• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

CIA finds Saudi crown prince sent 11+ messages to adviser who oversaw Khashoggi killing around

JacksinPA

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
21,402
Reaction score
12,200
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.
 

Praxas

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 10, 2016
Messages
22,399
Reaction score
11,856
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.

Trump thinks with his gut and not evidence which just proves he is full of ****.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,444
Reaction score
29,791
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.

"according to a highly classified CIA assessment." - WSJ

I think it's high time laws are changed to convict EVERYONE...even the press...when they leak highly classified government documents.
 

Barnacle

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
10,720
Reaction score
5,260
Location
Middle Tennessee
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.


WSJ has "obtained" a classified CIA report and gives us only tidbits?!?

Come on, WSJ, print the whole classified CIA report so we can see in what context those messages were and the rest of the information.
 

Barnacle

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
10,720
Reaction score
5,260
Location
Middle Tennessee
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
"according to a highly classified CIA assessment." - WSJ

I think it's high time laws are changed to convict EVERYONE...even the press...when they leak highly classified government documents.


I'm just glad that Graham can now continue his work with the help of the WSJ ... /s.


"Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Wednesday threatened to withhold any “key vote” until the CIA briefs the Senate on its assessment of whether Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the killing of U.S.-based journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

“Anything that you need me for to get out of town, I ain’t doing it until we hear from the CIA,” Graham told reporters after a briefing from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Defense Secretary James Mattis on U.S.-Saudi relations. ..."



No need for CIA briefing, Miss Lindsey - just contact the WSJ if you have any questions. (grin)
 

Utility Man

Sidewalk Inspector
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Messages
6,818
Reaction score
7,836
Location
US
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
tumblr_p1nla88DZ81skfdzbo1_1280.jpg


:elephantf:usflag2:

tumblr_p1yedrMZ651qinrtgo1_500.jpg
 

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Monthly Donator
Joined
Apr 6, 2017
Messages
37,535
Reaction score
24,016
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Excon

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2012
Messages
39,850
Reaction score
8,963
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Independent
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.
No information has been made public that proves your assertion.
 

Evilroddy

Pragmatic, pugilistic, prancing, porcine politico.
DP Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
7,944
Reaction score
5,295
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
"according to a highly classified CIA assessment." - WSJ

I think it's high time laws are changed to convict EVERYONE...even the press...when they leak highly classified government documents.

Mycroft:

Or the US Government could stop classifying most political information needed by the voters to weigh the effectiveness of their own government in international affairs and domestic policy at election time. Classification is out of control in America and many other Western democracies. It is being used to cover up mistakes and to bury impolitic information rather than to protect state security from real intelligence or military threats.

Criminalising a "free press" and trashing the First Amendment of the US Constitution in order to protect the criminal behaviour of foreign potentates and their henchmen? What could be more American than that in the topsy-turvy world of President Trump's new order in America. The press is not disloyal to America but it looks more and more like parts of the US Government are not working in America's best interests but rather in the best interests of the House of Saud, and the maniacal dauphin of that wretched and corrupt kingdom.

Better to out the Saudis for the state-spider in the web of the Middle East which they are than to punish honest and hard working reporters and editors for trying to keep the US citizenry as an informed electorate capable (if they pay attention) of judging the performance of their own government and elected representatives. Of course if one disdains the trappings of democracy lie a free press, as some Americans do, then by all means tear up the US Constitution; but then be prepared for a new revolt/revolution.

Authoritarianism and fascism are very attractive ideologies to those who put The Rule of Men above The Rule of Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,444
Reaction score
29,791
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Mycroft:

Or the US Government could stop classifying most political information needed by the voters to weigh the effectiveness of their own government in international affairs and domestic policy at election time. Classification is out of control in America and many other Western democracies. It is being used to cover up mistakes and to bury impolitic information rather than to protect state security from real intelligence or military threats.

Criminalising a "free press" and trashing the First Amendment of the US Constitution in order to protect the criminal behaviour of foreign potentates and their henchmen? What could be more American than that in the topsy-turvy world of President Trump's new order in America. The press is not disloyal to America but it looks more and more like parts of the US Government are not working in America's best interests but rather in the best interests of the House of Saud, and the maniacal dauphin of that wretched and corrupt kingdom.

Better to out the Saudis for the state-spider in the web of the Middle East which they are than to punish honest and hard working reporters and editors for trying to keep the US citizenry as an informed electorate capable (if they pay attention) of judging the performance of their own government and elected representatives. Of course if one disdains the trappings of democracy lie a free press, as some Americans do, then by all means tear up the US Constitution; but then be prepared for a new revolt/revolution.

Authoritarianism and fascism are very attractive ideologies to those who put The Rule of Men above The Rule of Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

That won't solve the problem of the press obtaining and releasing classified information...unless you contend that there should be NO information being classified.

