Christmas is Pagan--Not Birth of Christ. (1 Viewer)

[Navy Seal Patriot]

Christmas and the Pagan Connecton.

also on the bottom page of the link above you will find other links that get very detailed that Xmas isn't the birth of Christ and the participation of it and worship of it is actually pagan and worship to other gods. So much for those Churches that just say they follow the Bible. I'm sure much of you don't or won't care though; not concerned on what the Bible has to say.

 

[faithful_servant]

Christmas isn't a Biblical holiday at all. It's a traditional holiday where we remember the birth of the Messiah. Yes, the Roman Catholic Church intentionally chose the winter solstice holiday for Christmas as a way to minimize the effect of the pagan holidays, but it's still CHRISTmas almost everywhere.

 

[WI Crippler]

You know, the cult I went to as a child did not allow us to celebrate christmas (or halloween), saying it was a pagan holiday for much the same reason you are. Now that its defunct, and I am married it pisses my wife off to no end that I really don't give a **** about Xmas, because I didn't grow up with it. I personally don't have a problem with Xmas, because I get a day off of work, but I hate having to buy Xmas presents for everybody I have ever accidentally bumped into in my life, as if I care about half the people that I have to buy gifts for.

Anyway, I don't think anybody has claimed that Christ was actually born exactly on Dec. 25th, I think its just a day they picked to celebrate his supposed birth ( if you believe in christ ). thats fine by me, if anyone actually believes it really happened exactly on that day, then they aren't really thinking.

 

[jfuh]

You know, the cult I went to as a child did not allow us to celebrate christmas (or halloween), saying it was a pagan holiday for much the same reason you are. Now that its defunct, and I am married it pisses my wife off to no end that I really don't give a **** about Xmas, because I didn't grow up with it. I personally don't have a problem with Xmas, because I get a day off of work, but I hate having to buy Xmas presents for everybody I have ever accidentally bumped into in my life, as if I care about half the people that I have to buy gifts for.

Anyway, I don't think anybody has claimed that Christ was actually born exactly on Dec. 25th, I think its just a day they picked to celebrate his supposed birth ( if you believe in christ ). thats fine by me, if anyone actually believes it really happened exactly on that day, then they aren't really thinking.

Jehova's witness?
I think the attitude you have is smack on, who really gives a **** about it other than "I get a day off"?
If anyone is so uptight that they are offended by someone saying merry christmas or happy holidays, go **** yourself.
Pathetic "war" created by bill orielly and their ridiculous gang of nutheads over at fox.

 

[ngdawg]

That time again already, eh? This is hardly news...it's been discussed, linked, etc., along with the fact that Easter is also pagan and later, Jewish, in its roots.
But, you know those silly Christians, it's all "me, me, me"....:mrgreen:

 

[jfuh]

That time again already, eh? This is hardly news...it's been discussed, linked, etc., along with the fact that Easter is also pagan and later, Jewish, in its roots.
But, you know those silly Christians, it's all "me, me, me"....:mrgreen:

Because the bible says so.:mrgreen:

 

[WI Crippler]

Jehova's witness?
I think the attitude you have is smack on, who really gives a **** about it other than "I get a day off"?
If anyone is so uptight that they are offended by someone saying merry christmas or happy holidays, go **** yourself.
Pathetic "war" created by bill orielly and their ridiculous gang of nutheads over at fox.

Well we weren't jehovahs Witness since JWs aren't defunct, as an organization( I should have stated that earlier)

the cult I belonged to was called The Worldwide Church of God. Founded by Herbert H.W. Armstrong. It was a strange mix of Judaism, Seventh Day Adventist, JWs and a little of christianity. We celebrated some off the wall "holidays" including one where you had to fast for an entire day. No food or water. Which is fine as an adult, your body can go without for a day rather easily, but for us when we were kids it sucked something horrible. I remember 2 year olds not being allowed to eat or drink. What bullshit, huh??

I don't have the time to go into all the **** we had to put up with just being in the church.

