CNN drops Marc Lamont Hill after anti-Israel remarks

[oneworld2]

Citation?

As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

Morris is cited as the first footnote directly after the sentence ( 49 )

Shall I put you down as someone who believes there were as little as 300,000 Palestinian refugees after the 47-49 war ?

Or do you concur with what is the accepted figure of around 700 , 000 ?

 

[oneworld2]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

Cited in precisely the dishonest misrepresentation/disregard of context one accuses others of.

Miserable conduct.

Wrong and dishonest are the words that accurately describe you own input here thus far , ongoing

You quoted Morris stating that some Arabs had been told to leave by their own as if to bolster the claim that throughout the conflict this had accounted for many Palestinians ( Apocalypses claim that you decided to jump in on ) when as I have stated twice now it is thought to have accounted for around only 5 % of the total.

I directed you to the table referenced for the second phase to highlight the figures on how many instances of Arab on Arab expulsion had taken place and never claimed anything else other than the figures would show someone ( maybe with the ability to be more objective than you ) that the reference made wrt the first phase was just that and in no way represented his final view of the events. Your attempt to twist your way out of a very obvious misrepresentation of his view and try to hang that dishonesty onto someone else is typical of your wish to debate using underhanded tactics

Let's recall too that wrt the refugees ......

In your first comment on the subject you never mentioned that any had ended up outside of the territory Israel had taken by any other means other than they had "fled"

Your very first reference to the subject of the refugees cited a figure that virtually none but the completely ignorant would believe/accept

You refused on two occasions to cite the source itself even though you claimed to have knowledge of it

You misrepresented Morris precisely to try give some credence to a view that he didn't express ( other then for the very first phase ) which was that many of them had left on the orders of other Arabs telling them to do so . I have given and supported the figure of around 5 % that is consistent with his view regarding the entire time frame

So , please don't try to project your own " miserable " tactics ( as shown in the above ) onto me in the hope they might stick. They are representative of you and not me

And if you are going to comment on my post material at least have the decency to quote me directly instead of using the cowardly tactic of attacking it by proxy

 

[Chagos]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

 

[CJ 2.0]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

Morris is cited as the first footnote directly after the sentence ( 49 )

Shall I put you down as someone who believes there were as little as 300,000 Palestinian refugees after the 47-49 war ?

Or do you concur with what is the accepted figure of around 700 , 000 ?

I’m closer to the 700 but haven’t looked into it myself. I know the number was artificially inflated a long time ago but understood the 700 is the number that folks think nets those out. I don’t know whether there is room to squabble though (eg does the 700 include lebanese who worked in the Galilee for example?)


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[Chagos]

I’m closer to the 700 but haven’t looked into it myself. I know the number was artificially inflated a long time ago but understood the 700 is the number that folks think nets those out. I don’t know whether there is room to squabble though (eg does the 700 include lebanese who worked in the Galilee for example?)


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The cited footnote appears to refer to a report from the military intelligence SHAI of the Haganah, dated June-30, 1948. Which also states that 22% of the departures are attributed to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population.

whole paragraph reading:

At least 55% of the total of the exodus was caused by our (Haganah/IDF) operations. To this figure, the report's compilers add the operations of the Irgun and Lehi, which "directly (caused) some 15%... of the emigration." A further 2% was attributed to explicit expulsion orders issued by Israeli troops, and 1% to their psychological warfare. This leads to a figure of 73% for departures caused directly by the Israelis. In addition, the report attributes 22% of the departures to "fears" and "a crisis of confidence" affecting the Palestinian population. As for Arab calls for flight, these were reckoned to be significant in only 5% of cases.

It's unclear whether the "Arab calls" referred to propaganda campaigns from the outside, from within or both.

Morris arrives at a total number of refugees (by November 1948) slightly upwards of 700,000 (see box in post #163).

 

[oneworld2]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

And I have already cited where Morris has stated that , over the entirety of the conflict , he maintains that only around 5 % of those that fled or were expelled did so on the orders of Arabs so your post is irrelevant anyhow

Elvis left the building , the horse bolted , it's gone and your attempt to misrepresent him is all's that's left worthy of any attention. Along with all the other inaccuracies

 

[Chagos]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

 

[oneworld2]

I’m closer to the 700 but haven’t looked into it myself. I know the number was artificially inflated a long time ago but understood the 700 is the number that folks think nets those out. I don’t know whether there is room to squabble though (eg does the 700 include lebanese who worked in the Galilee for example?)


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700,000 it is then. As I said at least you offered something to try to endorse the 300.000 even if it was during and not after the conflict and may have still suffered from a lag factor anyhow

I know you believe in the mass Arab immigration theory as expounded by Joan Peters ( From Time Immemorial ) but you really should read Finkelsteins dismemberment of it in " Image and Reality " before you decide to hang your hat on it imo

 

[oneworld2]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

What you tried to foist onto Morris failed

The horse bolted , you should move on

 

[Chagos]

Morris' reference to the first wave (see table in post #163 and cited comment in post # 166) has no box accompanying it on the right of the text. That box is embedded against the text dealing with the second wave.

 

[Chagos]

To address further inaccuracies in my attempts to misrepresent Morris:roll:, Le Monde did a precis in 1997 of his “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem”

Excerpts:

using a map that shows the 369 Arab towns and villages in Israel (within its 1949 borders), he lists, area by area, the reasons for the departure of the local population. In 45 cases he admits that he does not know. The inhabitants of the other 228 localities left under attack by Jewish troops, and in 41 cases they were expelled by military force. In 90 other localities, the Palestinians were in a state of panic following the fall of a neighbouring town or village, or for fear of an enemy attack, or because of rumours circulated by the Jewish army - particularly after the 9 April 1948 massacre of 250 inhabitants of Deir Yassin, where the news of the killings swept the country like wildfire.

regarding the (long since debunked) myth of calls from neighboring Arab countries to flee

By contrast, he found only six cases of departures at the instigation of local Arab authorities. “There is no evidence to show that the Arab states and the AHC wanted a mass exodus or issued blanket orders or appeals to the Palestinians to flee their homes (though in certain areas the inhabitants of specific villages were ordered by Arab commanders or the AHC to leave, mainly for strategic reasons).”

IOW there are myths and there are myths.

That ALL Palestinians were expelled (as some still try to peddle, here and elsewhere) thus being as much a myth as the one of neighboring Arab radio stations and other means of propaganda having enticed the Palestinians to leave, in order to return in a brighter future of a defeated Israel.

The radio thing was incidentally debunked on here (and elsewhere) long ago.

That Morris admits not knowing the actual cause of exodus in 45 of the 369 locations he investigated, really plays little role in any of it.

 

[CJ 2.0]

700,000 it is then. As I said at least you offered something to try to endorse the 300.000 even if it was during and not after the conflict and may have still suffered from a lag factor anyhow

I know you believe in the mass Arab immigration theory as expounded by Joan Peters ( From Time Immemorial ) but you really should read Finkelsteins dismemberment of it in " Image and Reality " before you decide to hang your hat on it imo

I wasn’t offering it to say the number was 300 and I’m pretty sure I flagged it at the time. But it is a number that relates to the conflict from a contemporaneous source so lends at least some indication that someone might have understood the number to be closer to 300.

And please spare me the norman finkelstein propaganda. It’s sheer and utter nonsense by a Jew who is truly, genuinely hostile to other Jews.


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