In other words, even if we apply your nebulous standard of not classifying "most political information needed by the voters to weigh the effectiveness of their own government in international affairs and domestic policy at election time", there will be information that MUST be classified. Without a change in laws, nothing is stopping the press from obtaining and releasing THAT information.
 

Evilroddy

Pragmatic, pugilistic, prancing, porcine politico.
DP Veteran
Joined
May 30, 2017
Messages
7,944
Reaction score
5,295
Location
Canada
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
That won't solve the problem of the press obtaining and releasing classified information...unless you contend that there should be NO information being classified.

In other words, even if we apply your nebulous standard of not classifying "most political information needed by the voters to weigh the effectiveness of their own government in international affairs and domestic policy at election time", there will be information that MUST be classified. Without a change in laws, nothing is stopping the press from obtaining and releasing THAT information.

Mycroft:

The free press is not branch of the government nor is an international press subject to the laws of any one state's judiciary. It is the government's responsibility to keep its own secrets and it is the press's responsibility to expose government secrets which are in the public interest to be exposed. They work at cross purposes and that is a healthy and dynamic equilibrium. In a democracy a free press is part of the political immune system of the whole society which is supposed to keep the cancer of corruption from completely overtaking the apparatus of governance. The free press is as important to a democracy as are elections and as is the government itself.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
74,444
Reaction score
29,791
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Mycroft:

The free press is not branch of the government nor is an international press subject to the laws of any one state's judiciary. It is the government's responsibility to keep its own secrets and it is the press's responsibility to expose government secrets which are in the public interest to be exposed. They work at cross purposes and that is a healthy and dynamic equilibrium. In a democracy a free press is part of the political immune system of the whole society which is supposed to keep the cancer of corruption from completely overtaking the apparatus of governance. The free press is as important to a democracy as are elections and as is the government itself.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

Correct me if I'm wrong...but the WSJ is an American news organization. They are subject to US law.

I agree it's the government's responsibility to keep its own secrets. But an American citizen will be subject to criminal proceedings if they receive and disseminate highly classified information without authorization. Why should the press get a pass?
 

Manc Skipper

Wrinkly member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
34,649
Reaction score
23,473
Location
Southern England
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Pompeo says there is no evidence to implicate MBS, so MBS obviously must have been texting the murderer 11 times during the proceedings to find out where he was, because he didn't know. anything about it.
 

Trippy Trekker

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
8,308
Reaction score
2,947
Location
Tampa Bay area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Watching the Crown Prince and Putin interact, listening to Chump, Pompeo, MadDog and Bolton try to spin plausible deniability into who ordered Khashoggi murdered.... puts me on High Alert!

Uh oh... power hungry people on the move.... Danger Danger Danger.... do not trust them!

As an American teenager in the early 1970s who had a Draft Lottery #, I didn't trust my government.

When Congress approved an invasion of Iraq to search for WMDs, I didn't trust my government. The U.N. condemned the USA for the invasion. We sallied forth anyway with a Coalition of the Willing. We never found any WMDs.

Please advise your family and friends to use due diligence before trusting their government!

Chump has a rocky road ahead this coming year! I expect more erratic behavior from him and his team of sycophants.
 

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.

I'm not trying to defend the Crown Prince. i don't know him and don't care about him in any way. The constant rush to judgement is a little disturbing to me in all of these things, though.

If this was your brother, would these messages be enough to convict him?

On any other day, how many messages did the Crown Prince send to this guy?

If I'm the journalist, there is nothing that could have convinced me to enter this lion's den.
 
Last edited:

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Trump thinks with his gut and not evidence which just proves he is full of ****.

What do you suggest? Nuclear strike? Termination of all diplomatic relations?

What your recommended move?
 

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Mycroft:

Or the US Government could stop classifying most political information needed by the voters to weigh the effectiveness of their own government in international affairs and domestic policy at election time. Classification is out of control in America and many other Western democracies. It is being used to cover up mistakes and to bury impolitic information rather than to protect state security from real intelligence or military threats.

Criminalising a "free press" and trashing the First Amendment of the US Constitution in order to protect the criminal behaviour of foreign potentates and their henchmen? What could be more American than that in the topsy-turvy world of President Trump's new order in America. The press is not disloyal to America but it looks more and more like parts of the US Government are not working in America's best interests but rather in the best interests of the House of Saud, and the maniacal dauphin of that wretched and corrupt kingdom.

Better to out the Saudis for the state-spider in the web of the Middle East which they are than to punish honest and hard working reporters and editors for trying to keep the US citizenry as an informed electorate capable (if they pay attention) of judging the performance of their own government and elected representatives. Of course if one disdains the trappings of democracy lie a free press, as some Americans do, then by all means tear up the US Constitution; but then be prepared for a new revolt/revolution.

