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Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and State

hazlnut

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Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and State?"

Coons said that creationism, which he considers "a religious doctrine," should not be taught in public schools due to the Constitution's First Amendment. He argued that it explicitly enumerates the separation of church and state.

"The First Amendment does?" O'Donnell asked. "Let me just clarify: You're telling me that the separation of church and state is found in the First Amendment?"

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion," Coons responded, reciting from memory the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

"That's in the First Amendment...?" O'Donnell responded.

There really are no words... No wonder Karl R. was so pissed when this nitwit O'Donnell got the nomination.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Dood, where is it?

Please do tell.
 

tacomancer

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Yeah, she screwed the pooch on that one. Its her own stupid fault for giving her opponents a ready made attack ad.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

I remember one time, years ago, on Al Franken's show, G. Gordon Liddy made the same point that the literal phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear verbatim in the first amendment.

And Franken responded with: "but the first amendment does say congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, and we have a massive amount of judicial interpretation telling us that this means there is a separation of church and state."

And Liddy said: "well, ok, yeah."
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

but she's not a witch.
Only the water wings saved her.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She doesn't just question the "separation of church and state," she questions the establishment clause itself. Let's make that very clear. It is obvious that she is completely oblivious to the nuanced distinction between "separation" and and "establishment." Why people keeping making this about the meaning of the establishment clause is beyond me. She doesn't know about it at all. Here are her exact words.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

The tea-partiers are just going to have to face up to the fact that they've got a candidate who's even more clueless than Palin.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She doesn't just question the "separation of church and state," she questions the establishment clause itself. Let's make that very clear. It is obvious that she is completely oblivious to the nuanced distinction between "separation" and and "establishment." Why people keeping making this about the meaning of the establishment clause is beyond me. She doesn't know about it at all. Here are her exact words.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

The tea-partiers are just going to have to face up to the fact that they've got a candidate who's even more clueless than Palin.

As long as she isn't a Rino, they don't seem to care about anything else.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She doesn't just question the "separation of church and state," she questions the establishment clause itself. Let's make that very clear. It is obvious that she is completely oblivious to the nuanced distinction between "separation" and and "establishment." Why people keeping making this about the meaning of the establishment clause is beyond me. She doesn't know about it at all. Here are her exact words.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

The tea-partiers are just going to have to face up to the fact that they've got a candidate who's even more clueless than Palin.

it shouldn't be beyond you, they are attempting to defend the indefensible. ;-)
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

She doesn't just question the "separation of church and state," she questions the establishment clause itself. Let's make that very clear. It is obvious that she is completely oblivious to the nuanced distinction between "separation" and and "establishment." Why people keeping making this about the meaning of the establishment clause is beyond me. She doesn't know about it at all. Here are her exact words.

O'Donnell: "You're telling me that separation of church and state is found in the first amendment?"

Coons: "Government shall make no establishment of religion."

O'Donnell: "That's in the first amendment?"

The tea-partiers are just going to have to face up to the fact that they've got a candidate who's even more clueless than Palin.

Nah, I think you're reaching. Listen, I don't like Christine O'Donnell at all and I don't think she's very smart. But she's been a conservative for a long time and it's been drilled into her brain that the founding fathers never meant to separate church and state. She's making that point here. Did you listen to the audio? She's not saying "the first amendment does?" as if to say: "really, are you sure?" She's saying it as an "oh really, I beg to differ" kind of thing.

There are better things to attack her on. I sincerely doubt that she's unaware of the establishment clause.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

The words separation of church and state first appeared in a letter between Thomas Jefferson and the Danbury Baptist Church. It does not appear in the Constitution anywhere. She's actually correct regarding it and Coons is wrong. The original definition of establishment, as used by the founding fathers, means, "Settled regulation; form; ordinance; system of laws; constitution of government." The strict wording of the First Amendment is Congress shall make no law regarding* a system of laws proceeding out of** religion.

*respecting means regarding as used by the founding fathers.
**of means proceeding out of or from.

All definitions compliments of Websters 1828 Dictionary.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nah, I think you're reaching. Listen, I don't like Christine O'Donnell at all and I don't think she's very smart. But she's been a conservative for a long time and it's been drilled into her brain that the founding fathers never meant to separate church and state. She's making that point here. Did you listen to the audio? She's not saying "the first amendment does?" as if to say: "really, are you sure?" She's saying it as an "oh really, I beg to differ" kind of thing.

There are better things to attack her on. I sincerely doubt that she's unaware of the establishment clause.

But she said it right there. I understand that she has had talking points drilled into her

You're right, she's asking it in an "I beg to differ" kind of way. And that just makes it worse for her, because she's trying to say "Gotcha" to Coons when, in fact, Coons had just quoted the first amendment almost verbatim. Look at the transcript. Coons says "Government shall make no establishment of religion." Then O'Donnell comes in with the "Oh really?" Yeah, really, the first amendment really says that the government shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. O'Donnell did not understand that the establishment clause exists, all she understands is that the words "separation of church and state" aren't in the Constitution. In this cartoonist's opinion, that just ain't good enough for a senator.

