Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton [W:48]

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

But does it actually reduce gun violence? People who want to kill people tend not to abide by gun free zones.

I really think people are missing the point of enlarging the gun free zone at the convention. Cops are going to have their hands full. They will undoubtedly pay close attention to all the law-abiding people who show up with guns strapped on or slung. If it were me, I'd be nervous as a cat. Watching law abiding people with guns -- because you want to go home alive -- is an unnecessary and dangerous diversion.

The governor of Ohio had better hope there's no blood bath during then RNC. He claims he doesn't have the power to suspend right to carry as the police union has requested. AND YET the right to carry IS SUSPENDED for a one-block radius around the center. As well, of course, as inside.

I find it very telling that he is not going to attend.

 

[americanwoman]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Depends on one's level of experience with a firearm.

Active shooters, however, don't take the time to stop shooting people and break their weapon down.

Why would they need to break it down after they start shooting?

They carry the weapon a a small bag, put the gun together and start shooting. They are aware of the risk that once they start at any point they coud be shot back so it makes no sense to break it down again.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

I really think people are missing the point of enlarging the gun free zone at the convention. Cops are going to have their hands full. They will undoubtedly pay close attention to all the law-abiding people who show up with guns strapped on or slung. If it were me, I'd be nervous as a cat. Watching law abiding people with guns -- because you want to go home alive -- is an unnecessary and dangerous diversion.

The governor of Ohio had better hope there's no blood bath during then RNC. He claims he doesn't have the power to suspend right to carry as the police union has requested. AND YET the right to carry IS SUSPENDED for a one-block radius around the center. As well, of course, as inside.

I find it very telling that he is not going to attend.

You don't find the following troubling in any way?

"We are sending a letter to Gov. Kasich requesting assistance from him. He could very easily do some kind of executive order or something -- I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point," Stephen Loomis, president of Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, told CNN. "They can fight about it after the RNC or they can lift it after the RNC, but I want him to absolutely outlaw open-carry in Cuyahoga County until this RNC is over."

One must remember that OC is already illegal without a permit in state of Ohio. Asking a rebublicant to suspend the constitution during the republicant national convention is a ridiculous idea. If anything, the governor should suspend, if not fire, the one making the unconstitutional request to "temporarily" turn a right into a crime.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Why would they need to break it down after they start shooting?

They carry the weapon a a small bag, put the gun together and start shooting. They are aware of the risk that once they start at any point they coud be shot back so it makes no sense to break it down again.

They don't break it down again.

 

[jimbo]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

I really think people are missing the point of enlarging the gun free zone at the convention. Cops are going to have their hands full. They will undoubtedly pay close attention to all the law-abiding people who show up with guns strapped on or slung. If it were me, I'd be nervous as a cat. Watching law abiding people with guns -- because you want to go home alive -- is an unnecessary and dangerous diversion.

The governor of Ohio had better hope there's no blood bath during then RNC. He claims he doesn't have the power to suspend right to carry as the police union has requested. AND YET the right to carry IS SUSPENDED for a one-block radius around the center. As well, of course, as inside.

I find it very telling that he is not going to attend.

And therein lies the problem. Who gets to decide just how large the gun free zone should be. Inside the building? A private venue. The owner or renter makes the choice. Off premises now there are probably unconstitutional zones already in place. So how big should these gun free zones be? A mile? Some say all the US.

As I see it, the real problem here is that the police union believes they are so powerful they have the right to demand suspending Constitutional rights.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You don't find the following troubling in any way?

One must remember that OC is already illegal without a permit in state of Ohio.

Why would I find it troubling? Who cares how he frames it? It reads as if he has a third grade education.

I swear to God, I don't think people get it. Let's say 25 cops are surrounded by 100 gathered protesters. Each of them with rifles slung over their shoulders. Think cops are going to be able to weed out those with permits? Or do you think it likely that they are going to be on hyper-vigilance like a coiled spring? It's a bad mix. Horrible.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

And therein lies the problem. Who gets to decide just how large the gun free zone should be. Inside the building? A private venue. The owner or renter makes the choice. Off premises now there are probably unconstitutional zones already in place. So how big should these gun free zones be? A mile? Some say all the US.

As I see it, the real problem here is that the police union believes they are so powerful they have the right to demand suspending Constitutional rights.

You guys act as if this is never done. Try open carrying in the ice cream shop where President Obama stops for a cone. Try bringing 50 of your besties and open carrying when the Gov. Kasich is on the ground shaking babies. This isn't unprecedented.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Why would I find it troubling? Who cares how he frames it? It reads as if he has a third grade education.

I swear to God, I don't think people get it. Let's say 25 cops are surrounded by 100 gathered protesters. Each of them with rifles slung over their shoulders. Think cops are going to be able to weed out those with permits? Or do you think it likely that they are going to be on hyper-vigilance like a coiled spring? It's a bad mix. Horrible.

Problem is that it's too late.
He should of asked a month or two ago, maybe they could enacted a session of the state legislature and had enough time to advertise it.
Imagine doing it on one days notice, would you lock up all the people who broke that law and didn't know?

