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CNN: Being anti-CRT means you're pro-Nazi

How exactly do you search a college or school for whiteness?
And assuming you have not attended college, you apparently don't know all classes are elective?
So your claim is that white kids are choosing to take classes in which professors are indoctrinating them into hating the white race? Makes perfect sense to..... absolutely no one.

But no, I'm not searching anywhere for anything. When you advance a conspiracy theory like this, it is incumbent upon you to prove it's actually occurring as you claim, not my burden to prove it is not.

CRT (or more specifically, the scapegoating of whites) is usually found in school systems and State Depts of Education frameworks, multiple examples here.

It's fine to think that scapegoating whites belongs in school systems, but I can't accept that school systems aren't scapegoating whites.
 
Quite a statement coming from someone from a country where the power structure is -- and always has been -- entirely white.

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Wrong, we have had immigrant ministers and secretary's. One of the biggest and most important departments of government (justice and security) is run by a politicians of Turkish descent. One is from Suriname descent. One is gay. And another one is also a politician of Turkish descent.

Our most favorite politician (even more popular than the prime minister) is this guy

foto-2.jpg


He is Moroccan.

And as soon as you have a minister like Jette Klijnsma who had a successful career in government (including in the cabinet) and then was inaugurated as head of the province of Drenthe by the king

5c8fbce00c74f2376381739.jpg

And yes, she is handicapped and regularly needs her wheelchair.

I wish there were more immigrant or black politicians in the Netherlands but as the vast majority of people living in the Netherlands are not black or immigrant from outside of the EU, you will get a large white population. But for example our prime minister and several political leaders all have Indonesian blood as they are descendants from Indonesian grand parents/parents.
 
Except being Dutch is not a color, a lot of black Dutch people can speak Dutch excellently, this has to do with language skills.

That is why the Dutch government puts a lot of effort into increasing the language skills of immigrants. This means usually that either parents learn Dutch and then the language skills vastly improve or it is the children of immigrants as in second generation and usually these kids speak Dutch as well as "white/black" Dutch children.

You're speaking of immigrants assimilating into Dutch culture by speaking the Dutch language and increasing their skills, presumably to fit into the majority Dutch workforce and to fit in better with "Dutchness".

This describes the American view of immigrants in the past, where Irish and Italians where expected to learn English and conform to American culture (working hard, showing up to work on time, etc). In the new Woke era, assimilation is considered a cruelty towards immigrants, especially those "of color". Moreover, assimilation of current Black citizens is considered cruel as well.

This is more easily understood when you research how the media, democrats and school systems define "whiteness".

An American leftist would ask why the Netherlands is being so cruel to immigrants by teaching them Dutch and expecting them to assimilate: Why is the Netherlands forcing their majority culture on immigrants of color? Sounds very imperialist and elitest.
 
Wrong, we have had immigrant ministers and secretary's. One of the biggest and most important departments of government (justice and security) is run by a politicians of Turkish descent. One is from Suriname descent. One is gay. And another one is also a politician of Turkish descent.

Our most favorite politician (even more popular than the prime minister) is this guy

foto-2.jpg


He is Moroccan.

And as soon as you have a minister like Jette Klijnsma who had a successful career in government (including in the cabinet) and then was inaugurated as head of the province of Drenthe by the king

5c8fbce00c74f2376381739.jpg

And yes, she is handicapped and regularly needs her wheelchair.

I wish there were more immigrant or black politicians in the Netherlands but as the vast majority of people living in the Netherlands are not black or immigrant from outside of the EU, you will get a large white population. But for example our prime minister and several political leaders all have Indonesian blood as they are descendants from Indonesian grand parents/parents.
What's the Dutch word for "token?"
 
Ah, you see that's where you're behind. Here in America we understand that student outcomes are meant to be a secondary goal. The primary objective of our public education system is job stability for public sector union teachers.
Who cares about unions? It is the education of our children that is important. It is not for nothing that Unicef says that the Netherlands is the best place in the world for children to grow up.

