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Civilizations Past

PeteEU said:
Well that is debatable to say the least, since the Black Plauge comes from rodents, and unless you call Mongol's for rodents then that is a bit impossible. The trade routes and caravans that brought the Black Plauge to Europe from Asia existed long before the Mongol's conquered the lands where the trade routes were and they continued long after the Mongol empire had disappeared from history.
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This is the one area where he may have a point. We don't know exactly what happened, but several historians point to a siege conducted by the Mongols in Georgia in which diseased bodies were lobbed into the defending city, refugees as well as Italian traders may have brought that or another disease into Europe. There is so much we don't know about the Black Death and other mass killer diseases of the era, we will likely never know for sure...
 
Hmmm... Sichuan during the late Tang and Shu kingdoms would be nice... poetry thrived there during that period

Classical Athens, of course, it wouldn't have been too cool during the Peloponnesian War, but the thought and discourse that occurred then must have amazing...

Songhai during the time of Askia Muhammed... Timbuktu was a center of trade, learning and culture during that time...

There are many others as well...
 
Vikings! They after all discovered the America's!...
 
spud_meister said:
The native Americans discovered it first.
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Okay... they discovered it before Columbus and many thousands of years after Asians came over from Russia-> Alaska ... point is, they discovered it first in modern history.
 
PeteEU said:
Okay... they discovered it before Columbus and many thousands of years after Asians came over from Russia-> Alaska ... point is, they discovered it first in modern history.
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The only precise way to put this is, "they were the first Europeans to reach the Americas". 'Discovery' implies that it had been unknown to man, or lost to humankind, which is false, of course, since there were already plenty of people and civilisations living and developing there.
 
PeteEU said:
Okay... they discovered it before Columbus and many thousands of years after Asians came over from Russia-> Alaska ... point is, they discovered it first in modern history.
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The only precise way to put this is, "they were the first Europeans to reach the Americas". 'Discovery' implies that it had been unknown to man, or lost to humankind, which is false, of course, since there were already plenty of people and civilisations living and developing there.
 
Andalublue said:
I think you'll find that they never doubted it was there in the first place. ;)
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the would not have known until they found it, so there could have been plenty of doubt to whether the direction they were going in would lead to more land or simply stop an the ocean.
 
spud_meister said:
the would not have known until they found it, so there could have been plenty of doubt to whether the direction they were going in would lead to more land or simply stop an the ocean.
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Okay, so let's qualify 'discover' with 'discovered for themselves and for European civilisation'. Baldly using the word 'discover' does imply that something had never been known of before and, as I pointed out, the Native Americans had known they and their lands existed perfectly well. This whole 'discovery of America' idea is a product of European, solpistic, colonialist thinking.
 
PeteEU said:
Okay... they discovered it before Columbus and many thousands of years after Asians came over from Russia-> Alaska ... point is, they discovered it first in modern history.
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10th/11th century is modern history?

The Asians discovered it when they crossed Beringia 20,000 years ago...
 
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