Clinton/Biden/Trump

[bubbabgone]

So you already made up your mind - without the details. But you're asking for the details before believing the opposition is correct in wanting to learn the details. Do you really think in this crazy way or are you trolling me?

I read the law, I saw what the DNI said initially, I saw that the DOJ agreed and added the additional complication of executive privilege.
Now, unless you're trolling me ... what do you know different?

 

[bubbabgone]

What do we know? Well we know that:

1. Trump sent his "personal attorney" with state dept funding to dig up dirt on a political opponent in exchange for military funding which is pretty much what you all accused Clinton/Biden of doing.

2. We know that dumbass Rudy corroborated the story live on CNN.

3. Trump thinks it is illegal if a politician tried to use Ukraine (or other countries) to investigate a political rival and has accused Hillary Clinton of doing this 100+ times.

4. Thereby for years you and other Trump supporters have been posting that the collusion was done by Democrats and Clinton/intelligence officers should go to prison for doing the stuff you claim is no big deal now.

5. Accepting dirt on your opponents from a foreign power is considered treason.

6. Trump threatened to withdraw aid (and DID!) If they didn't follow through with what he demanded but all I'm reading is why is it concerning?

7. Why is Trump demanding other countries to interfere in our election?

8. We also know Trump said that he would accept foreign interference from other countries during the election

9 We know Trump asked Ukraine a total of eight times and that there is audio recorded evidence of the process.

10. We also know that Trump and Barr are responsible for shielding the attempt to make all of the details public

So yes, there are serious problems involving intelligence activities.

So, as predicted, you've had to move on from the whistleblower law that didn't apply.
True to form.

 

[Mach]

I read the law, I saw what the DNI said initially, I saw that the DOJ agreed and added the additional complication of executive privilege. Now, unless you're trolling me ... what do you know different?

Trump's DOJ said it's not a big deal? LOL. And yet you don't have the details of the whistleblower complain to determine if what DOJ said is appropriate. We don't know if it was appropriate for DNI to first go to DOJ either. DOJ's first claim is that since the whistleblower complaint is about urgent and concerning actions of Trump, therefore it's not "urgent", and does not have to be forwarded. Their fallback position, is that Trump also claims executive privilege.

 

[NeverTrump]

So, as predicted, you've had to move on from the whistleblower law that didn't apply.
True to form.

Yeah, that's b/c I already debunked your concerns about the whistle-blower. As predicted, you are getting backed into a corner with no arguments left as the scandal gets worse and worse, since Trump appears to have done this to protect Manafort, who is currently in prison anyway.

 

[bubbabgone]

Trump's DOJ said it's not a big deal? LOL. And yet you don't have the details of the whistleblower complain to determine if what DOJ said is appropriate. We don't know if it was appropriate for DNI to first go to DOJ either. DOJ's first claim is that since the whistleblower complaint is about urgent and concerning actions of Trump, therefore it's not "urgent", and does not have to be forwarded. Their fallback position, is that Trump also claims executive privilege.

Common sense should tell you that Executive Privilege is in the mix ... but it's not a fallback ... it's an insurmountable hurdle.
The other hurdle is that THAT Law itself doesn't apply to conduct by someone outside the intel community.
It's in the text of the Law.
Both of those are pretty much settled.

I'm afraid you're gonna lose another one.
Your only hope remains that there might be something in the phone call that sounds inappropriate.
THAT'S the fallback position and I recognize from experience that no matter what was said, certain people will call it damning.
Those people have consistently been wrong for years.

 

[bubbabgone]

Yeah, that's b/c I already debunked your concerns about the whistle-blower. As predicted, you are getting backed into a corner with no arguments left as the scandal gets worse and worse, since Trump appears to have done this to protect Manafort, who is currently in prison anyway.

Quote the text in the Law that requires it be treated as a legitimate whistleblower complaint.

 

[NeverTrump]

Quote the text in the Law that requires it be treated as a legitimate whistleblower complaint.

It went through official channels. You are really grasping at straws and showing your general lack of knowledge of the story here....

 

[Lutherf]

Investigating political corruption is now something the media is against, apparently.

That pretty much depends on what side of the aisle is being investigated.

 

[nitroexpress]

It went through official channels. You are really grasping at straws and showing your general lack of knowledge of the story here....

In a Sept. 17 letter to Schiff, Maguire’s general counsel, Jason Klitenic, said the whistleblower complaint was determined not to be an “urgent concern.”

The law did not require the director of national intelligence to forward it to Congress because it involved “conduct by someone outside the Intelligence Community and did not relate to any ‘intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the DNI,’ ” he claimed.

Klitenic also said the complaint involved “confidential and potentially privileged communications.” Disclosure would violate the president’s authority to control classified information and the whistleblower and inspector general were barred from sending the information directly to Congress, he said.

 

[bubbabgone]

It went through official channels. You are really grasping at straws and showing your general lack of knowledge of the story here....

I asked for the text in the Law. You've never read it have you. You shouldn't comment about things you've never read.

 

[bubbabgone]

In a Sept. 17 letter to Schiff, Maguire’s general counsel, Jason Klitenic, said the whistleblower complaint was determined not to be an “urgent concern.”