At 13 our kids get sexual education at school. Including the concept of wet dreams, it was a bit of a funny thing to be told in class but you know how many of the children I went to school with until 20 got pregnant in my class? Zero. Compared to the US we have 7 times less chance of a 15-19 year old getting pregnant. Dutch are pragmatic, it is a certainty that later teens will have sex, it is a guarantee in any developed country. So the goal is teaching children about the sexual maturity and respect in sexual relationships, the biological process of pregnancies, pregnancy prevention and u se of condoms to prevent sexual diseases.

Until I was about 12 I had little or no homework. We played in the streets or at the homes of friends. We have ZERO sports teams at school. No school programs whatsoever for sports. We played our sports outside of school at local clubs. Schools were for learning and improving, not in trying to beat your school buddies at sports or fighting other sports. There was one exception and while I was always fat and non athletic, I NEVER got a bad grade at sports. Why? Because I did my very best at PE lessons. Those who slacked off and performed better than me because they were slimmer often got worse grades. It didn't matter how well I did as long as I did my best and did the games with gusto and enthusiasm.

We also don't have school meals. Kids eat at home with our parents and siblings.

When I was about 8 or 9 I was allowed to cycle to school without my mother cycling with me. Usually we went with friends. Most Dutch children go to school by foot or cycling.

We also do not have SAT's or stuff like that. That pressure on kids is spared on Dutch children. We also have education specifically for the education abilities of the children and not schools that encourage kids who do very well and kids who really cannot keep up with the school work. And if you get good grades and have a diploma while learning a good profession, you will be happier than going to high school and then work at McDonalds.
 
Who cares about unions? It is the education of our children that is important. It is not for nothing that Unicef says that the Netherlands is the best place in the world for children to grow up.

At 13 our kids get sexual education at school. Including the concept of wet dreams, it was a bit of a funny thing to be told in class but you know how many of the children I went to school with until 20 got pregnant in my class? Zero. Compared to the US we have 7 times less chance of a 15-19 year old getting pregnant. Dutch are pragmatic, it is a certainty that later teens will have sex, it is a guarantee in any developed country. So the goal is teaching children about the sexual maturity and respect in sexual relationships, the biological process of pregnancies, pregnancy prevention and u se of condoms to prevent sexual diseases.

Until I was about 12 I had little or no homework. We played in the streets or at the homes of friends. We have ZERO sports teams at school. No school programs whatsoever for sports. We played our sports outside of school at local clubs. Schools were for learning and improving, not in trying to beat your school buddies at sports or fighting other sports. There was one exception and while I was always fat and non athletic, I NEVER got a bad grade at sports. Why? Because I did my very best at PE lessons. Those who slacked off and performed better than me because they were slimmer often got worse grades. It didn't matter how well I did as long as I did my best and did the games with gusto and enthusiasm.

We also don't have school meals. Kids eat at home with our parents and siblings.

When I was about 8 or 9 I was allowed to cycle to school without my mother cycling with me. Usually we went with friends. Most Dutch children go to school by foot or cycling.

We also do not have SAT's or stuff like that. That pressure on kids is spared on Dutch children. We also have education specifically for the education abilities of the children and not schools that encourage kids who do very well and kids who really cannot keep up with the school work. And if you get good grades and have a diploma while learning a good profession, you will be happier than going to high school and then work at McDonalds.
I care about unions when they stand in the way of more effective public education.
 
Ever consider the possibility that CRT-based public policy is likely to exacerbate racial inequalities, and that fighting CRT may actually be a way to fight those inequalities?
White people who fear the truth of their history.... is what is the biggest problem...
 
Ah, you see that's where you're behind. Here in America we understand that student outcomes are meant to be a secondary goal. The primary objective of our public education system is job stability for public sector union teachers.
That's among the most stupidiest comments in the forum
 
Ever consider the possibility that CRT-based public policy is likely to exacerbate racial inequalities, and that fighting CRT may actually be a way to fight those inequalities?

Hi, NatMorton!

Some of the political palaver about it is certainly not doing us any good.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.
 