 

[Southern Belle]

Why do non-Christians bring that up every year? It's not like we don't KNOW that. But it's just how things are, Jesus's birthday = Christmas = December 25th. It's not the exact day but that's the day it's celebrated on. Nobody's saying the Pagans can't have the Winter Solstice. They always say that, I dunno why, to make us feel guilty or something?

 

[1069]

Why do non-Christians bring that up every year? It's not like we don't KNOW that. But it's just how things are, Jesus's birthday = Christmas = December 25th. It's not the exact day but that's the day it's celebrated on. Nobody's saying the Pagans can't have the Winter Solstice. They always say that, I dunno why, to make us feel guilty or something?

Ooh, my favorite subject: the poor persecuted Xtian majority.
Yawn.

 

[Southern Belle]

Ooh, my favorite subject: the poor persecuted Xtian majority.
Yawn.

I've thought about it and we aren't actually persicuted too bad, but I still wonder why they always post that on forums, every single year. Oh well...^^

 

[Mr.Clover]

No Christmas for you

 

[Rev.]

the cult I belonged to was called The Worldwide Church of God. Founded by Herbert H.W. Armstrong. It was a strange mix of Judaism, Seventh Day Adventist, JWs and a little of christianity. We celebrated some off the wall "holidays" including one where you had to fast for an entire day. No food or water. Which is fine as an adult, your body can go without for a day rather easily, but for us when we were kids it sucked something horrible. I remember 2 year olds not being allowed to eat or drink. What bullshit, huh??

Hey! I know about them!! It's actually NOT defunct really...

Armstrong's son took over the church, and then apparently read the bible one day and realized the practices were WAAAAAY off. So, WCOG became orthodox Christian...the only cult on record to actually do so, and now it is recognized by Christians as really Christian. BUT, the rest of the Board of Directors got mad, and there was a legal fight and a church split...

So there is a "Fundamentalist" WCOG which holds to the old teachings of Armstrong (and is about 10% of the original membership) and the other WCOG, who now attend church on Sundays, celebrate Christmas etc.

Not that you care...but I'm always excited to have actually heard of something :2razz:

 

[Rev.]

Anyway, I don't think anybody has claimed that Christ was actually born exactly on Dec. 25th, I think its just a day they picked to celebrate his supposed birth ( if you believe in christ ). thats fine by me, if anyone actually believes it really happened exactly on that day, then they aren't really thinking.

Actually, I think the RC church declared Dec 25th Jesus' birthday. And April 1is the day Adam and Eve were created. August 16th is the day Mary ascended into heaven. They have dates for everything.

 

[GarzaUK]

Also the Christmas tree is based on a Germanic Pagan ritual. Also Santa Claus is a Coca Cola promotion. Don't worry kids he is still real!!

Also I found it funny that Christainity has it's sabbath day on the day the Pagans worshipped the Sun, hence Sunday. The early christains had their sabbath on Saturday. Christainity is tied to paganism, especially Roman paganism.

 

[WI Crippler]

Hey! I know about them!! It's actually NOT defunct really...

Armstrong's son took over the church, and then apparently read the bible one day and realized the practices were WAAAAAY off. So, WCOG became orthodox Christian...the only cult on record to actually do so, and now it is recognized by Christians as really Christian. BUT, the rest of the Board of Directors got mad, and there was a legal fight and a church split...

So there is a "Fundamentalist" WCOG which holds to the old teachings of Armstrong (and is about 10% of the original membership) and the other WCOG, who now attend church on Sundays, celebrate Christmas etc.

Not that you care...but I'm always excited to have actually heard of something :2razz:

Actually after Armstrongs passing, a man named Joeseph Tcatch (sp??) took over, and continued on in the same vein for a while. Then he became terminally ill, and I am not sure if he had a vision or what, but he started dissolving all the rules that were adhered to in regards to the eating certain foods, celebration of holidays and such. When he died it was his son that took over and from there it quickly faded out. I remember going to a church 500 people strong in a middle school auditorium, and 2 years later there were about 20 people left. It may have changed and held on in some areas, but as for what it was at the height of its popularity, that part is dead. Except for a very small number of hold outs.
I am very glad it dissolved, because of our rules we had to follow I had a very hard time socializing with kids in my school, could not participate in alot of activities, and was always that weird kid that no one really knew. I can't imagine doing to my kids what my parents put me through growing up. I would like to think that if it wasn't dissolved I would have left, but who knows I could have become so brainwashed by it I may have stayed. Looking back it was very, very cultish and strange with some of the things they would come up with.

