Cindy Sheehan Go Home!!!

[Simon W. Moon]

You see very few democratic politicians jumping on her bandwagon...Just ask yourself why do you think that is so?

Because, most Dems are a part of the Pro-War party.

There are very, very few anti-war politcians on the national stage.

 

[AlbqOwl]

What I have noticed is that the mainstream media is not asking any Democrats whether they support Cindy Sheehan or support the groups supporting her and egging her on. They give the Democrats all the forum they want to say any darn thing they want, but they don't ask any questions that could impact on these folks politically. I heard today that one of the groups supporting her actually sent contributions to the terrorists in Fallujah. Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it?

 

[MSgt]

"I heard today that one of the groups supporting her actually sent contributions to the terrorists in Fallujah. Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it?"

If this is true, then this would be a further definition of what is Anti-American. Whether it be sending funds to the enemy or visiting them (Jane Fonda), they align themselves against their own country and troops.

 

[AlbqOwl]

"I heard today that one of the groups supporting her actually sent contributions to the terrorists in Fallujah. Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it?"

If this is true, then this would be a further definition of what is Anti-American. Whether it be sending funds to the enemy or visiting them (Jane Fonda), they align themselves against their own country and troops.

That's what I thought too. And the media is just lapping up Cindy and playing her to the hilt as are those groups supporting her, almost all with a great deal of dishonesty and misrepresentation about what their goals and objectives are. And the media isn't about to ask the liberal naysayers who are party leaders whether they support what Cindy is doing because they know the vast majority of the American public opposes it. And it prompts follow up about 'do you then, Senator, support these groups who are supporting her.' They know that would provide masterful political ads and sound bites for the GOP to use in the next election.

 

[shuamort]

"Anti-American" would imply that an individual sides with people against America.

Liberal Democrats find no interest in the good things our government does around the globe.

Shouldn't we be more concerned about what our government does locally anyway? I didn't know our constitution made us guardians of the world. Besides, let's talk about France for a moment. LOL.

Like fellow liberalists around the world, they are only interested when they can find scandals.

Same could be said about conservatives and their ilk. What you accuse one side of doing, so is the other.

Too often have we seen insistent attempts to drag the U.S. Military and it's members through the mud.......despite the fact that they do it under the protection it provides them. What gratitude. American military, conduct missions all over the world that many would not know about. Not because it is Secret or "soldier of fortunesque", but because it's not worthy enough of the public's attention. That is, of course, until liberals can unearth something to show discredit on American military and government.

Yawn. I'm sorry, that is SUCH a boring argument. Are you yammering on about pulling Abu Gharab out? Or the abuses at G-bay? If the military doesn't want to get caught in these scandals, here's a frickin' idea.... DON'T COMMIT THEM. Sorry man, you do the action, you take the responsibility. Have a little honor and accept your smacks when they're well deserved.

They're doing a job they've VOLUNTEERED for. There is no draft, no conscription. If you want glory and recognition and cuddles and hugs, maybe you're in the wrong job. I get sick of all of the military folks whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiining and complaining like little ******s every time the nation doesn't cum because you did a mission. Hey, it's great what you do, get a gold star board so you can shut the ***** up about it already though. You signed up, you're getting paid for what you do. Don't wanna do it? Don't sign up. You wanna do it? Great, sign up and then shut up. Quit the martyr crap.

Liberals no more care about civil rights around the world than they do for decency in America.

Would the inverse be true then? That the conservatives care less about civil rights in the US than decency in the World.

They have proven time and again to be history's greatest hypocrits. No matter how many brown or black human beings suffer around the world—starved, ethnically cleansed, raped, tortured, murdered—it doesn’t count unless they can blame America.

Really, when did they blame america? And why are you calling people brown or black.... sounds like we're heading down racism road here folks.

Our American left is truly the most selfish our wold has to offer.

Oh yes, it's the kind and generous conservatives that give so much. Seriously care to back-up your statement there?

The Iraq War was something to rally behind when their safety was at question...but since there was no WMD found, now they are against it.

