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Clinging to your Bible!

ChristopherHall said:
Apostle13,

My addressing you publicly about this was to allow those reading this to see that there is a Christian who understands them and where they are coming from. I was also allowing you to perhaps openly show understanding and perhaps unload the "Bible machine gun" so that you and your friend could really talk. Your response showed that you were operating in the flesh, that is if you have the Holy Ghost. Please don't take it personally, we've all been there...and I assure you we will be there again. We need eachother to bring clarity and balance sometimes.

"Open rebuke is better than secret love." - Proverbs 27:5 (King James Version)
You want I should eat this pie(humble) all alone after we scratched and baked it together... Fine... I know all about saving face.
Nice tie.
 
Apostle13 said:
Are you then therefore baptized in water, and in Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues..? I should think not..? That was my only true assumption. It is a Spiritual level of comprehension, that which I spake.
...But I can see where you might take insult, especially in light of our history here... I'd be lying if I said it was not intentional..:2razz:
You certainly have proven the public assumptions of your pomposity, superiority complex and false prophet. Christian indeed.....you cling to a false notion, rather than any true word. I know Jews and Wiccans that show more 'Christian' love than you could ever muster.
Bathe in your false witness and mistaken idealism. The rest of us will truly follow the golden rule....
 
MrFungus420 said:
What I said was perfectly true, you can quote either holy book to support the contention that either Christianity or Islam is a religion of hate that seeks to eliminate unbelievers. I said nothing about acts being committed. However, if you look at the history of Christianity, it is at least as violent as Islam is.

Yep, I don't know much about the Koran, but I hear it has a few hateful messages. But Christianity has resulted in more violence over the last 2,000 years than any other cause:

www.geocities.com/Athens/5195/victims.html
 
ngdawg said:
You certainly have proven the public assumptions of your pomposity, superiority complex and false prophet. Christian indeed.....you cling to a false notion, rather than any true word. I know Jews and Wiccans that show more 'Christian' love than you could ever muster.
Bathe in your false witness and mistaken idealism. The rest of us will truly follow the golden rule....
I'm beginning to believe that you really actually don't like me. :gunner: :surrender
 
Which I bet just causes you sleepless nights...:yawn:
 
im dissapointed with up:

to call Islam a religion of hate with NO EVEIDENCE, PROOF is ignorance. It is hateful for you to say such hateful words in the first place. So if you are going to call it hateful, GIVE US EVIDENCE.
 
i believe in tranquility said:
im dissapointed with up:

to call Islam a religion of hate with NO EVEIDENCE, PROOF is ignorance. It is hateful for you to say such hateful words in the first place. So if you are going to call it hateful, GIVE US EVIDENCE.

Ok, how about a few passages...

"4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,"

This one tells them not to have friends who are unbelievers, and to kill unbelievers wherever you find them.

"4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant."

If unbelievers do not keep aloof from believers, or offer peace, then kill them wherever you find them.

"5:63 Why do not the rabbis and the priests forbid their evil-speaking and their devouring of illicit gain ? Verily evil is their handiwork."

Rabbis and priests are evil.

"9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

Capture, besiege and kill idolators. Unless they repent, establish worship and pay the "poor-due".

"9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)."

Fight the disbelievers near you, and do it harshly.

There's a start. It is a continuing theme throughout the Koran. I just gave a few of the more straight-forward verses. There is also a near constant harangue that unbelievers are all liars and evil.
 
Upstart said:
By "Church killings" I asume you refer to the Inquisition. Once again, this was done by the Catholic church and this is not Christianity.


You made me a kind of interested in history of Inquisition. I know about it approximately the same about as you do and approximately from the same sources.
But what happened to a few times: I certainly knew about something, especially in history, than I looked at it myself and found my previous knowledge was a totally false. History is written by people.
I may be completely wrong, but I feel some doubts in general knowledge of Inquisitions and "Church killings".
You see, reading this posts, I find you, guys agree, - there were periods of time when Christians were hated and killed in those "atheistic countries". My intuition says (may be completely wrong): the killings had to be ""justified" by the murders, because they had to have (millions, crowds) of people on their side. There had to be a propaganda machine there, using billons of money. And those countries cold not be as isolated as it looks. They could spend their billons to buy propaganda abroad as well…. It is like beginning of a lead…

I don’t know how it is related and whether it is true – but I heard somewhere, that Church was banning paintings of naked human bodies. Then I see all these ancient statues never destroyed by the Church – and pieces of the puzzle do not come together.