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Why would I find it troubling? Who cares how he frames it? It reads as if he has a third grade education.

I swear to God, I don't think people get it. Let's say 25 cops are surrounded by 100 gathered protesters. Each of them with rifles slung over their shoulders. Think cops are going to be able to weed out those with permits? Or do you think it likely that they are going to be on hyper-vigilance like a coiled spring? It's a bad mix. Horrible.

That is the law - if police find that troubling then quit. The whole attitude that whatever makes the government employee's job easier should be "the law" and that they should be empowered arrest anyone with a permit that actually dares to use it is crazy. Let these police be the first to decide not to be armed in what they assert will be a very, very dangerous place.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Problem is that it's too late.
He should of asked a month or two ago, maybe they could enacted a session of the state legislature and had enough time to advertise it.
Imagine doing it on one days notice, would you lock up all the people who broke that law and didn't know?

You're right.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You're right.

I understand why he asked and why he's probably panicking.
I don't want this to be something bad, but I think it could be a nasty **** show.

 

[Ikari]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton [W:48

Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge, ahead of RNC - CNNPolitics.com

Unbelievable. What a knee jerk reaction. They should allow open carry not only in cleveland but in the republican convention. What if isis shows up? the only way to stop bad guys and corrupt cops with guns is to arm the good guys.

What? The government using tragedy to try to further restrict the rights and liberties of the People!!!??? Never!

 

[Henrin]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Yeah they should be expendable right?

Not even what I said. If anyone doing any profession is scared of doing their job then they should either consider working on their fears to continue to do their job or quit.

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You guys act as if this is never done. Try open carrying in the ice cream shop where President Obama stops for a cone. Try bringing 50 of your besties and open carrying when the Gov. Kasich is on the ground shaking babies. This isn't unprecedented.

You're right that it isn't unprecedented to establish local perimeters for visiting officials, but it is unprecedented to demand suspension of open carry for an entire county - which is over 400 square miles.

Also, shaking babies? :lol:

 

[Henrin]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Why would they need to break it down after they start shooting?

They carry the weapon a a small bag, put the gun together and start shooting. They are aware of the risk that once they start at any point they coud be shot back so it makes no sense to break it down again.

You break it down again when you're ready to leave. It shouldn't take long, so it's entirely doable.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You're right that it isn't unprecedented to establish local perimeters for visiting officials, but it is unprecedented to demand suspension of open carry for an entire county - which is over 400 square miles.

Also, shaking babies? :lol:

Yeah, I did that on purpose. Let's me know who's reading. :lol:

So, it's a matter of degree. Well, I completely understand that. I feel for the cops. It must be awful to feel as if one has a target on their back.

 

[Erod]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Possibly not but do you not think everyone carrying guns will make the cops job even more difficult?

If you're a cop, what concerns you more?

The guy who is open carrying, or the guy who has a weapon concealed?

 

[tres borrachos]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You guys act as if this is never done. Try open carrying in the ice cream shop where President Obama stops for a cone. Try bringing 50 of your besties and open carrying when the Gov. Kasich is on the ground shaking babies. This isn't unprecedented.

Shaking babies?

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

If you're a cop, what concerns you more?

The guy who is open carrying, or the guy who has a weapon concealed?

In that environment, how do you know who can legally carry? Why conceal it? If I'm a cop, they all scare me.

 

[americanwoman]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

You break it down again when you're ready to leave. It shouldn't take long, so it's entirely doable.

I would imagine if there was to be an active shooter at the convention, there wouldn't be an opportunity to leave.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

I understand the police union's concern and I personally wouldn't be upset by a temporary ban in a specific geographical location.

But it should chill you to the core when somebody like the president of a large police union says, "I don't care if it's constitutional or not at this point."

 

[Napoleon]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Yeah, I did that on purpose. Let's me know who's reading. :lol:

So, it's a matter of degree. Well, I completely understand that. I feel for the cops. It must be awful to feel as if one has a target on their back.

I do too and think the extent of the demand from the police union really shows their fear. I understand prohibiting open carry in and around the convention and even for blocks around, but the scope of what they're asking for is completely unenforceable.

 

[EnigmaO01]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Unless they're going to stop selling guns in the United States, including Cleveland, or keep any of the roughly three hundred million firearms in this country out of the hands of bad guys while the Republican National Convention is taking place, his statement is factual: "Bad guys with guns will break the law anyway." :shrug:

No need for the bad guys to break the law. They can get guns legally. It's easier than getting a fishing license in my state.

Felon? No problem. Just buy one out in the parking lot of the gun show. No background check needed.

 

[danarhea]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Good guys don't walk around strutting with their guns in public places. Flakey people do that.

I carry my gun in public, but I carry it concealed. It's actually the smart thing to do. If somebody is going to rob a place, the first targets will be people he sees with guns. If he doesn't see a gun on me, I've got the drop on him if I feel threatened. I leave the bravado and political statements to others.

 

[joG]

Re: Cleveland police union asks for suspension of 'open carry' in wake of Baton Rouge

Seems like a pretty reasonable short term security measure.

I am not sure how that will prevent a sniper from shooting police officers.