I care about unions when they stand in the way of more effective public education.
That is because US unions are usually contra productive, Dutch unions are usually the opposite. They are working with the companies and government. Employers, employees and the government working together gives the best results for all concerned IMO.

I have in the 25 years that I worked never participated in a strike.

In France there are on average 123 strike days per 1,000 employees, we have 8 strike days a year per 1,000 employees. We see a strike was the very very very very last option, not the first options like it looks in France.
 
What's the Dutch word for "token?"
I am not sure we have a word for "token" that means the same as the one in the US. We are not really into token choices in politics. These politicians worked their way up for decades often. They are chosen for their qualities, not because they are gay/handicapped/etc. We do like it if our society is represented in our politicians and cabinet. But not at all costs. We do not choose a leader for them being handicapped/gay/black/immigrant.
 
I am not sure we have a word for "token" that means the same as the one in the US. We are not really into token choices in politics. These politicians worked their way up for decades often. They are chosen for their qualities, not because they are gay/handicapped/etc. We do like it if our society is represented in our politicians and cabinet. But not at all costs. We do not choose a leader for them being handicapped/gay/black/immigrant.
Sorry, I shouldn't assume you know American idiom.

1649017836434.png
 
You're speaking of immigrants assimilating into Dutch culture by speaking the Dutch language and increasing their skills, presumably to fit into the majority Dutch workforce and to fit in better with "Dutchness".

This describes the American view of immigrants in the past, where Irish and Italians where expected to learn English and conform to American culture (working hard, showing up to work on time, etc). In the new Woke era, assimilation is considered a cruelty towards immigrants, especially those "of color". Moreover, assimilation of current Black citizens is considered cruel as well.

This is more easily understood when you research how the media, democrats and school systems define "whiteness".

An American leftist would ask why the Netherlands is being so cruel to immigrants by teaching them Dutch and expecting them to assimilate: Why is the Netherlands forcing their majority culture on immigrants of color? Sounds very imperialist and elitest.
That is a new movement, in the past bad choices were made and sadly those decisions were made by fiscal conservatives and religious conservatives. In a team of great expansion of the Netherlands we needed workers. And in their infinite wisdom the fiscal conservatives of the VVD and the confessional parties (Roman Catholic and protestant conservatives) ARP, CHU, KVP, went to Morocco to get their new workers. They have 2 choices:

1. take workers from the coastal regions of Morocco. They were better trained, most knew French, had better educations and were "more liberal" (but still not actual liberals)
2. take workers from the Riff mountain of Morocco. They were hard workers but most of them just knew Arabic, were less educated, a lot of them were not able to read or write and were more conservative religious people.

Well a smart country would have chosen option 1 but guess what, the Fiscal conservatives and christian parties that formed the government chose option 2. A lot of them were not even able to sign their names on the immigration agreements.

So that was the first mistake. The second mistake deciding to not give these new immigrants Dutch lessons. The government (christians and fiscal conservatives) decided that as soon as the need for these immigrants was over they would go back to their countries so why waste time and money teaching them the Dutch language. The little they needed at work they would learn on the job. But the booming years did not really die down that much. So the need for immigrants stayed. Then came the continuation of those poor choices. They had their wives and children move down to the Netherlands too. Also poorly educated, women were mostly not allowed to leave the home without their husband, very islamic and again, not forced to learn Dutch.

By the time they had been living here for 30 years and having become Dutch citizens they could no longer be forced to learn Dutch. Their children as said suffered from the lack of Dutch speaking role models and it has taken to the second generation for that to be less of an issue. In fact now the issue is that most of these kids barely speak arabic any more. Which is an issue in the mosques because most younger faithful are unable to understand the arabic preacher.

Now immigrants have to learn Dutch, that is all except the Turkish. That is because of a deal with Turkey, they cannot force our citizens to learn Turkish when they move there and vice versa.

Another problem that the (sadly again the fiscal conservatives and christians parties decided was that Morocco was granted access to our citizen database. This has caused an issue with people with 2 passports. Any child born in the Netherlands were one or both parents are of Moroccan descent/in possession of a Moroccan passport, automatically because dual citizens. Not only are they Dutch citizens but without the approval or wishes of the parents, these children also get a Moroccan passport. Which is also stupid as hell.
 
