Civil Forfeiture: border adventure

Common Sense 1 said:

The government should never be able to seize property using civil forfeiture program without a court ruling that it is proper.

When law enforcement receives a benefit for the seizure there will be abuses that damage innocent citizens.

Click to expand...

Gaius46 said:

Civil asset forfeiture prior to actually establishing guilt and tying those assets to the actual crime is so far afield from what our justice system is supposed to be about that I really can't find the words to describe the level of disgust I have with the concept, and with my countrymen for allowing this atrocity to even exist.

Oh and while we're at it let's set it up so that the police can actually keep some of the proceeds. Can't think of a better way to turn the police into criminals themselves. The morons who dreamed this scheme up have a special circle in hell waiting for them.

Click to expand...

Mr Person said:

Indeed.

It's also often used as a weapon to shunt the defendant onto the public defense system. In a state that does a half-decent job of funding public defense (ie, MA), it's not a huge issue. But a lot of states have abominable public defender systems. The attorneys in them are only there because they care deeply, but caring doesn't do all that much when you have only the tiniest fraction of the time necessary to handle a given case well.

Our criminal court system is no where near as fair as many like to tell themselves.

Click to expand...

Gaius46 said:

I’ve an acquaintance who was a PD in Nassau County, NY. He basically said his job, as subtly and not-so-subtly given to him by his superiors, was to convince his clients to take plea deals. Innocence or guilt didn’t even factor into the equation.

Click to expand...

Mr Person said:

After two years of stonewalling about its theft of Gerardo Serrano’s 2014 Ford F-250 pickup truck, the government suddenly returned it. It sparkled from having been washed and detailed, bumper to bumper, and it had four new tires and a new battery. The government probably hoped that, mollified by the truck’s sprucing-up, Serrano would let bygones be bygones and go back to Kentucky. This was another mistake by our mistake-prone government.Assisted by litigators from the Institute for Justice (IJ), whose appearance on the West Texas horizon probably panicked the government into pretending to be law-abiding, Serrano wants to make the government less larcenous and more constitutional when it is enriching itself through civil forfeiture.


On Sept. 21, 2015, Serrano drove to the Eagle Pass, Tex., border crossing, intending to try to interest a Mexican cousin in expanding his solar panel installation business in the United States. To have mementos of his trip, he took some pictures of the border with his cellphone camera, which annoyed two U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents, who demanded the password to his phone. Serrano, who is what an American ought to be regarding his rights, prickly, refused to submit to such an unwarranted invasion of his privacy. One agent said he was “sick of hearing about your rights” and “you have no rights here.” So, they searched his truck — this was unusual for a vehicle leaving the country — and one agent said, “We got him!”

Having found five .380-caliber bullets in the truck’s center console — he has a concealed-carry permit but had no weapon with him — they handcuffed him and seized his truck under civil forfeiture, saying it had been used to transport “munitions of war.” The next time someone warns about the potential for domestic abuse of supposed national security measures, do not dismiss him or her as a neurotic libertarian.

[continues]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...9fe3c675a89_story.html?utm_term=.c1cbabf8be50



Yet more fallout from the War on Drugs. We set lax controls for civil forfeiture because drugs are bad mmkay. Predictably, law enforcement of all variety - from local PDs on up - abuse the tool they were given. It is mainly used as a scummy way to increase a station's funding.

Apparently, the guards working this crossing seize about 100 cars a year.

Click to expand...

Mr Person said:

...I'd have to hear his exact words. I'm not saying you're making it up, but that's worrysome.




I mean, I do this work. At no point have I heard anything remotely close to that as some kind of general mandate. Fortunately, MA has a split system of public defenders and court-appointed private attorneys who accept crap rates to do the same cases.

Then again, there are people who should plead guilty and take a deal, because they are stupid criminals who basically convicted themselves by doing something like leaving their ID at the scene or posting on Facebook about what they did.

Click to expand...

Gaius46 said:

Civil asset forfeiture prior to actually establishing guilt and tying those assets to the actual crime is so far afield from what our justice system is supposed to be about that I really can't find the words to describe the level of disgust I have with the concept, and with my countrymen for allowing this atrocity to even exist.

Oh and while we're at it let's set it up so that the police can actually keep some of the proceeds. Can't think of a better way to turn the police into criminals themselves. The morons who dreamed this scheme up have a special circle in hell waiting for them.

Click to expand...

Mr Person said:

Indeed.

It's also often used as a weapon to shunt the defendant onto the public defense system. In a state that does a half-decent job of funding public defense (ie, MA), it's not a huge issue. But a lot of states have abominable public defender systems. The attorneys in them are only there because they care deeply, but caring doesn't do all that much when you have only the tiniest fraction of the time necessary to handle a given case well.

Our criminal court system is no where near as fair as many like to tell themselves.

Click to expand...

Mr Person said:

After two years of stonewalling about its theft of Gerardo Serrano’s 2014 Ford F-250 pickup truck, the government suddenly returned it. It sparkled from having been washed and detailed, bumper to bumper, and it had four new tires and a new battery. The government probably hoped that, mollified by the truck’s sprucing-up, Serrano would let bygones be bygones and go back to Kentucky. This was another mistake by our mistake-prone government.Assisted by litigators from the Institute for Justice (IJ), whose appearance on the West Texas horizon probably panicked the government into pretending to be law-abiding, Serrano wants to make the government less larcenous and more constitutional when it is enriching itself through civil forfeiture.


On Sept. 21, 2015, Serrano drove to the Eagle Pass, Tex., border crossing, intending to try to interest a Mexican cousin in expanding his solar panel installation business in the United States. To have mementos of his trip, he took some pictures of the border with his cellphone camera, which annoyed two U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) agents, who demanded the password to his phone. Serrano, who is what an American ought to be regarding his rights, prickly, refused to submit to such an unwarranted invasion of his privacy. One agent said he was “sick of hearing about your rights” and “you have no rights here.” So, they searched his truck — this was unusual for a vehicle leaving the country — and one agent said, “We got him!”

Having found five .380-caliber bullets in the truck’s center console — he has a concealed-carry permit but had no weapon with him — they handcuffed him and seized his truck under civil forfeiture, saying it had been used to transport “munitions of war.” The next time someone warns about the potential for domestic abuse of supposed national security measures, do not dismiss him or her as a neurotic libertarian.

[continues]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...9fe3c675a89_story.html?utm_term=.c1cbabf8be50



Yet more fallout from the War on Drugs. We set lax controls for civil forfeiture because drugs are bad mmkay. Predictably, law enforcement of all variety - from local PDs on up - abuse the tool they were given. It is mainly used as a scummy way to increase a station's funding.

Apparently, the guards working this crossing seize about 100 cars a year.

Click to expand...