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Colombia protests: What is behind unrest?

Who cares what is happening in Columbia, we have ex-Presidents in this nation trying to use conspiracy theory to motivate his ignorant followers to overthrow Congress and prevent a vote certification.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
It began with genuinely progressive ideas. But it got corrupted and perverted.

At that time and because of oil-wealth money flowed down sufficiently to keep people relatively appeased. It was in the 1980s when the Venezuelan currency was devalued that the 'reality' of decades of bad decisions became apparent.

There is no *real* democracy today, anywhere. Except perhaps in the cantons of Switzerland . . .

We all live in various facsimiles of 'democracy'.
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Speak for yourself. The U.S is a democracy and will always remain so. We vote out our corrupt leaders it's better than the alternative.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Who cares what is happening in Columbia, we have ex-Presidents in this nation trying to use conspiracy theory to motivate his ignorant followers to overthrow Congress and prevent a vote certification.
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And they failed miserably. We must be vigilant to keep our freedom. That is what Jan. 6th taught us. The insurrectionists are a minority and can never win as long as we can still vote.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
This is a mistaken idea. Certainly it is necessary that the genuinely poor classes, the lower-middle class and the middle-class (such as one exists) need to grow.
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Alicia Tyler:

Could you clarify this remark. If the genuinely poor and lower-middle classes grow, then Colombians will face more income inequality and more wealth polarisation. Did you mean people must be allowed to grow OUT of these classes and into higher levels of economic status? Or is it perhaps a political Freudian slip and a unintentional nod to plutocracy and oligarchy? ;)

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
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iguanaman said:
Putin is watching this unfold and is ready to come in a "save" you like he did in Venezuela. For him "saving" means he takes all your wealth for himself. Don't make a deal with the devil or you will regret it.
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A representative of a country, that has invented the Monroe Doctrine to single-handedly plunder Latin America, says this?!
Do you live there on another planet, that you are so disconnected from reality?
 
iguanaman said:
And it is up to the Govt. to prevent that isn't it? That means sitting down and really listening.
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I regard the problems in Colombia, and in Latin America, and of course everywhere essentially, as being 'complexes'. So I would say, because I perceive this and have perceived this over time and have devoted time to thinking about it, that the problems that exist in Colombia as complexes of problems. This is the perspective I use when I comment here on this topic. If you take this into consideration when reading or rereading what I have written it could be useful in helping you to understand my perspective.

It is not the responsibility of the government to keep people from making bad choices but rather the general education system or process of education. So, to put this in polarized form, if educators educate toward rebellion, disobedience, resistance and violence when they should be educating and training citizens to act in socially responsible ways to construct the society they want over the course of generations, the fault is in educators and what is taught.

I have referenced the Manual for the Complete Latin American Idiot not because I chose the rather harsh title, but because some authors who made a decisive effort to create a rational narrative against the mind-set of people like Eduardo Galeano (Open Veins of Latin America) who support a way of looking at things similar, largely, to the perspective you and also EvilRoddy operate from. I am generally, not totally but generally, opposed to this operational perspective and that is of course the perspective I write from.
 
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iguanaman said:
Speak for yourself. The U.S is a democracy and will always remain so. We vote out our corrupt leaders it's better than the alternative.
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If you mean that President Trump was voted out of office by 'democracy' I think you are wrong, and if you examine the process by which he was removed from office you might grasp that it was brought about by non-democratic and para-democratic means. The collusion of news distribution organizations, media-systems, and also the machinations of the so-called tech giants.

My point is quite simple and is not meant to sully the notion of democratic government. True democratic government does not exist . . . except perhaps in the cantons of Switzerland.

Edward Bernays -- the 'father of modern public relations' -- had troubling observations on the topic:

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Alizia Tyler said:
If you mean that President Trump was voted out of office by 'democracy' I think you are wrong, and if you examine the process by which he was removed from office you might grasp that it was brought about by non-democratic and para-democratic means. The collusion of news distribution organizations, media-systems, and also the machinations of the so-called tech giants.

My point is quite simple and is not meant to sully the notion of democratic government. True democratic government does not exist . . . except perhaps in the cantons of Switzerland.

Edward Bernays -- the 'father of modern public relations' -- had troubling observations on the topic:
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Alizia Tyler:

If you have read some of Edward Bernays then it is time to read some of Dr. Joost Meerloo's writing too. He describes in chilling detail how authoritarian regimes breakdown the minds of their subjects and render them incapable of critical thought or resistance to authority. The best defence against the manipulation of Bernays' democracy hijacking propaganda and Meerloo's soul killing conditioning for the subjugation of the people by totalitarian regimes is an education system which teaches critical thinking, a willingness to question and confront authority, first peacefully but if necessary in the streets and countryside forcefully and the ability to make decisions and carry them through when a state becomes predatory to the interests of the proponderance of its citizens. It is not without import that a large number of those being assassinated in Colombia since the Dec. 2016 peace deal are human rights activists and investigative journalists. This is about maintaining or expanding power, not about prosperity and the greater well being of most Colombians.


Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
Alizia Tyler said:
If you mean that President Trump was voted out of office by 'democracy' I think you are wrong, and if you examine the process by which he was removed from office you might grasp that it was brought about by non-democratic and para-democratic means. The collusion of news distribution organizations, media-systems, and also the machinations of the so-called tech giants.

My point is quite simple and is not meant to sully the notion of democratic government. True democratic government does not exist . . . except perhaps in the cantons of Switzerland.

Edward Bernays -- the 'father of modern public relations' -- had troubling observations on the topic:
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LOL The big lie has spread to S. America? The one term mistake was the most unpopular President in our history so we voted him out. That is how it works in a democracy. He never was even close to receiving a majority of votes in either of his elections. He lost in 2020 by over 7 million votes. According to those in charge of such matters the 2020 election was the safest and most secure in our history. The USA is the founder of democracy and Colombia would do well to emulate our success. Good luck. If your govt. officials are anything like you you will need it. The clock is ticking on their regime and the world is watching. Don't do something stupid and make us withdraw our support.

The 2020 US election was the most secure in American history, according to US elections officials.
“The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double-checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result,” the coordinating bodies on election infrastructure and security said in a joint statement issued by the Department of Homeland Security’s Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA).

https://www.vox.com/2020/11/13/21563825/2020-elections-most-secure-dhs-cisa-krebs
 
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Ringo Stalin said:
A representative of a country, that has invented the Monroe Doctrine to single-handedly plunder Latin America, says this?!
Do you live there on another planet, that you are so disconnected from reality?
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We will let Putin stay in S. America to "plunder" Venezuela, Certainly not. Have we been guilty of past blunders where we have let capitalism make bad decisions for us? Unfortunately yes. Do we strive to be better? Most definitely. That is how we make ourselves more perfect.
 
iguanaman said:
We will let Putin stay in S. America to "plunder" Venezuela, Certainly not. Have we been guilty of past blunders where we have let capitalism make bad decisions for us? Unfortunately yes. Do we strive to be better? Most definitely. That is how we make ourselves more perfect.
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Oh, give us a brake! The only "perfect" thing that coming from you lately is that men, who call themselves women, can participate in the Olympic games as women and other perversions. Decaying Capitalism exudes a stench.
 
Evilroddy said:
If you have read some of Edward Bernays then it is time to read some of Dr. Joost Meerloo's writing too.
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Nice try EvilRoddy. . . .

I do not think you are in a position to give lectures, or imply that you can give them, though I do appreciate the reference.

From the Wiki page on Meerloo:
Like their totalitarian counterparts, democratic societies are subject to the insidious influences of mind control. Such influences surround the citizens of free societies, "both on a political and a nonpolitical level and they become as dangerous to the free way of life as are the aggressive totalitarian governments themselves." People must guard against the creeping intrusion into their minds by technology, bureaucracy, prejudice, and mass delusion.

Freedom and democracy depend in part on education for mental freedom—helping children and adults to think for themselves and to see the essentials of a problem—helping them to understand concepts, not merely to memorize facts.
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Generally, but also specifically, the intellectual work that I do on this forum in relation to a large group of people who exhibit many traits similar to those who have been *brainwashed*, shows how intellect can and should be used to confront the products of the 'group mind' and the 'coercion' I am committed to resist.

You have shown very little of the traits and characteristics of free-through and you appear here with various people who obviously cannot think clearly, carefully and rationally -- free of 'emotional intrusion'.

If I suggest that it is important to get out from under 'idealogical coercion' this indicates that I am very definitely interested in free thought, and thought free of intellectual coercion.
 
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Evilroddy said:
It is not without import that a large number of those being assassinated in Colombia since the Dec. 2016 peace deal are human rights activists and investigative journalists. This is about maintaining or expanding power, not about prosperity and the greater well being of most Colombians.
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You are on the outside looking in. You do not have an adequate position nor background to pass judgments on complex situations that are often mediated by people with those 'agenda' often referred to. I started by framing the Colombian situation as one of war -- I mean that for 50 years Colombia had been in a low-intensity civil conflict. And on one pole, the pole that is now losing, were people committed to ideas and programs closely associated with Communist ideology and Marxist ideology. The battles have been sustained and ugly.

You are offering perspectives that come from a 'talking-points list'. The reality of the situation and what the situation has required, when one considers what the pole I refer to will do, and have done, when they get power, is not part of your consideration -- because you are on the outside looking in and because of an unwillingness to see the larger situation in fuller terms.

It is not that the elements you bring up are not worthy of review and consideration, but as I say the entire situation needs to be seen before it can be properly adjudicated. And what I have written speaks to that in ways that you cannot, because you have no relationship at all in any substantial sense to the place, the situation, and the reality.
 
A fascinating discussion of what is going on in the streets and in the halls of power in Colombia.



Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.
 
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