Really, from what I saw, the liberals were against it before, during, AND after. At least they don't lie to the public saying that there is/was a safety threat when there wasn't one. They don't continue to support a leader who has been proven by the Dowling Street memoes to have known that these were lies. Nice try.

They do not care about any brown people in the Middle East and they are too nearsighted to see the dangers of allowing them to flourish in their misdirected Islamic hate.

Wait, I thought they were FOR civil rights? Your misperceptions are overlapping right now and becoming hypocritical.

If there was a threat of WMD in the Sudan, our left would be all sending our troops to die for their safety, but since it was only 2 million black Christians that were massacred by a fundamental Islamic religious rampage in man's most recent holocaust, they do not care. This isn’t just hypocrisy on the part of the Left. It’s complicity.

It's stupidity. On your part. It's funny how you're blaming the left about all of that but they're not in power. Real deadly funny. Keep it up, though, it's amusing how you're so ripe to blame everyone and everything and remain above the pale.

But one thing is certain amongst our Lib-Dem left...they are loyal to their Party and their hypocrisy is immeasurable. They gave Bosnia barely a care and dismissed our bombing of that country as we incidentally killed civilians that were caught in our military targeting. They gave Somalia barely a care, until some Soldiers were killed by militant Islamists. After that, any blacks suffering from starvation and murder could all go to hell. What is the common factor that made those campaigns ok and Iraq not? President Clinton was a democrat.

Wait, how did leftist Clinton who barely gave Bosnia or Somalia a care actually have anything to do with it. You're making circular arguments and I need to get a towel to wipe up all of the drool come from your rabid rantings here.

However, the liberals counter argument to this is that it is "American" to protest their government. It is "American" to express one's anger towards one's government. It is "American" to protest a war.

Yup. It is.

Unfortunately, what is also "American", is the bickering and whining that causes the troops in the field, who exists for their freedoms to protest, more trouble and turmoil as he fights a war that is clearly understood to the most of us, but is dismissed by the protester.

If poor widdle twoops feelings are so sensitive, maybe the government should shield them from anything negative. Poor widdle twoops. :roll: Dissent is natural.

Do they protest for humanity's sake? No.

Yes. Yes they do. Prove otherwise.

Otherwise they would have had a voice for the Iraqi suffering under Saddam. Do they protest for the Iraqi civilian victims in Iraq? No. Otherwise they would have had a voice for the civilian "victims" in Bosnia and Somalia. They simply protest because this current undertaking is under a Republican sponser and as long as their personal safeties are not at question..nobody else in the world matters.

They did. I wrote many a letter with Amnesty International, an apparently LEFTIST Organisation. But apparently, you wouldn't know about any of that because you like to throw your blanket statements around like hell is freezing over.

You see, history has seen it; evil men and their armies have executed horrible acts against humanity. A pacifist or a liberal would rather talk about how bad things are and look the other way. It's only after America gets involved that the liberal or pacifist points out where America errs. What becomes important is that the liberal gets to point a finger at the “viciousness and evil” of America. Our own left join their ranks and this is where they can be seen as "anti-American".

You sure have no problem talking about "bad things" or "evil people", you just call 'em liberals. It's funny that the freedoms you choose to protect are the same ones you're mocking.

 

[gordontravels]

Look my left wing friend, that is my opinion............It just seemed strange to me that at the height of her protest she would beat feet back to California...Maybe the heat was getting to hot in the kitchen........Maybe not..........If her mother really is sick then I apologize for what I said.......

Now Will you also condemn her over the top anti American statements? Never mind I know you won't........:roll:

Now I see why it took you nearly a week to respond to my post. You don't read what I say. I am a decorated Vietnam Vet that supports our President, troops and the War in Iraq along with the War Against Terrorism anyway they want to play it. I think that is what our military is for and so do the vast majority of them. Your left wing friend? Pompous as you are? Now it's anyone who disagrees with one thing you say and they are your left wing friend? How weak.

My question to you was brought on when you accused Cindy Sheehan of using her mother's stroke to take a break for the benefit of her protest and I told you I thought that was cruel. It was. You want to lable me left wing for that? For your poor attitude and lowly words? Tell me? Who started this thread with the title "Cindy Sheehan Go Home"? Do you know?

