- Jan 28, 2006
- Reaction score
- Political Leaning
Why the limited choices? Not trying to force a certain answer are you.....why not a man....with advanced compassion and understanding....who never claimed to be God.Upstart said:So, do you think He was God, insane, or a liar?
Plenty of people will die for their lies to carry their act through to the end, so that's a moot point. Most national leaders went to their deaths proclaiming their lies to their bitter ends.Upstart said:Jesus went to His death because of His claiming to be God. What kind of a liar would die for his lie? Also, Jesus lived a perfect life. How could a man be so perfect in His life that the blood-thirsty Jews could not find a thing to accuse Him of except of His claim to be God?.
He also could not be crazy, for He spoke such words of wisdom that the greatest minds even today quote Him.
He claimed to be God, and the Jews understood it. That's why they hated Him so much.tecoyah said:Why the limited choices? Not trying to force a certain answer are you.....why not a man....with advanced compassion and understanding....who never claimed to be God.
I did not say that all Jews are evil. I meant that those Jewish leaders hated Jesus and followed Him around trying to get Him to slip up. As for one God, I believe that the Bible teaches that God is made up of three people: the Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit. There is proof of this in the first chapter of Genesis:"Let US make man in OUR own image."ngdawg said:Blood-thirsty jews? We wouldn't be slightly prejudiced now, would we? Hardly Christian-like, seeing as how you worship a jew. Let's not forget, there is only one God, so some man walking the desert proclaiming himself to be so would not fare well....what would YOU do if someone proclaimed it now?
I can quote him too. Doesn't mean a damned thing, really. A good quote comes from anywhere.
Changing from blood-thirsty to stalking teachers is quite a feat of back-pedalling When someone goes not only against their teachings, but openly defies those who taught, it does tend to tick a few off. Jewish priests and their council of rabbis were not only the religious leaders, but the law-makers as well, so yea, I can see them being a bit peeved...Upstart said:I did not say that all Jews are evil. I meant that those Jewish leaders hated Jesus and followed Him around trying to get Him to slip up. As for one God, I believe that the Bible teaches that God is made up of three people: the Father, Son (Jesus), Holy Spirit. There is proof of this in the first chapter of Genesis:"Let US make man in OUR own image."
Also, the Hebrew word for God is used in the plural in that context.
Mr. D said:The point of the thread is that you have to accept the Bible as the word of God or everything else falls apart! If you don't buy that premise the rest has no meaning! All the Bible quotes become babble!
What if the Bible cannot be proven to be the word of God? What if it is the word of men? Kowabunga! We'd have to fall back on reason, common sense, logic and science in making decisions rather than having mindless adherence and blind faith to silly unbelieveable stories and contradictory teachings that require Bible scholarship! Have you noticed that Bible scholars have to interpret the meaning of the Bible for you. Left with just the words and your common sense, on your own, it sounds just a wee bit unbelieveable and contradictory!
The following is what I believe:
Upstart said:God is the one who decides what is in the Bible, God makes the laws.
Upstart said:Other religions,such as Islam, was made by a man.
Upstart said:Not Christianity. We don't decide what we want in the Bible and what we want to be the law.
Upstart said:Muhammed(I don't know how to spell it) was a very immoral man. He married a 9 year old girl. He made a religion of hate that seeks to wipe out everyone who doesn't agree with him and enslave whoever they want.
Upstart said:Because if you want to live however you want, you will pay for your sin.
Christians are not perfect. We are not sinless.
But we have realized that stuff like stealing and fornication is sin,
and that we cannot hope to redeme ourselves, and that Christ, the Son of God, paid for our sins. We trust in Christ, not ourselves. We still sin, but we try not to.
I would be a fool if I just believed the Bible out of blind faith. It is a decision that will affect my eternal destination. I believe in the Bible because it is the most accurately copied ancient book in existance, because it holds prophecies that have come true, because it is both historicaly and scientificly accurate when it speaks on those matters, and because of Jesus. I believe in Jesus that He has paid for my sins, and that some day soon He will return for His people.MrFungus420 said:Back to the circular argument. "How do we know the Bible is correct, because God says so. How do we know God says so, because it's in the Bible."
Besides, it wasn't god who decided what is in the Bible, it was the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century CE.
