Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and State

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

quit diverting from the topic
you have insisted coons made a gaffe after o'donnell's ... show us coon's purported gaffe
you won't, you can't, it is not there ... but you will continue to deflect. probably while using the expression "mouth foamer"

I did, you partisan hack refused to accept it. That failure is all yours chief.



Now, do you want to bet or do you want to tuck tail and run?

 

[Wiseone]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Why don't you all pull out your dicks, take a tape measure to them, and settle this right?

Once we get past the dick measuring chest thumping tough guy crap, lets get back to talking about the meaning of 'separation of church and state' and how while the literal phrase is not found in the Constitution it sums up nicely the 200+ years of precedence of rulings by the SCOTUS on what the 1st Amendment exactly means.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nah, I think you're reaching. Listen, I don't like Christine O'Donnell at all and I don't think she's very smart. But she's been a conservative for a long time and it's been drilled into her brain that the founding fathers never meant to separate church and state. She's making that point here. Did you listen to the audio? She's not saying "the first amendment does?" as if to say: "really, are you sure?" She's saying it as an "oh really, I beg to differ" kind of thing.

There are better things to attack her on. I sincerely doubt that she's unaware of the establishment clause.

especially considering that her response was to ask Coons to identify the five liberties in the first amendment; what percent of the population do you think even know there are 5?

 

[justabubba]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

I did, you partisan hack refused to accept it. That failure is all yours chief.



Now, do you want to bet or do you want to tuck tail and run?

still waiting for the purported gaffe

 

[Mustachio]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

especially considering that her response was to ask Coons to identify the five liberties in the first amendment; what percent of the population do you think even know there are 5?

Well, she didn't exactly respond with asking him to identify the five liberties in the first amendment, I can't even find that part of the debate but in the video I watched there are five minutes that go by after she says "the first amendment says that?" and her question to him is not contained within that five minutes. Then the video ends. That's what I really hate about the media, especially digital media. The OP's link contains cut up sound bytes that make her look more ignorant (and yet somehow better in ways) than she actually seemed during that portion of the debate. So the fact that they said "she scored points when he couldn't identify the five liberties in the first amendment" means nothing to me. That article is, as far as I'm concerned, discredited. And then the video I watched is uncut debate where you can see that it played out quite differently, and nobody really scored any points on each other -- although O'Donnell did seem way out of touch regarding her views on religion in public schools. Then the video cuts out! What about the part where she asked him about the five liberties? What, we're not allowed to see that?

But your point stands, the fact that she knows there are five liberties in the first amendment does indicate that she's familiar with it enough to know that the establishment clause is there. I definitely agree with that. And to answer your question, I'd guess that approximately ten percent of Americans know that there are five liberties and approximately three percent could name them. Although on the plus side, I bet a healthy percent of Americans know that somewhere in the constitution it outlines that we have the freedom of speech, press, and religion. Assembly and grievances not so much, but can you blame them? Most people probably aren't aware of those liberties because they don't feel they have them.

EDIT: I'm changing my estimations to 5% knowing there are five liberties and 2% being able to name them.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

still waiting for the purported gaffe

even your liberal gods at slate state its in there.

O'Donnell isn't a total ignoramus. On some particulars of the First Amendment, she seems better briefed than Coons. Thirty-two minutes into the debate, she catches Coons with a pop question:
O'Donnell: Can you name the five freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment?
Coons: I think the very first provision of the First Amendment is that the government shall make no establishment of religion. And before we get into a further debate about exactly which of us knows the Constitution better, how about we—
O'Donnell: No, I'm just asking: Can you name the five freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment?
Coons: —how about we get the panel asking our questions today.

Christine O'Donnell's cocky ignorance of the First Amendment. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

Now run away as usual.

 

[Deuce]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

even your liberal gods at slate state its in there.






Now run away as usual.

The mental gymnastics again. O'Donnell's response was somehow about some other wording Coons wasn't using at the moment, but Coons trying to get the debate back on track automatically means he did not know the answer!

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

The mental gymnastics again. O'Donnell's response was somehow about some other wording Coons wasn't using at the moment, but Coons trying to get the debate back on track automatically means he did not know the answer!

no, the fact he didn't know the answer, meant he did not know the answer. Like I said, Odonell sounded like a retard, though I know what she was attempting to say, but you partisan hacks defending coons in the same debate for his ignorance? its hypocritical to say the least. :lol:

 

[Deuce]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

no, the fact he didn't know the answer, meant he did not know the answer. Like I said, Odonell sounded like a retard, though I know what she was attempting to say, but you partisan hacks defending coons in the same debate for his ignorance? its hypocritical to say the least. :lol:

How do you know he didn't know the answer? ESP?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

How do you know he didn't know the answer? ESP?

ok, you've dumbed down the argument long enough. You've dropped to many deuces, I have no response to this "see no evil" partisan hackery.