I think Cindy Sheehan has every right to protest any way she wants. I have fought and nearly died to see to that very promise. I think what she is doing to her son's memory is disgraceful in the way she is protesting and the "over the top" things she says. She has her agenda and I have mine. I fought in a war that was unpopular and see things in ways she might not. Still, I fought for her to be who she is within the laws of our country and would stand between you and her to guarantee her right to say those disgraceful words.

Your left wing friend? I'll just say - wrong lable sir and not your friend on top of your mistake in labeling. :duel

 

[Hoot]

But one thing is certain amongst our Lib-Dem left...they are loyal to their Party and their hypocrisy is immeasurable. They gave Bosnia barely a care and dismissed our bombing of that country as we incidentally killed civilians that were caught in our military targeting. They gave Somalia barely a care, until some Soldiers were killed by militant Islamists. After that, any blacks suffering from starvation and murder could all go to hell. What is the common factor that made those campaigns ok and Iraq not? President Clinton was a democrat.

C'mon, Sarge...the difference between Bosnia/Somalia and Iraq should be obvious.

In both Bosnia and Somalia we were on peace keeping missions with limited military measures...the first Bush started things in Bosnia with humanitarian aid. In both campaigns we had diplomatic efforts in the international community along with the support of NATO forces.

Iraq was not a peace keeping mission...Bush had no world wide support...we marched into Iraq with the express purpose of overthrowing the existing government. Big difference, right? In Bosnia we merely wanted to force the Serbs and Croatians to the peace table.

 

[MSgt]

They have proven time and again to be history's greatest hypocrits. No matter how many brown or black human beings suffer around the world—starved, ethnically cleansed, raped, tortured, murdered—it doesn’t count unless they can blame America.

"Really, when did they blame america? And why are you calling people brown or black.... sounds like we're heading down racism road here folks."

Because it is how they are seen by our liberal left. They do not matter. If they did, liberals would protest the communism flooding into Vietnam, they would protest the Islamic movement in the Suadan that slaughtered over 2 million blacks, and they would protest the oppressive and abusive treatment the Iraqi people suffered under Saddam. Instead, they choose to whine about American intervention as if all of their sufferings are their problem. All that matter to them are their cries of WMD. The Iraqi suffering didn't matter.




Do they protest for humanity's sake? No.

"Yes. Yes they do. Prove otherwise."

History proves it, you condescending fool. Liberals and Pacifists offer the world nothing. War and the men that would risk it all waging it have shaped our world. History has recorded it for all to see. The aggressions of history would cover the world with Nazism, Communism, and Fundamental Islam.

Through the anti-Semitic hate of the European Nazi, we would see the complete extinction of Jews and the Jewish religion as just a start. Nazism carries with it an air of superiority. Hitler’s Nazism would have seen the complete persecution of all people, races, and their religions because they were less than “Aryan”. The “Culturally inferior” would have all succumbed to the power of the swastika.

Through Communism, we have seen represssive states that dominated every aspect of life. The Communist states often practice censorship. The level of censorship varies widely between different states and historical periods, but it nearly always exists to a greater or lesser extent. This censorship includes the arts, science, and dissent. Large scale human rights violations are very common in Communist states. Most prominent were deaths due to executions, forced labor camps, genocides of certain ethnic minorities, and mass starvations caused by either government mismanagement or deliberately. Lesser violations include religious and ethnic persecutions, sytematic use of torture as part of police procedure, and the complete lack of democracy.

Through Fundamental Islam, we have seen a very similar movement that reflects that of the Communists and surpasses the Nazi movement. The persecution of Jews and the never ending terror levied against Israel is more of the same Euro anti-semetic bigotry practiced over a period of time. In the Sudan we saw over two million Christians slaughtered in man’s latest holocaust mission. All religions aren’t merely seen as inferior, but are seen as the practice of “infidels”. The spread of oppression through religious restrictions is deadly to anyone that practices or wishes to practice a freer life style. The censorship of the arts, sciences, and dissent is not merely a crime against the state, but a crime against “God”.

