.
 

Apocalypse

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So your saying no building of settlements will take place in the West bank?

Exactly.
New settlements were not built in the West Bank since the 90's IIIRC.
Natural growth, as its name, refers to the building of houses within the existing settlements' land and boundaries.
I don't see how bub could mistake it when it was already explained to him in the past.
 
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Goshin

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Far as I'm concerned, the West Bank is Israel's to do with as they please.
 

kaya'08

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Exactly.
New settlements were not built in the West Bank since the 90's IIIRC.
Natural growth, as its name, refers to the building of houses within the existing settlements' land and boundaries.
I don't see how bub could mistake it when it was already explained to him in the past.

Ah, ok.
But isn't that the problem? Isn't the jewish settlements within the west bank the source of conflict?

Far as I'm concerned, the West Bank is Israel's to do with as they please.

Fortunately that's not your decision to make.
 

Apocalypse

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Ah, ok.
But isn't that the problem? Isn't the jewish settlements within the west bank the source of conflict?
It's far from being the source of the conflict, but it's one of the main issues.
I think the Palestinians are more opposed to Israeli control in East Jerusalem than they are to the natural growth of the West Bank settlements, considering that the freezing of that natural growth as an act of good-will didn't even get them to agree to talk with Israel about peace.
 

kaya'08

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It's far from being the source of the conflict, but it's one of the main issues.

I meant in this particular conflict, in regards to West bank.

I think the Palestinians are more opposed to Israeli control in East Jerusalem than they are to the natural growth of the West Bank settlements, considering that the freezing of that natural growth as an act of good-will didn't even get them to agree to talk with Israel about peace.

Well there wont ever be peace achieved through diplomacy, so Israel might as well just make concessions on the blockade and Golan to achieve some sort of long term stability with its neighbours. I dont believe Israel should be forced to return East Jerusalem. That just isn't right. The west bank on the other hand....
 
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justabubba

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It's far from being the source of the conflict, but it's one of the main issues.
I think the Palestinians are more opposed to Israeli control in East Jerusalem than they are to the natural growth of the West Bank settlements, considering that the freezing of that natural growth as an act of good-will didn't even get them to agree to talk with Israel about peace.
expansion of the western bank settlements is one of the main issues of the ongoing conflict in your estimation

but then you minimize how the israelis are exacerbating that aspect of the conflict by deeming the Palestinian concern about control over east jerusalem as being even more pronounced. in doing this, you are diverting away from the topic of west bank expanison ... what were once vices are now habits, and this deflection of threads critical of israeli behavior has become a habit you should be made to break
 

Demon of Light

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The word colonizations doesn't fit, but I have absolutely no time to argue with you about your semantics.

Doesn't fit because the Jews are the only people who can't colonize right? Seriously, the policy in the West Bank is classic colonization by any definition.
 

Apocalypse

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Doesn't fit because the Jews are the only people who can't colonize right? Seriously, the policy in the West Bank is classic colonization by any definition.

Coming from the same person who says that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, I'm not surprised.

From wikipedia:
Colonialism is a process whereby sovereignty over the colony is claimed by the metropole, who impose a new government and perhaps a new social structure and economy

Israel doesn't claim sovereignty over the West Bank, hence it didn't colonize it.
Besides that, Israel shares a border with the west bank, hence even if it did claim sovereignty over it it wouldn't be a colonization but an annexation.
An example of an Israeli colonization would be if Israel was to invade New-Zealand, conquer it and claim sovereignty over it.

Beyond that you can argue as much as you'd like, I've had my say and I've already said there that I'm not willing to even argue about that misuse of the term.
 

mbig

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Despite the ominous/spun OP I see this as pretty much of a Non-issue.

As long as the settlement expansion is behind the Fence line, it will all be adjudicated as part of any Peace negotiation/final deal.
Either dismantled/withdrawn from with the others, become part of palestine with the others, or be incorporated into Israel with everything Else behind the fence and traded for other land.

See my 'Solutions poll'. http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/72245-israel-palestine-solutions-poll.html
 
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kaya'08

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Coming from the same person who says that Hezbollah is not a terrorist organization, I'm not surprised.

Are you aware only the US and Israel consider Hezbollah a terrorist group?
 

Orion

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Israel's colonization efforts have the golden stamp of the western world, so of course they are going to do what they want.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Doesn't mean they are.

See how that works?

That's fine. So, living in the US, I consider Hezbollah a terrorist group, and will treat them as such, and address them as such. You can do as you choose based on your country's position on Hezbollah.
 

kaya'08

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That's fine. So, living in the US, I consider Hezbollah a terrorist group, and will treat them as such, and address them as such. You can do as you choose based on your country's position on Hezbollah.

So why is Demon Light having the fact that he does not believe Hezbollah to be a terrorist group held up against him? It doesnt discredit him at all.
Living in the UK, i insist Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist group, only its paramilitary wing. I dont see why it should be branded as such just because of what two countries say; the one being attacked by Hezbollah, and the blinded ally of the one being attacked by Hezbollah.
 

digsbe

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Honestly, I have no problem with Israel building settlements and expanding them in the West Bank. One of the worst decisions Israel has made was to pull out of the Gaza Strip and allow them to rule themselves. Israel should get East Jerusalem and have rights to make and expand settlements in the West Bank. As long as the Palestinians and their government want to destroy Israel, the wisest decision would be to shrink their sphere of influence and build settlements.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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So why is Demon Light having the fact that he does not believe Hezbollah to be a terrorist group held up against him? It doesnt discredit him at all.

For those who see Hezbollah as one, it does.

Living in the UK, i insist Hezbollah is NOT a terrorist group, only its paramilitary wing. I dont see why it should be branded as such just because of what two countries say; the one being attacked by Hezbollah, and the blinded ally of the one being attacked by Hezbollah.

Hezbollah leaders still call for the destruction of Israel and still list Israel and the US as enemies. If you are a member of that organization, you take their postions with you... paramilitary or not.
 

Orion

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That's fine. So, living in the US, I consider Hezbollah a terrorist group, and will treat them as such, and address them as such. You can do as you choose based on your country's position on Hezbollah.

My opinion is not formed by national loyalty. The Canadian government supports Israel. Canadian factories do some of the manufacturing for vehicles and weapons that end up in Israeli hands. I am not blind to this.

That does not mean I fall in line with my government's stance. I am against support of Israeli imperialism and terrorism, just as I am against Hamas terrorism.
 

winston53660

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Honestly, I have no problem with Israel building settlements and expanding them in the West Bank. One of the worst decisions Israel has made was to pull out of the Gaza Strip and allow them to rule themselves. Israel should get East Jerusalem and have rights to make and expand settlements in the West Bank. As long as the Palestinians and their government want to destroy Israel, the wisest decision would be to shrink their sphere of influence and build settlements.

Did you ever think people, living breathing people getting kicked out of their homes might be a part of the problem?
 

CaptainCourtesy

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My opinion is not formed by national loyalty. The Canadian government supports Israel. Canadian factories do some of the manufacturing for vehicles and weapons that end up in Israeli hands. I am not blind to this.

That does not mean I fall in line with my government's stance. I am against support of Israeli imperialism and terrorism, just as I am against Hamas terrorism.

That too is fine. I see Hezbollah as a terrorist group, both on their behavior and on their positions. You do not. That's your position and you are entitled to it.
 

Orion

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That too is fine. I see Hezbollah as a terrorist group, both on their behavior and on their positions. You do not. That's your position and you are entitled to it.

Please quote where I said I don't think Hezbollah is terrorist group.
 
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