 

[Navy Seal Patriot]

the cult I belonged to was called The Worldwide Church of God. Founded by Herbert H.W. Armstrong.

WI Crippler, I have relatives and vacation-hunt in ne Minnesota; on a lake I believe called Pelican Lake? in Orr, MN had some summer youth camp called YOU camp I believe was of the sect you described? I believe Armstrong actually had the small towns airport financed by his own money so he could fly his lear jet in and out.

Anyway this very small town loved this YOU camp as it provided many thousands of dollars of money in the Summertime--don't know if that YOU camp is still present. I recall a rumor that Karem Abdul Jabar was teaching BB or some old time NBA laker at that camp. Ring any bells? Small World.:smile:

 

[WI Crippler]

WI Crippler, I have relatives and vacation-hunt in ne Minnesota; on a lake I believe called Pelican Lake? in Orr, MN had some summer youth camp called YOU camp I believe was of the sect you described? I believe Armstrong actually had the small towns airport financed by his own money so he could fly his lear jet in and out.

Anyway this very small town loved this YOU camp as it provided many thousands of dollars of money in the Summertime--don't know if that YOU camp is still present. I recall a rumor that Karem Abdul Jabar was teaching BB or some old time NBA laker at that camp. Ring any bells? Small World.:smile:

Yes Youth Oppurtunities United I believed is what it was called. It was a 13-18 year old organization within the church, and as my family was poor, I could not afford to go to the summer camps ( which cost a bit of money ). So although I was in the YOU I did not attend those functions, and they also had some kind of jacket they wore which was similar to a letter jacket. I never had one of those either, and to be honest I never wanted one for some reason.
But the summer camps were a big deal for those who did go, and I am not sure of the lake name but I think you were right. Armstrong had alot of small airports financed ( We can see where all our tithe money went ).
I think the town that misses our organization the most is the Wisconsin Dells. Every year we celebrated some old holiday called the Feast of Tabernacles, which was a week long holiday. They had sites set up all over the world, and literally 10s of thousands of people would show up at certain "popular"ones, while several thousands would attend others. Well WI Dells was one of the largest gatherings in the world with close to 12,000 people a year showing up in late September/Early October, after the main tourist season was done and plow alot of money into the local businesses.

 

[niftydrifty]

Christmas is Pagan--Not Birth of Christ.

Correction. December 25 used to be a pagan holiday. Now we use it to celebrate the birth of Christ.

...that Xmas isn't the birth of Christ and the participation of it and worship of it is actually pagan and worship to other gods.

Total BS! participation in Christmas is participation in Christmas! Not participation in something else. Obviously you could celebrate Christmas any day you wanted, and on that day, you'd be celebrating Christmas.

So much for those Churches that just say they follow the Bible.

??? How so?

I'm sure much of you don't or won't care though; not concerned on what the Bible has to say.

Yep, you're right. I don't care. But not because of the Bible, I'm just not concerned with what YOU have to say, ie., unless you can make some logical sense.

 

[Navy Seal Patriot]

niftydrifty, sorry to get you upset about this issue even though you don't care--show me a Mainstream Govt. tax exempt mandated-approved Church Constitution that states "we don't follow the Bible and intrepret as we like and will honor any traditions not Christian." All the Churches I recall will say they "only follow what the bible states to do." Thee old reasoning of were just celebrating the birth of Christ at a belated time doesn't cut it for me; why? Where does the bible say to celebrate b-days and to do it in pagan tradition? Cannot find one verse.