Authoritarianism and fascism are very attractive ideologies to those who put The Rule of Men above The Rule of Law.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Mycroft:

The free press is not branch of the government nor is an international press subject to the laws of any one state's judiciary. It is the government's responsibility to keep its own secrets and it is the press's responsibility to expose government secrets which are in the public interest to be exposed. They work at cross purposes and that is a healthy and dynamic equilibrium. In a democracy a free press is part of the political immune system of the whole society which is supposed to keep the cancer of corruption from completely overtaking the apparatus of governance. The free press is as important to a democracy as are elections and as is the government itself.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

It is the press's responsibility to report the news as completely and accurately as possible with no bias or favoritism.

Further, if the press decides to discuss their own thoughts on any topic, it is their responsibility to properly and accurately label their commentary as editorial or just plain BS.

Where you divined your idea of their responsibility is beyond me.
 
Last edited:

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Watching the Crown Prince and Putin interact, listening to Chump, Pompeo, MadDog and Bolton try to spin plausible deniability into who ordered Khashoggi murdered.... puts me on High Alert!

Uh oh... power hungry people on the move.... Danger Danger Danger.... do not trust them!

As an American teenager in the early 1970s who had a Draft Lottery #, I didn't trust my government.

When Congress approved an invasion of Iraq to search for WMDs, I didn't trust my government. The U.N. condemned the USA for the invasion. We sallied forth anyway with a Coalition of the Willing. We never found any WMDs.

Please advise your family and friends to use due diligence before trusting their government!

Chump has a rocky road ahead this coming year! I expect more erratic behavior from him and his team of sycophants.

You distrust your government when it proceeds on less than credible information.

You condemn Trump for demanding credible information before taking action.

What is it that you're looking for?
 

Trippy Trekker

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
8,308
Reaction score
2,947
Location
Tampa Bay area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
You distrust your government when it proceeds on less than credible information.

You condemn Trump for demanding credible information before taking action.

What is it that you're looking for?

Serenity.... assisting in the care and welfare of loved ones... self-preservation.... Grace, Honor, Humor, Love.

I condemn Chump for good cause: lying, obstruction and incompetence. Maybe Chump Slurpers believe Chump demands credible information; I know better!
 

code1211

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
40,580
Reaction score
8,071
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
Serenity.... assisting in the care and welfare of loved ones... self-preservation.... Grace, Honor, Humor, Love.

I condemn Chump for good cause: lying, obstruction and incompetence. Maybe Chump Slurpers believe Chump demands credible information; I know better!

By what method do you acquire your certitude?

What do any of those qualities have to do with the decisions dictating intervention or restraint into the affairs of other sovereign states?
 

marke

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
34,752
Reaction score
3,960
Location
north carolina
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
https://thehill.com/policy/internat...cia-finds-saudi-crown-prince-sent-at-least-11

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman sent at least 11 messages to his adviser, who oversaw the effort to kill Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi, around the time of Khashoggi's killing, according to a classified CIA report obtained by The Wall Street Journal.

According to the excerpts of the assessment reported by the Journal, the crown prince told associates in August 2017 "we could possibly lure [Khashoggi] outside Saudi Arabia and make arrangements," if the crown prince could not convince the dissident Saudi journalist, who was living in Virginia, to return to Saudi Arabia.
==================================
MBS has blood on his hands but that's OK with Trump. Business is business.

Saudi Arabian leaders are barbarians. They would not be leaders of the barbarian people in Saudi Arabia if they were not barbarians themselves. There is evidence the Saudi prince had the journalist murdered. So what? Should Trump bomb the pants off them in retaliation? No. Should he slap sanctions on them? Maybe, but how does that make sense in comparison with Obama sending Iran $1.7 billion in cash given Iran's open hatred for America and historic track record of supplying arms to fighting enemies of American soldiers in other Muslim nations around the world?
 

Trippy Trekker

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 26, 2016
Messages
8,308
Reaction score
2,947
Location
Tampa Bay area
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
By what method do you acquire your certitude?

What do any of those qualities have to do with the decisions dictating intervention or restraint into the affairs of other sovereign states?

For Love of a Don Quixote attitude, life experience, respect for gravity, a willingness to "step off" and face the consequences... and sometimes a willingness to bet my life on my certitude.

I find myself curious that deep down you do not believe the Crown Prince ordered Khashoggi killed. Do you think OJ committed murder? Do you think Casey Anthony committed murder?

If you don't think the Crown Prince ordered the hit, OJ murdered someone and Casey killed her toddler daughter, then I have great skepticism about your judgment abilities. John Gacy would have loved to have that kind of gullible person on his jury!
 
Top Bottom