Sorry, I shouldn't assume you know American idiom.

View attachment 67383717
I know the work token and the meaning thereof, what I said is that word token (in the way you mean) does not have a proper similar translation when looking at the Dutch translation list for the word token. I guess the best word would be "symbool politiek". Symbolism so to speak but as most of these people who are for example of Turkish descent, are in our parliament for many years or having worked in that field for many years.

I am a big fan of South Park, Token is the token black kid in school.
 
Well a smart country would have chosen option 1 but guess what, the Fiscal conservatives and christian parties that formed the government chose option 2. A lot of them were not even able to sign their names on the immigration agreements.

I can understand that businesses would want cheap labor, but here in the US, conservatives want no part of illiterate immigrants - they will be poor and vote democrat if given a chance. We're on the verge of giving non-citizens the right to vote in the US. Another drawback to conservatives wanting cheap labor in the US is the welfare state. Your Riff Moroccans are like our Mexicans - dirt poor, illiterate and dependent - a democrat/liberal's dream.

Merit-based selectivity with choosing immigrants would be considered racist in the US by the dominant social structure (liberals/democrats/mainstream media).

The second mistake deciding to not give these new immigrants Dutch lessons.

From the US's point of view, this being 2022 US and not 1890 US, forcing the dominant language on immigrants, especially those of "less white" skin, is considered oppressive.

Now immigrants have to learn Dutch

This would be considered racism and colonialism if the US forced brown Mexican immigrants to speak English.

Based on what you've said, the Dutch treatment of Moroccans is exceptionally cruel.
 
I can understand that businesses would want cheap labor, but here in the US, conservatives want no part of illiterate immigrants - they will be poor and vote democrat if given a chance. We're on the verge of giving non-citizens the right to vote in the US. Another drawback to conservatives wanting cheap labor in the US is the welfare state. Your Riff Moroccans are like our Mexicans - dirt poor, illiterate and dependent - a democrat/liberal's dream.
They weren't supposed to stay, they were seen by the fiscal conservatives and christian parties seen as cheap disposable workers. They needed to go Morocco because they already brought in a lot of Italians and Spanish workers. And it was the government that decided to go for these throw away immigrants.
Merit-based selectivity with choosing immigrants would be considered racist in the US by the dominant social structure (liberals/democrats/mainstream media).
I think we need to differentiate between cheap labor, needed immigrants in more advanced fields and refugees. You can select the workers you want, except if you try and restrict people too much you will get illegal immigration. So let in as many as you need for cheap labor and generously allowed higher trained immigrants (that are needed) and have refugees come over in reasonably moderate numbers.

But we have an issue there, all citizens of the EU are allowed to move to any country, so also to the Netherlands.But usually they are people with employment or companies that are theirs.
From the US's point of view, this being 2022 US and not 1890 US, forcing the dominant language on immigrants, especially those of "less white" skin, is considered oppressive.
It was seen here too, but we have to think of the next generation and the generation after that. They can be as diverse as they want to be, as long as they know the language IMO (and remember, I am social democrat/leftist Dutch person).
This would be considered racism and colonialism if the US forced brown Mexican immigrants to speak English.

Based on what you've said, the Dutch treatment of Moroccans is exceptionally cruel.
Why? Mexico was never a colony of the Americans. It was a colony of the Spanish.

And I do not think it is cruel. It vastly increases their chances on good well paying work. And most of the immigrants from the early wave of Moroccans have decided to make this their home as they like it here better than there (to live, even if a lot of them are buried in their Moroccan village they once came from).
 
But we have an issue there, all citizens of the EU are allowed to move to any country, so also to the Netherlands.But usually they are people with employment or companies that are theirs.

This is part of the reason why the UK had Brexit. Was it France and Sweden that have the "no go" zones because they are filled with unassimilated, non-Western foreigners? I'm not sure if the Netherlands has the same issue.