Also (I am not a Catholic) I would not be in a hurry to make hits on the Catholic Church, and some other “”killings””, – I would consider events on the case by case basis. What if sometimes just personal goals of money and power were involved with almost intentional use of Christ as a cover up?
And I would look at the things not from my position, when around me a killer just presses a button and don’t even see the victims, - but from the position of somebody living in those times, when the killings were done all “by hand”. Was the Guillotine a most merciful way of killing ever invented? >>>> for those people? What if Inquisition was the most merciful way out of their situation for them? What could be the situation? I don’t know, I don’t know at all…
 
fungus: my point is that you cannot call islam violent without calling everyother religion violent. there has not been one religion with NOT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
 
i believe in tranquility said:
fungus: my point is that you cannot call islam violent without calling everyother religion violent. there has not been one religion with NOT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
Buddhism, completely non-violent
 
"completely" wrong friend. Kung fu for example has taken Buddhist influence towards nature and lifesytle. Although they do not reccomend violence, it is used. SO YET AGAIN: there has not been a single religion WITHOUT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
 
i believe in tranquility said:
"completely" wrong friend. Kung fu for example has taken Buddhist influence towards nature and lifesytle. Although they do not reccomend violence, it is used. SO YET AGAIN: there has not been a single religion WITHOUT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE.
Buddhism has nothing to do with Kung Fu. You've watched too many kung fu movies.
 
I watched to many kung fu movies.....ok...besides your assumption...


Martial Arts has a connection with Buddhism. You cant seriously argue against that. I know many Buddhists who have fought IN DEFNSE (never on the offense, but my point is that there still is violence).
 
i believe in tranquility said:
I watched to many kung fu movies.....ok...besides your assumption...


Martial Arts has a connection with Buddhism. You cant seriously argue against that. I know many Buddhists who have fought IN DEFNSE (never on the offense, but my point is that there still is violence).
Yes, I very much can argue with that. Martial arts is just that. It's an artform.
Buddhists are total pacifists. Violence is not any part of buddhism at all.
Name me a single war or "scuttle" that involved buddhists.
No buddhist has ever used buddhism as an excuse for agression or violence towards anyone else. The very nature of buddhism is pacifism.

Next for you to even begin to contrast islamic violence with all religions is a bit arrogant.
 
i believe in tranquility said:
fungus: my point is that you cannot call islam violent without calling everyother religion violent. there has not been one religion with NOT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE.

You asked for proof that Islam is a hateful religion. I supplied some of that proof.

It is filled with verses against unbelievers, continually calling them evil and liars. It continually tells believers to abandon the unbelievers, to not associate with them. Reading through the Koran, I am incredulous that anyone could call it a religion of peace and tolerance.

I would say that the point here isn't about isolated incidents, but about a continuing theme of violence, intolerance and hatred.
 
Yes, I very much can argue with that. Martial arts is just that. It's an artform.
Buddhists are total pacifists. Violence is not any part of buddhism at all.
Name me a single war or "scuttle" that involved buddhists.
No buddhist has ever used buddhism as an excuse for agression or violence towards anyone else. The very nature of buddhism is pacifism.

Next for you to even begin to contrast islamic violence with all religions is a bit arrogant.

you just said what i said. you said NOT FOR AGGRESION, and I said NOT FOR OFFENSE....that is the same thing. What I am arguing is that I know buddhists that have used physical force in a DEFENSIVE manner. Again i am aguring that there has not been a single religion WITHOUT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE (whether that violence is defense or offensive). Obsiouvsly you are correct about buddhism NOT using its religion to back up wars....that not what im arguing.....
 
i believe in tranquility said:
you just said what i said. you said NOT FOR AGGRESION, and I said NOT FOR OFFENSE....that is the same thing. What I am arguing is that I know buddhists that have used physical force in a DEFENSIVE manner. Again i am aguring that there has not been a single religion WITHOUT A SINGLE ACT OF VIOLENCE (whether that violence is defense or offensive). Obsiouvsly you are correct about buddhism NOT using its religion to back up wars....that not what im arguing.....

Actually, that is entirely irrelevent. Your original claim had nothing to do with violence. Your original claim was:
i believe in tranquility said:
im dissapointed with up:

to call Islam a religion of hate with NO EVEIDENCE, PROOF is ignorance. It is hateful for you to say such hateful words in the first place. So if you are going to call it hateful, GIVE US EVIDENCE.

Notice, it was about hatred, not violence.

I gave you some evidence of the hatred espoused in the Koran. After that was when you changed your claim to one that there has never been a religion without a single act of violence. That standard had never been mentioned until after you were given the evidence of the hatred in Islam.

So, you were given the evidence, then you changed your point of contention, and you're now trying to claim victory based on the new standard.

Sorry, that doesn't work.
 
fungus: arguements change....and Hatred is linked to violence. An example: lynching (but lets not get into that..lol)
 
i believe in tranquility said:
fungus: arguements change....and Hatred is linked to violence. An example: lynching (but lets not get into that..lol)
I am convinced that Islam is hate based... Even the so called moderate Muslims choose overall, silence against the extremist actions of their brothers... Not so much I believe because they are scared of retaliation, but rather, they agree (silently) with the cause. The Qua ran verses Mr. Fungus supplied here are just a random portion of many... They suck you in with the guise of peace and promise, by way of what..? Submission! Thats right, Islam itself is defined as submission.
Allah and Yahweh are not the same... Far be it... Complete opposites.
Having said that... Christianity has its own guises/pitfalls.
 
tall: christ himself didnt have pitfalls....but people who claim to be christians have defied what he taught entirely.
 
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