There are plenty of better things to attack her on, I agree, but this is one that needs to be hammered home to the Tea-Partiers for their own good. This is the type of person they are voting for, and they don't know that Africa is a continent or that the Establishment Clause is contained in the first amendment.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

But she said it right there. I understand that she has had talking points drilled into her

You're right, she's asking it in an "I beg to differ" kind of way. And that just makes it worse for her, because she's trying to say "Gotcha" to Coons when, in fact, Coons had just quoted the first amendment almost verbatim. Look at the transcript. Coons says "Government shall make no establishment of religion." Then O'Donnell comes in with the "Oh really?" Yeah, really, the first amendment really says that the government shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. O'Donnell did not understand that the establishment clause exists, all she understands is that the words "separation of church and state" aren't in the Constitution. In this cartoonist's opinion, that just ain't good enough for a senator.

There are plenty of better things to attack her on, I agree, but this is one that needs to be hammered home to the Tea-Partiers for their own good. This is the type of person they are voting for, and they don't know that Africa is a continent or that the Establishment Clause is contained in the first amendment.




hammering it home just makes you look like a mouth foaming hack. Coon gaffed right after her. To come after ALL of the tea party for her arguable gaffe reeks of partisan hackery.


But you keep hammering away punchy.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

hammering it home just makes you look like a mouth foaming hack. Coon gaffed right after her. To come after ALL of the tea party for her arguable gaffe reeks of partisan hackery.

Nonsense. Coons didn't gaffe, he just made an argument you don't agree with. I personally don't agree with Coons either, he didn't look like a Constitutional law scholar out there but at least he didn't look like a moron. He knew the basics of what he was talking about, whether you agree with him or not you have to at least concede that much (or maybe a mouthfoamer like the good Rev can't be objective enough for that?).

O'Donnell, on the other hand, is clearly out of her depth just talking about the constitution. There's a big difference. O'Donnell has lowered the bar for serious senatorial candidates. The Tea-Partiers should just change their name to the Know-Nothing party and be done with it.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nonsense. Coons didn't gaffe, he just made an argument you don't agree with. I personally don't agree with Coons either, he didn't look like a Constitutional law scholar out there but at least he didn't look like a moron. He knew the basics of what he was talking about, whether you agree with him or not you have to at least concede that much (or maybe a mouthfoamer like the good Rev can't be objective enough for that?).



O’Donnell was later able to score some points of her own off the remark, revisiting the issue to ask Coons if he could identify the “five freedoms guaranteed in the First Amendment.”

Coons named the separation of church and state, but could not identify the others — the freedoms of speech, press, to assemble and petition — and asked that O’Donnell allow the moderators ask the questions.

“I guess he can’t,” O’Donnell said.



Read more: Christine O?Donnell questions First Amendment, separation of church and state - Andy Barr - POLITICO.com


O'Donnell, on the other hand, is clearly out of her depth just talking about the constitution. There's a big difference. O'Donnell has lowered the bar for serious senatorial candidates. The Tea-Partiers should just change their name to the Know-Nothing party and be done with it.



Who you calling a mouth foamer. The gaffe is right there for all to see and only one of you even has acknowledged it. Again, I am not a fan of O'donnell but the partisan hackery of the usual suspects seems even more rabid if at all possible.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Christine O'Donnell is a very intelligent woman. Very wrong. But very intelligent. Chris Coons has very smartly played straight man George Burns to Christine's zany Gracie Allen throughout this campaign.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

But she said it right there. I understand that she has had talking points drilled into her

You're right, she's asking it in an "I beg to differ" kind of way. And that just makes it worse for her, because she's trying to say "Gotcha" to Coons when, in fact, Coons had just quoted the first amendment almost verbatim. Look at the transcript. Coons says "Government shall make no establishment of religion." Then O'Donnell comes in with the "Oh really?" Yeah, really, the first amendment really says that the government shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. O'Donnell did not understand that the establishment clause exists, all she understands is that the words "separation of church and state" aren't in the Constitution. In this cartoonist's opinion, that just ain't good enough for a senator.

There are plenty of better things to attack her on, I agree, but this is one that needs to be hammered home to the Tea-Partiers for their own good. This is the type of person they are voting for, and they don't know that Africa is a continent or that the Establishment Clause is contained in the first amendment.