Why? Mexico was never a colony of the Americans. It was a colony of the Spanish.

Mexicans jump the border by the thousands. They are in the US, illiterate and poor.

And I do not think it is cruel. It vastly increases their chances on good well paying work.

From a US perspective, an immigrant (especially a brown one, which a Hispanic or Moroccan would qualify as) being pressured to speak English would represent an onus of assimilation. English is the language of the oppressor, conqueror, colonialist and capitalist. Your views on Moroccans learning Dutch for a better chance at good paying work (to function better in a capitalist system) would be considered as far-right and fascist point of view in the US.

By "US perspective", I mean the dominant, proper and accepted way of thinking here, not necessary my own.
 
This is part of the reason why the UK had Brexit. Was it France and Sweden that have the "no go" zones because they are filled with unassimilated, non-Western foreigners? I'm not sure if the Netherlands has the same issue.
Wrong, the issue was stupid lies they were told, a huge dose of racism and stupid arrogance IMO. They were too uneducated about the brexit issues and it has and will continue to cost them dearly.

Because young muslim men from no-go areas in Sweden and France were not moving to the UK.
Mexicans jump the border by the thousands. They are in the US, illiterate and poor.
Which has nothing to do with your comment of colonialism with regard to the Mexicans.
From a US perspective, an immigrant (especially a brown one, which a Hispanic or Moroccan would qualify as) being pressured to speak English would represent an onus of assimilation. English is the language of the oppressor, conqueror, colonialist and capitalist. Your views on Moroccans learning Dutch for a better chance at good paying work (to function better in a capitalist system) would be considered as far-right and fascist point of view in the US.

By "US perspective", I mean the dominant, proper and accepted way of thinking here, not necessary my own.
Except if you voluntarily move to a country you are willing to go there so all that colonialism stuff is nonsensical IMO.
 
(3) shall not promote as part of a course of instruction or in a
curriculum or instructional program the concept that an
individual, by virtue of sex, race, ethnicity, religion, color, or
national origin, is inherently responsible for actions
committed in the past
by other members of the same sex, race,
ethnicity, religion, color, or national origin.


That is going to be a very weird law to enforce. So can I blame a white Southern slave owner in 1850 for owning slaves, or would that run afoul of the law because the institution of slavery in America was created a couple hundred years before him?

I think the intent of this law is to prevent people from saying that there was an institution of black slavery by white people, but the wording of this law doesn’t really achieve that. Racists think they’re being blamed for slavery that happened over a hundred years before they were born, but they only think that because they’re completely insane. So now they’ll have a law that will protect them from something that isn’t happening.

The only way they’re going to get the kind of law they want is to create one that specifically bans the teaching of slavery from American history.
I didn't read it that way, but how it was written.

To me it is saying you can't be blamed for what your ancestors might have done.
 
I didn't read it that way, but how it was written.

To me it is saying you can't be blamed for what your ancestors might have done.
While there are too many insane people to account for so I can’t say that literally nobody does this, for all intents and purposes, nobody does this.
 
I can understand that businesses would want cheap labor, but here in the US, conservatives want no part of illiterate immigrants - they will be poor and vote democrat if given a chance. We're on the verge of giving non-citizens the right to vote in the US. Another drawback to conservatives wanting cheap labor in the US is the welfare state. Your Riff Moroccans are like our Mexicans - dirt poor, illiterate and dependent - a democrat/liberal's dream.
Merit-based selectivity with choosing immigrants would be considered racist in the US by the dominant social structure (liberals/democrats/mainstream media).
From the US's point of view, this being 2022 US and not 1890 US, forcing the dominant language on immigrants, especially those of "less white" skin, is considered oppressive.
This would be considered racism and colonialism if the US forced brown Mexican immigrants to speak English.
Based on what you've said, the Dutch treatment of Moroccans is exceptionally cruel.
what a load of privilege bull shit...
-peace
1649564628923.png
 
Ever consider the possibility that CRT-based public policy is likely to exacerbate racial inequalities, and that fighting CRT may actually be a way to fight those inequalities?
No
 
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