 

[Guy Incognito]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

In reality there are six clauses in the first amendment. So I guess whichever one O'Donnell's handlers that fed her that question during the break gaffed too, huh?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

In reality there are six clauses in the first amendment. So I guess whichever one O'Donnell's handlers that fed her that question during the break gaffed too, huh?

Sure, why not. :shrug:


Point is they are both tards. I've only said that how many times? it's you folks making excuses for your guy.

 

[hazlnut]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

ok, you've dumbed down the argument long enough. You've dropped to many deuces, I have no response to this "see no evil" partisan hackery.

In fairness, the dumbing down the argument started on post #2:

Dood, where is it?

Please do tell.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

In fairness, the dumbing down the argument started on post #2:

Things That Are Not In the U.S. Constitution - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net


:failpail:

 

[Ajay]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

I sincerely doubt that she's unaware of the establishment clause.

Really, and you base this on what exactly? Her track record for knowing things?

 

[Ockham]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She doesn't just question the "separation of church and state," she questions the establishment clause itself. Let's make that very clear. It is obvious that she is completely oblivious to the nuanced distinction between "separation" and and "establishment." Why people keeping making this about the meaning of the establishment clause is beyond me. She doesn't know about it at all. Here are her exact words.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

The tea-partiers are just going to have to face up to the fact that they've got a candidate who's even more clueless than Palin.

The establishment clause prevents the Federal government from creating a national religion. When it was written, the 1st amendment prevents what King George decided to do in England - which was to create a Church of England. The establishment clause does not say religion cannot be in government, or on government property. And yes, the supreme court did rule in a very broad view, that there should be a separation of church and state in support of the establishment clause - such that the 1st Amendment prevention, is even stricter.

However O'Donnell is the only one who knew what the 1st Amendment actually said - or in this case --- didn't say. It's not there. It's pretty clear cut. I didn't hear Coons nor the Moderator ask the question or identify Everson vs. the Board of Education, as where the separation of church and state was created. I heard and you posted Coons say it - and he's wrong.

 

[Ockham]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Really, and you base this on what exactly? Her track record for knowing things?

She knew this thing... and the rest of the room didn't. :shrug:

 

[Ajay]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She knew this thing... and the rest of the room didn't. :shrug:

Hey, you have a point there. What would a room full of Law students and law professors know about what is in the first Amendment? LOL

 

[Ockham]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Hey, you have a point there. What would a room full of Law students and law professors know about what is in the first Amendment? LOL

Apparently they don't know much about the language used in the 1st Amendment. She obviously didn't know about Everson or the 1947 ruling... but then again, most people stopped on the street don't know who our Vice President is, and some don't know who the 1st President of the United States was.

 

[Ajay]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Apparently they don't know much about the language used in the 1st Amendment. She obviously didn't know about Everson or the 1947 ruling... but then again, most people stopped on the street don't know who our Vice President is, and some don't know who the 1st President of the United States was.

Apparently the audience could recite the amendment word for word and COD couldn't. She was caught at a loss for words. She obviously was confused about the words, the meaningans and the interpretations. Happens when people live in a bubble of talking points and silly arguments about things they know little about but hear lots about.

 

[Ockham]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Apparently the audience could recite the amendment word for word and COD couldn't. She was caught at a loss for words. She obviously was confused about the words, the meaningans and the interpretations. Happens when people live in a bubble of talking points and silly arguments about things they know little about but hear lots about.

What makes you say the audience could recite the amendment word for word?

Her loss of words was due to her opponent Coons stating something was there that was not.

 

[Ajay]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

What makes you say the audience could recite the amendment word for word?

Her loss of words was due to her opponent Coons stating something was there that was not.

The audience was made up of people who deal with the text every day. The assumption is that they and not COD knows what is in the 1st.

You are reinterpreting her words. Read the transcript and listen. She challenges Coons on what he quotes. On COD's part it may have started out as a silly gotcha type 'those words aren't in the Constitution' but it evolved where she got lost. She obviously was not prepared to debate facts outside of talking points and silly bumper sticker phrases.

Read the transcript.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nothing on Coons gaffe?

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Moderator's Warning:

Thank you for getting back on-topic. Please stay that way.

 

[Ajay]

Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nothing on Coons gaffe?

A gaffe and ignorance are two totally separate things. It's like the difference between a fat-fingering typpo and a misspelting.