To face the aggressions of such tyrannies and to fight the cruel government’s that these ideologies are practiced and glorified, brave men must take up arms. There is such a thing as “good and evil.” Dismissing such truths by remarking that “good and evil” is merely a person’s perception of right and wrong is irresponsible at best. The armies of darkness can only be defeated by the conviction of better men that hold everyone’s freedoms high above any dictator’s or religious zealot’s sense of societal rule. Where is the liberal or pascifist in this? What do they really offer? Do we need a group of “holier than thou” individuals telling us that war is bad and to point out every civilian killed through a missile strike or that was caught up in a fire fight? After we all admit the obvious, is it enough to hold back man’s cruelest militaries from marching across our lands? No. Death and destruction is very necessary to combat these evils. It will always be better for the few to die now than the many to suffer later. Pascifists and liberals neither are the aggressor nor are they a part of the defense of good. They merely take up space, voice the obvious, and get in the way through their protests.

 

[MSgt]

C'mon, Sarge...the difference between Bosnia/Somalia and Iraq should be obvious.

In both Bosnia and Somalia we were on peace keeping missions with limited military measures...the first Bush started things in Bosnia with humanitarian aid. In both campaigns we had diplomatic efforts in the international community along with the support of NATO forces.

Iraq was not a peace keeping mission...Bush had no world wide support...we marched into Iraq with the express purpose of overthrowing the existing government. Big difference, right? In Bosnia we merely wanted to force the Serbs and Croatians to the peace table.

We don't need the world to act in our best interests. "Forcing" peace is all we have ever done. The same applies to Iraq. The entire Middle East needs to be overthrown and stripped of Sunni control.

 

[MSgt]

"They're doing a job they've VOLUNTEERED for. There is no draft, no conscription. If you want glory and recognition and cuddles and hugs, maybe you're in the wrong job. I get sick of all of the military folks whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiining and complaining like little ******s every time the nation doesn't cum because you did a mission. Hey, it's great what you do, get a gold star board so you can shut the ***** up about it already though. You signed up, you're getting paid for what you do. Don't wanna do it? Don't sign up. You wanna do it? Great, sign up and then shut up. Quit the martyr crap."

This was absolutely pathetic. None of us care for any of your little superficial pats on the backs or your bumper stickers that come out when the media reports for you to do so. The truth is you do not care for the troops in any regard until it is fashionable to do so. Otherwise, you would be aware of all the great things that your military does around the globe instead of highlighting anything that would bring discredit. What we want is for your kind to mind your own business and until you wear the uniform - your business is to shut up about things you do not understand.

"You sure have no problem talking about "bad things" or "evil people", you just call 'em liberals. It's funny that the freedoms you choose to protect are the same ones you're mocking."

There is a difference in exercising one's freedoms and abusing them. Liberals stand by and do nothing and then criticize the efforts of a better man.

 

[MSgt]

Otherwise they would have had a voice for the Iraqi suffering under Saddam. Do they protest for the Iraqi civilian victims in Iraq? No. Otherwise they would have had a voice for the civilian "victims" in Bosnia and Somalia. They simply protest because this current undertaking is under a Republican sponser and as long as their personal safeties are not at question..nobody else in the world matters.

"They did. I wrote many a letter with Amnesty International, an apparently LEFTIST Organisation. But apparently, you wouldn't know about any of that because you like to throw your blanket statements around like hell is freezing over."

Well, I guess you did your part. Much like the Europeans who give their humanitarian tithing to the corrupt governments of Africa, you can wash your hands of it. The Sudanese holocaust of two million Christians occurred throughout the 90's. It is the U.N.'s job to identify and take action where it is required. I guess the half ass job in Somalia was good enough. The Sudan was completely ignored. Bosnia was fought through air power and the droppings of bombs which killed an untold number of civilians. Where were the liberal masses for America's "victims" then? No....liberals, and their quest to fool the world into believing that they stand for humanity, have proven themselves to be civilization's olympic hypocrits. It's recorded in history. My statements are general, because the majority of leftists liberals are defined accurately.

 

[wrath]

C'mon, Sarge...the difference between Bosnia/Somalia and Iraq should be obvious.