If you're familiar with the Apocrypha, they are among the books that the Council of Nicaea decided would not be included in the Bible.
Those who follow those other religions would be equally justified to claim that their religion is the real one, and Christianity is one of the false ones made up by men.
Well, you don't decide what is in the Bible, it was decided over 300 years after the supposed death of Jesus by a group of men.
It is easy enough to make the argument that the Bible promotes a religion of hate that seeks to wipe out unbelievers. It is equally easy to quote scripture from either holy book to support that contention.
The only reason that you feel the Bible to be true is that you lready believe in it. The reason that you believe in it is (most likely) that you were brought up to do so. If you had been born in an Islamic community, you would probably be denouncing Christianity and calling Islam the one, true religion.
ngdawg said:List two 'prophecies that came true' and I'll match them from the writings of Nostradamus.
Historically accurate? Would that be because the ancient cities of the Middle East are that old? So are the Incan ruins. Perhaps they hold more truth than the bible.
As stated, you believe it because it was given to you to do so. Had you grown up in Iran, you would probably be following the Koran. Had you grown up in India, you may be Hindu. We follow what we learn, what we're comfortable with and what we think we understand. No one is born believing in Jesus, they have to be taught to. Then we make the choice to accept what we are taught or not.
ChristopherHall said:I received the Holy Ghost. Speaking in other tongues, the whole works. I've also known 5 people to be healed of cancer...all in our church. Of course the doctors admit they don't know how or why, yet they assure us that there must be a "rational explaination".
God is a lot like "love". If you've never felt him or experienced him...it's a waste of time to try to prove he exists.
nkgupta80 said:you also find the same accounts of miracles in many othre religions.
Here are the ones most familiar dealing with the actual crucifixion... Your beloved Nostradamus was never so accurate;ngdawg said:List two 'prophecies that came true' and I'll match them from the writings of Nostradamus.
Apostle13 said:Here are the ones most familiar dealing with the actual crucifixion... Your beloved Nostradamus was never so accurate;
If you need the alternative/fulfilled scriptures they are all found within the Gosples...
ChristopherHall said:You and I believe the Bible. However, if an individual believes that the Bible has been "re-worked" to seemingly facilitate prophecy, quoting scripture will mean nothing to him or her.
The way to reveal God is to invite the individual into an "experience" with God and allow them to accept or decline. Once they experience God or have what some call a "God encounter", they will begin searching the scriptures with new eyes.
Share your testimony. Again...God is like love. One must often feel him and experience him for themselves before they can believe. Once they have encountered God they will then desire to delve into the deep and marvelous truths of the Bible.
Babes must first begin with milk and the eat meat when they are older. You cannot force steak down a babe's mouth, they will outright reject it or choke. To begin with scripture is often like trying to feed a newborn T-Bone Steak. Share what God has done in your life and how you feel him, experience him, and know him. Invite them to the same experience. Should they decline...respect their choice and just pray for them. Should they accept with a sincere heart...they will never be the same.
ChristopherHall said:John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)
The blood of Jesus is called the blood of God:
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (KJV)
Jesus is said to be "God with us":
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. (KJV)
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. (KJV)
Jesus is also refered to as being The everlasting Father:
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)
Jesus is the human tabernacle of Almighty God. Jesus is both fully man and fully God. Jesus is both the Father and the Son in one.
Jesus is God.
Apostle13 said:Practice what you preach much..?
Here are the ones most familiar dealing with the actual crucifixion... Your beloved Nostradamus was never so accurate;
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
If you need the alternative/fulfilled scriptures they are all found within the Gosples... But surely you know the story..?
ChristopherHall said:Please quote my entire post. In the very beginning I had said,
"The following is what I believe:"
The texts were therefore not intended to be proof or convincing evidence, rather they were simple me sharing my belief. The reader is perfectly free to disagree or to agree as they so choose. Your post on the other hand is quite different. It reads:
You use the texts as a "proof" of sorts in a confrontational way. We should share scripture and what we believe...but the power to convert or convince is in leading one to an experience with God not in merely quoting scripture.
Perhaps you are better suited for children's ministry.Babes must first begin with milk and the eat meat when they are older. You cannot force steak down a babe's mouth, they will outright reject it or choke. To begin with scripture is often like trying to feed a newborn T-Bone Steak.