Yeah I don't know, I guess I feel like you're right about the big stuff and trying a little bit too hard to point at specific and somewhat misleading examples as the nails in their political coffin. I remember in fall of 2008 a bunch of Republicans got on this "Obama thinks there are 51 states" bandwagon, and there it was, him saying it in a video... but anybody who thinks that Obama doesn't know how many states there are clearly has limited reasoning abilities. The establishment clause thing and the Africa is a continent thing are kind of ambiguous to me, but the important message isn't that Christine O'Donnell doesn't have the facts, it's that when she has the facts and STILL gets it wrong. But it sounded like that's essentially what you're saying, so we agree.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Nah, I think you're reaching. Listen, I don't like Christine O'Donnell at all and I don't think she's very smart. But she's been a conservative for a long time and it's been drilled into her brain that the founding fathers never meant to separate church and state. She's making that point here. Did you listen to the audio? She's not saying "the first amendment does?" as if to say: "really, are you sure?" She's saying it as an "oh really, I beg to differ" kind of thing.

There are better things to attack her on. I sincerely doubt that she's unaware of the establishment clause.


What she reveals is a complete ignorance for constitutional law precedent, and over 25 SCOTUS rulings, etc.

She may be able to point out the word 'establishment' in the first amendment, but she can't even begin to explain what it means or why it's important.

Teabaggers sure know how to pick 'em... :roll: Everyday another Teabag idiot candidate steps in it.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Who you calling a mouth foamer. The gaffe is right there for all to see and only one of you even has acknowledged it. Again, I am not a fan of O'donnell but the partisan hackery of the usual suspects seems even more rabid if at all possible.

Yeah if you watch the video it tells you a lot more. Christine O'Donnell says she isn't familiar with the 15th or 16th amendments. She knows the 14th and 17th.

I can't find the part of the debate where she asks him about the five freedoms found in the first amendment. But until you've seen it, I wouldn't assume that he was stumped. Even if you don't like him, he's not stupid, he's definitely read the constitution and probably knows it better than you or I. So it may not have been that he was "stumped," he probably just refused to answer. But find the video or the audio for proof and we'll see.

What she reveals is a complete ignorance for constitutional law precedent, and over 25 SCOTUS rulings, etc.

She may be able to point out the word 'establishment' in the first amendment, but she can't even begin to explain what it means or why it's important.

Teabaggers sure know how to pick 'em... :roll: Everyday another Teabag idiot candidate steps in it.

Exactly. Now we're home. Watch the video I just linked to. She's not a smart person. She would make a horrible Senator. It's very obvious. You don't need to nitpick what she does and she doesn't know because she's such a bad candidate.
 
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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Yeah if you watch the video it tells you a lot more. Christine O'Donnell says she isn't familiar with the 15th or 16th amendments. She knows the 14th and 17th.

I can't find the part of the debate where she asks him about the five freedoms found in the first amendment. But until you've seen it, I wouldn't assume that he was stumped. Even if you don't like him, he's not stupid, he's definitely read the constitution and probably knows it better than you or I. So it may not have been that he was "stumped," he probably just refused to answer. But find the video or the audio for proof and we'll see.


You want to bet a forum donation on it?
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

You want to bet a forum donation on it?

It's too subjective, there's a chance we'd disagree. But count me in for future forum donation bets, that's a great idea.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

It's too subjective, there's a chance we'd disagree. But count me in for future forum donation bets, that's a great idea.


Thats cool to know. I'm about even thus far. ;)


However It's not subjective at all...


Coons named the separation of church and state, but could not identify the others — the freedoms of speech, press, to assemble and petition — and asked that O’Donnell allow the moderators ask the questions.


either he identifies them or doesn't before he tells her the moderator should be asking questions.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

Who you calling a mouth foamer. The gaffe is right there for all to see and only one of you even has acknowledged it. Again, I am not a fan of O'donnell but the partisan hackery of the usual suspects seems even more rabid if at all possible.

it appears the mouth foamer comment was in reference to you; isn't that an expression you commonly use?
so, point out the portion of the video where coons committed the gaffe you insist he made:
YouTube - Christine O'Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 7:03, 2:37, 3:35) fameappeal.com
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

it appears the mouth foamer comment was in reference to you; isn't that an expression you commonly use?
so, point out the portion of the video where coons committed the gaffe you insist he made:
YouTube - Christine O'Donnell ignorant of the Constitution (go to 7:03, 2:37, 3:35) fameappeal.com



How about you chief, you want to put a forum donation bet on it? The whole thing will be up any day, as will the transcript.... put your money where your mouth is.
 

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Re: Christine O'Donnell: "Where in the Constitution is the Separation of Church and S

How about you chief, you want to put a forum donation bet on it? The whole thing will be up any day, as will the transcript.... put your money where your mouth is.

quit diverting from the topic
you have insisted coons made a gaffe after o'donnell's ... show us coon's purported gaffe
you won't, you can't, it is not there ... but you will continue to deflect. probably while using the expression "mouth foamer"
 
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