WI CRIPPLER, I cannot stop laughing at your

small airports financed ( We can see where all our tithe money went ).

quote--it's the truth. It was a big lear jet also, like a small commerical airline one--seen it once in I would guess the early 80's. Also, what denominations did the former members mostly go into--just curious.

WI Dells was one of the largest gatherings in the world with close to 12,000 people a year

With that kind of numbers and money gross--I wonder if any deals were made between Armstrong and the Dells? Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 

[niftydrifty]

niftydrifty, sorry to get you upset about this issue even though you don't care--show me a Mainstream Govt. tax exempt mandated-approved Church Constitution that states "we don't follow the Bible and intrepret as we like and will honor any traditions not Christian." All the Churches I recall will say they "only follow what the bible states to do."

LOL, you might make me upset if you hit home with something that made sense. But no, I'm not upset, I'm just amused.

Thee old reasoning of were just celebrating the birth of Christ at a belated time doesn't cut it for me; why?

Because you like to make stuff up, and because you don't realize that new traditions can be made. And that they can change. Yknow, Navy Seal, time moves forward. Traditions from other cultures or beliefs, can be, *GASP*, adopted. This even happens in, of all places, the melting pot of ... America!

Where does the bible say to celebrate b-days and to do it in pagan tradition? Cannot find one verse.

Christians do the darndest things! And I'm still looking for the verses that say we should wage war. I guess we all pick our battles, we all believe whatever we want to.

 

[WI Crippler]

WI CRIPPLER, I cannot stop laughing at your quote--it's the truth. It was a big lear jet also, like a small commerical airline one--seen it once in I would guess the early 80's. Also, what denominations did the former members mostly go into--just curious.

With that kind of numbers and money gross--I wonder if any deals were made between Armstrong and the Dells? Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Well most of the people that are around my age, refuse to step foot in churches unles its for a wedding or a funeral. I can't speak for all of them, just the ones I still keep in touch with. Alot of the adults that I know either don't go, or go to non denominational churches. There are some people still holding onto Armstrongs teachings, holding services in their basements, which is fine I guess if thats what floats your boat, but for the most part I think alot of the people that were in the chruch are in either non-denminational or don't go at all.
The thing about the church is that it was a very profitable organization and they made no attempts to hide it. It was very successful for a long time, and they flaunted it, and people bought into it.

 

[Roberdorus]

Ooh, my favorite subject: the poor persecuted Xtian majority.
Yawn.

I love that 1069 says things like this, as if she's some sort of oppressed minority. Hey, 1069, we all know you're a rich, white girl from the 'burbs. You're not fooling anyone and it's getting really annoying, you cracker.

 

[Gibberish]

A lot of Christianity is either taken from other religions or made up by men over the years. Nothing new.

Today Christmas isn't even a Christian holiday. It's a winter holiday of giving, receiving, and family. You can be whatever religion you want and successfully celebrate the commercial holiday that is Christmas. This is the exact reason Wal-mart is having no problem saying 'Merry Christmas' again. They realize it is more a commercial holiday then a religious one.

 

[1069]

I love that 1069 says things like this, as if she's some sort of oppressed minority. Hey, 1069, we all know you're a rich, white girl from the 'burbs. You're not fooling anyone and it's getting really annoying, you cracker.

Actually, I think "cracker" refers more to blue-collar/ working-class whites (somewhere above "trailer trash" in the southern social hierarchy, yet quite a few rungs below the "rich" designation you ascribe to me).
Therefore, a "rich cracker" would be a contradiction in terms.
If you intend to fling pejoratives, at least be consistent about it.

 

[Southern Belle]

Actually, I think "cracker" refers more to blue-collar/ working-class whites (somewhere above "trailer trash" in the southern social hierarchy, yet quite a few rungs below the "rich" designation you ascribe to me).
Therefore, a "rich cracker" would be a contradiction in terms.
If you intend to fling pejoratives, at least be consistent about it.

:rofl: Cracker is the black people's counter to "N"! It means whip-cracker as in slaveowner and it refers to any white person it's directed at. It is NOT part of the Southern heirarchy.