The law did not require the director of national intelligence to forward it to Congress because it involved “conduct by someone outside the Intelligence Community and did not relate to any ‘intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the DNI,’ ” he claimed.

Klitenic also said the complaint involved “confidential and potentially privileged communications.” Disclosure would violate the president’s authority to control classified information and the whistleblower and inspector general were barred from sending the information directly to Congress, he said.

There you go destroying all the fun.
I wanted to see how far he'd go without actually forcing himself to read the Law.
Oh well, we can still wait to see if he continues to demonstrate his reluctance to inform himself.
I'm thinking he's too far into the hole to claw his way out.
Let's watch ...

 

[NeverTrump]

I asked for the text in the Law. You've never read it have you. You shouldn't comment about things you've never read.

So you have more a problem with an unknown whistleblower who you say didn't follow the law and in your eyes likely a partisan who doesn't know what he's doing simply b/c Trump and his lackeys have told you this, rather than a President who the intelligence community and other political officials say he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment? All while the President simultaneously is blocking the release of said report? Really?

Your priorities are just a little lopsided, IMO.

 

[bubbabgone]

So you have more a problem with an unknown whistleblower who you say didn't follow the law and in your eyes likely a partisan who doesn't know what he's doing simply b/c Trump and his lackeys have told you this, rather than a President who the intelligence community and other political officials say he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment? All while the President simultaneously is blocking the release of said report? Really?

Your priorities are just a little lopsided, IMO.

You don't care that the requirements of the whistleblower Law weren't met but you're bitching that the DNI didn't pretend they were like you are. Now you've admitted it. Like you said ... "Your priorities are just a little lopsided, IMO."

Who in "the intelligence community and other political officials say he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment?" Names please.

 

[NeverTrump]

You don't care that the requirements of the whistleblower Law weren't met but you're bitching that the DNI didn't pretend they were like you are. Now you've admitted it. Like you said ... "Your priorities are just a little lopsided, IMO."

Who in "the intelligence community and other political officials say he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment?" Names please.

Mitt Romney and Joe Biden both came out and said this matter needs to be looked into. Lindsey Graham also wants more details. Trump said he's willing to release the call, but so far his allies are resisting. Why does Trump continually say he will do things and then backs out like a coward? AKA Tax Returns.

Also how can you claim to know that the requirements weren't met? Has anyone other than Trump lackeys said this? Names please.

 

[bubbabgone]

Mitt Romney and Joe Biden both came out and said this matter needs to be looked into. Lindsey Graham also wants more details. Trump said he's willing to release the call, but so far his allies are resisting. Why does Trump continually say he will do things and then backs out like a coward? AKA Tax Returns.

Also how can you claim to know that the requirements weren't met? Has anyone other than Trump lackeys said this? Names please.

Joe Biden and Mitt Romney?
For one thing Romney didn't say "he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment" and for another Joe Biden is frantic about his campaign and he only said it should be looked into.

You yourself would know the requirements weren't met if you read the Law. You've had enough time. Have you read it yet?

 

[NeverTrump]

Joe Biden and Mitt Romney?
For one thing Romney didn't say "he practically bribed a country and broke numerous laws and deserves impeachment" and for another Joe Biden is frantic about his campaign and he only said it should be looked into.

You yourself would know the requirements weren't met if you read the Law. You've had enough time. Have you read it yet?

I thought you needed all the details to come out? How do you know the burden of the whistle-blower law isn't being met if all the details aren't available to the public? Do you work in intelligence?

 

[bubbabgone]

I thought you needed all the details to come out? How do you know the burden of the whistle-blower law isn't being met if all the details aren't available to the public? Do you work in intelligence?

You really aren't aware of anything about this are you.
Some things we do know already.
We know the most important thing and we knew it a week ago.

The DNI wouldn't send the complaint to Congress because, as WAPO reiterated again today ...

The most recent dust-up, though, is somewhat unusual. A whistleblower, whose identity is not known, complained to the inspector general of the intelligence community with a concern that the inspector general deemed both “credible” and “urgent.” Normally, such complaints are supposed to be forwarded to the intelligence committees within seven days.
But before that could be done, Joseph Maguire, Acting Director of National Intelligence, asked the Justice Department to get involved. And the department’s Office of Legal Counsel decided that the complaint should not be shared.
Maguire told lawmakers as much in a Sept. 13 letter, asserting that the complaint “concerned conduct by someone outside the Intelligence Community and did not relate to any ‘intelligence activity within the responsibility and authority of the DNI.’ ”
“The complaint therefore did not fall within the statutory framework governing reporting matters of ‘urgent concern’ to Congress,” Maguire wrote.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...abc129a0_story.html?wpisrc=nl_politics&wpmm=1

It's public knowledge. It's been public knowledge.

Very early on I was curious about the reason the DNI rejected the complaint so I tried to find out.
[That's a good practice to get into, I recommend it]
That's when I found the DNI statement WAPO just repeated and I posted it here on DP at that time.
It's old news but seldom acknowledged by partisans in the media, or accepted by partisans here on DP.