In both Bosnia and Somalia we were on peace keeping missions with limited military measures...the first Bush started things in Bosnia with humanitarian aid. In both campaigns we had diplomatic efforts in the international community along with the support of NATO forces.

Iraq was not a peace keeping mission...Bush had no world wide support...we marched into Iraq with the express purpose of overthrowing the existing government. Big difference, right? In Bosnia we merely wanted to force the Serbs and Croatians to the peace table.

I'm sorry, was I absent the day we decided to completely dismiss 12 years of events leading up to the Iraq war? Revisionist history is one thing but omissionist history?

Saddam agreed to a cease fire in 1991 that included some prerequisites. Anyone here have any memory of that? As his subsequent actions/inactions plainly show, he never intended to honor any of those conditions.

- UN resolutions were ignored of circumvented
- No fly zone was constantly challenged
- incomplete/misleading weapons inventories
- limited inspections
- Covert weapons purchases continued
- Oil for food -- well nuff said here!

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Japan or Germany took the same "cat and mouse" route after their defeat in WWII? I'm guessing they would have had far less than 12 years to comply and amnesia would not have been an acceptable excuse.

 

[gordontravels]

I'm sorry, was I absent the day we decided to completely dismiss 12 years of events leading up to the Iraq war? Revisionist history is one thing but omissionist history?

Saddam agreed to a cease fire in 1991 that included some prerequisites. Anyone here have any memory of that? As his subsequent actions/inactions plainly show, he never intended to honor any of those conditions.

- UN resolutions were ignored of circumvented
- No fly zone was constantly challenged
- incomplete/misleading weapons inventories
- limited inspections
- Covert weapons purchases continued
- Oil for food -- well nuff said here!

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Japan or Germany took the same "cat and mouse" route after their defeat in WWII? I'm guessing they would have had far less than 12 years to comply and amnesia would not have been an acceptable excuse.

Good Post. Won't make a difference to some but it is all true. :duel

 

[MSgt]

I'm sorry, was I absent the day we decided to completely dismiss 12 years of events leading up to the Iraq war? Revisionist history is one thing but omissionist history?

Saddam agreed to a cease fire in 1991 that included some prerequisites. Anyone here have any memory of that? As his subsequent actions/inactions plainly show, he never intended to honor any of those conditions.

- UN resolutions were ignored of circumvented
- No fly zone was constantly challenged
- incomplete/misleading weapons inventories
- limited inspections
- Covert weapons purchases continued
- Oil for food -- well nuff said here!

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Japan or Germany took the same "cat and mouse" route after their defeat in WWII? I'm guessing they would have had far less than 12 years to comply and amnesia would not have been an acceptable excuse.

Great post, but I would wager that it will go "unnoticed" by the liberal community in here, because it gives too much credibility to our legal invasion. The liberal world has already decided to ignore such fractures.

I have plenty of memory on this. If this had happened back during the era of WWII, we would have acted without the mass wailings of our liberal masses. Because our current decreptid and weak liberal masses do not reflect the liberals of the past. They have digressed and strayed into the realm of selfish immorality.

 

[ludahai]

I'll only address your #2:

You also know there is an element on the right that is "Anti-American" don't you?

The difference is that the anti-American left really does hate America. You may claim that there is an anti-American right which in your view goes against what America stands for, but they don't hate America. A small, but vocal portion of the left really does HATE America!

 

[MSgt]

Great point

 

[ludahai]

For those who don't think there is an anti-American left, check out Oneida Meranto at the Metropolitan State College in Denver and Ward Churchill in this thread - http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=2951.

Also check out Prof. Robert Jensen at the University of Texas.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1209-26.htm
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/freelance/freelance.htm
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~rjensen/home.htm

 

[gordontravels]

The difference is that the anti-American left really does hate America. You may claim that there is an anti-American right which in your view goes against what America stands for, but they don't hate America. A small, but vocal portion of the left really does HATE America!

I didn't say anything about hate. It is easy to see from some of the posters here though on both sides that hate is close. My point is that those from the left or right that want to suppress are anti-American. I think that is evident. We have a constitution and a bill of rights. I say left or right, let's stick to them.