But you have no excuse now.

But there are things we still don't know.
Like ...
If the alleged whistleblower didn't actually hear anything first-hand who told them?
Did anyone tell them?
How long has Schiff known it was all BS?
Did Schiff communicate with the alleged whistleblower before the complaint was made to the DNI and did he tell the whistleblower to use the Law even though it didn't apply?

 

[Mycroft]

So what do we got? Take away the names.

1. 5+ year old rumor that politician is buried deep with plot to get uranium from a foreign country and enrich a charitable foundation through those funds.
2. New rumor that a different politician's son is buried deep with a plot to enrich his family with foreign funds.
3. Fact that a sitting President bribed a country on eight separate occasions to look into oppo research on his political rival.
4. Sitting President appears to take issue w/something that they claim rival does, while doing what they claim rival does.

*supporters of sitting President still somehow don't see a problem w/point number 4???

What is different about what Trump did vs what you all think Biden/Clinton did?

According to alt-right conspiracy theories, Clinton is buried deep in a Uranium One plot where she got money from foreign countries. There is no proof to this conspiracy theory.

According to alt-right conspiracy theories, Biden's son is buried deep in a Ukrainian plot where the family got money from foreign countries. No proof has been presented by Team Trump to back up those claims.

According to a whistle-blower who has gone through all the proper channels and who's claims has been fact-checked by various news organizations... There is hard proof, audio records, and notes that Trump and team have asked Ukraine multiple times to look into Joe Biden in order to benefit Trump's election in 2020. Accordingly Trump dangled foreign aid to Ukraine after Putin's invasion of that country and only if they'd do that.

There is no credible basis to number 3. There certainly IS credible basis to numbers 1 and 2. Number 4 falls apart in light of the failure of number 3.

The whistle-blower has presented nothing but rumor and his/her opinion about the rumor.

btw, Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. Who was President when that happened? Who was Vice President when that happened? Who has self-admitted withhold aid if Ukraine didn't do what they demanded?

So what do we got? Trump haters deliberately ignoring the actions of the Obama administration, while making **** up about the Trump administration.

 

[NeverTrump]

You really aren't aware of anything about this are you.
Some things we do know already.
We know the most important thing and we knew it a week ago.

The DNI wouldn't send the complaint to Congress because, as WAPO reiterated again today ...


It's public knowledge. It's been public knowledge.

Very early on I was curious about the reason the DNI rejected the complaint so I tried to find out.
[That's a good practice to get into, I recommend it]
That's when I found the DNI statement WAPO just repeated and I posted it here on DP at that time.
It's old news but seldom acknowledged by partisans in the media, or accepted by partisans here on DP.

But you have no excuse now.

But there are things we still don't know.
Like ...
If the alleged whistleblower didn't actually hear anything first-hand who told them?
Did anyone tell them?
How long has Schiff known it was all BS?
Did Schiff communicate with the alleged whistleblower before the complaint was made to the DNI and did he tell the whistleblower to use the Law even though it didn't apply?

So you are taking Maguire's lawyers words vs that of practically everyone else? OK.

 

[NeverTrump]

There is no credible basis to number 3. There certainly IS credible basis to numbers 1 and 2. Number 4 falls apart in light of the failure of number 3.

The whistle-blower has presented nothing but rumor and his/her opinion about the rumor.

btw, Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014. Who was President when that happened? Who was Vice President when that happened? Who has self-admitted withhold aid if Ukraine didn't do what they demanded?

So what do we got? Trump haters deliberately ignoring the actions of the Obama administration, while making **** up about the Trump administration.

That's b/c Trump is blocking the release of the details. How do you people not get this?

 

[bubbabgone]

So you are taking Maguire's lawyers words vs that of practically everyone else? OK.

Explain yourself.

 

[NeverTrump]

Explain yourself.

Over the past 12 hours everyone is condemning Trump for his actions, yet the hand-picked lawyer (someone who is paid to agree with) Trump's hand-picked acting DNI, says it's no big deal. Yeah, I'll believe that when pigs fly. This also just so happens to be Trump and Rudy's defense. Everyone seems to have their ducks in a row and these people are giving me no reason to trust them on their insistence nothing went wrong.

 

[Mycroft]

That's b/c Trump is blocking the release of the details. How do you people not get this?

Why should Trump release privileged communications? Because you've concocted an imaginary scenario? You can go pound sand.

 

[bubbabgone]

Over the past 12 hours everyone is condemning Trump for his actions, yet the hand-picked lawyer (someone who is paid to agree with) Trump's hand-picked acting DNI, says it's no big deal. Yeah, I'll believe that when pigs fly. This also just so happens to be Trump and Rudy's defense. Everyone seems to have their ducks in a row and these people are giving me no reason to trust them on their insistence nothing went wrong.

Leaving aside for a moment the embarrassing blunders in that post, what has it got to do with the fact that the complaint didn't comply with the Law?

 

[NeverTrump]

Why should Trump release privileged communications? Because you've concocted an imaginary scenario? You can go pound sand.

I think he'd want it proven that we are so wrong so he can laugh. He doesn't seem to care about classified info.