Are people right? Sure. Are people wrong. Sure. Take your side and take your pick. I tend to be more conservative but I've learned how over my life. I've also served my country. I have opinions and sometimes serve or support one side or the other but then.... I have that right no matter who or from what side they are on disagree or agree with me. They, you, sent me to fight in a war to protect those rights and I did it for me too. :duel

 

[Hoot]

I'm sorry, was I absent the day we decided to completely dismiss 12 years of events leading up to the Iraq war? Revisionist history is one thing but omissionist history?

Saddam agreed to a cease fire in 1991 that included some prerequisites. Anyone here have any memory of that? As his subsequent actions/inactions plainly show, he never intended to honor any of those conditions.

- UN resolutions were ignored of circumvented
- No fly zone was constantly challenged
- incomplete/misleading weapons inventories
- limited inspections
- Covert weapons purchases continued
- Oil for food -- well nuff said here!

I wonder what the reaction would have been if Japan or Germany took the same "cat and mouse" route after their defeat in WWII? I'm guessing they would have had far less than 12 years to comply and amnesia would not have been an acceptable excuse.

The main difference that those of you on the right will never comprehend...

There are other ways to take out evil dictators than marching our young sons and daughters into downtown Baghdad.

 

[gordontravels]

The main difference that those of you on the right will never comprehend...

There are other ways to take out evil dictators than marching our young sons and daughters into downtown Baghdad.

Well, considering that 3 Presidents and the U.N. couldn't get Saddam to cooperate, what would you have done? Oh and don't worry, I am not solidly on the right and I can comprehend. Puts me right there or I get left up there with you right? Please, enlighten me and others here. :duel

 

[Hoot]

Well, considering that 3 Presidents and the U.N. couldn't get Saddam to cooperate, what would you have done? Oh and don't worry, I am not solidly on the right and I can comprehend. Puts me right there or I get left up there with you right? Please, enlighten me and others here. :duel

Obviously those 12 years of sanctions did some good, didn't they? Saddam didn't have anything for us to worry about. Bush was told by our own NIE and the International Atomic Energy Agency that there was nothing in Iraq, yet Bush pulls the inspectors out and begins the bombing...despite having solid evidence that Saddam had nothing to endanger the U.S.

What would you do if you were President and you had intelligence that Saddam had wmd, and solid eye witness testimony that Saddam had nothing.

Take us to war? Or let the inspectors finish their job when they were only requesting 2-3 more months of searches in Iraq? What's 2-3 more months after 12 years?

 

[ludahai]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?p=70555#post70555

Interesting how the liberals let this Sheehan thread die. Probably got sick of nefarious plot getting schooled and decided to cut their losses by sticking to one of the numerous other threads on this topic.

 

[Navy Pride]

Because, most Dems are a part of the Pro-War party.

There are very, very few anti-war politcians on the national stage.

I think the dems put their finger in the air and see which way the wind is blowing to decide which way they will go.........

I guess my question to Sheehan is why isn;t she protest Hillary....She is supposedly pro war..........

 

[ludahai]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45938

Cindy Sheehan calls the insurgents in Iraq "freedom fighters" and it hasn't been mentioned in the mainstream press? If true, this definately puts her among the extremists.

TRUTH: THey are not freedom fighters. They want Iraqis to live under an Islamic state where women would be repressed and ethnic minorities would lose their valuable rights and freedoms. They are fighting AGAINST freedom, not for freedom.

Backtracking on statements regarding your first meeting with President Bush, your husband filing for divorce, and now calling the insurgents "freedom fighters." You are losing your sanity Cindy. The longer you hang out with these nutcases, the more you are sounding exactly like them.

Cindy, go back home. It sounds like you have been neglecting your family for this.

 

[Navy Pride]

"I heard today that one of the groups supporting her actually sent contributions to the terrorists in Fallujah. Makes you proud to be an American doesn't it?"

If this is true, then this would be a further definition of what is Anti-American. Whether it be sending funds to the enemy or visiting them (Jane Fonda), they align themselves against their own country and troops.

It would not be the first time, Kerry was a hero to the North Vietnamese..