• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Christians and Israel

And that does not include giving blind and total affirmation of every Israeli policy on the West Bank


As an american Jew, I will totally and absolutely agree with that. ON the other hand, I also think that the actual evidence should be looked at, and not a knee jerk reaction against Israel either.
 
Of course he's referring to believers in Jesus Christ.

Exactly.

Paul is discussing the role of the Old Testament Law as it relates to Christianity. He argues that Jewish circumcision is only an outward sign of being set apart to God. However, if the heart is sinful, then physical circumcision is of no avail. A circumcised body and a sinful heart are at odds with each other. Rather than focus on external rites, Paul focuses on the condition of the heart. Using circumcision as a metaphor, he says that only the Holy Spirit can purify a heart and set us apart to God. Ultimately, circumcision cannot make a person right with God; the Law is not enough. A person’s heart must change. Paul calls this change “circumcision of the heart.”

This concept was not original with the apostle Paul. As a Jew trained in the Law of Moses, he was certainly aware of this discussion from Deuteronomy 30. There, the Lord used the same metaphor to communicate His desire for a holy people: “And the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live” (Deuteronomy 30:6). Physical circumcision was a sign of Israel’s covenant with God; circumcision of the heart, therefore, would indicate Israel’s being set apart to love God fully, inside and out.


Read more: What is circumcision of the heart?

Exactly, so what defines who is and who is not God's People today, is not whether they are ethnically Jewish.

GOd has made a NEW covenant ...

So no, we have no religious reason to support Israel over any other secular ethnocentric apartheid state.

Romans 11:26 says that all Israel will be saved. What do you think is meant by "Israel?" You think it's figuratively speaking? You advocate replacement theology in which you believe Israel has been replaced.

I want to ask you, what was the purpose of the covenent God made With Israel? And is that covenant still in effect?

The passages that speak of future Israel are difficult to view as figurative for the Church.

......

For you to believe it's literal, you'd have to IGNORE all of the rest of Pauls writings. Paul CONSISTANTLY says, that the New Israel, is the community of believers, it has nothing to do With whether one is ethnically a Jew or not.

Romans 11:16-24, shows us that the olive tree is origionally made up of those from the old covenant to create the New covenant, which then took in People of all nations.

The promise for the land was for a specific purpose, that the nations would bless themlseves through them, How would they bless themselves? Through the messiah, the messiah has come, Israel has surved it's purpose.

THe national of Israel has 0, ZERO, nothing, Connection to ancient Israel, religiously or ethnically.
 
Last edited:
Rubio's blistering speech on Obama's assault on Israel

Obama has never once assaulted Israel. In fact, he's actively tried to protect it.
 
You got that wrong!

God still has plans for Israel. It's coming - in end times!


Zechariah 8
The Coming Peace and Prosperity of Zion
And the word of the Lord of hosts came, saying, 2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: sI am jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I am jealous for her with great wrath. 3 Thus says the Lord: tI have returned to Zion and uwill dwell in the midst of Jerusalem, vand Jerusalem shall be called the faithful city, wand the mountain of the Lord of hosts, the holy mountain. 4 Thus says the Lord of hosts: xOld men and old women shall again sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with staff in hand because of great age. 5 And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in its streets. 6 Thus says the Lord of hosts: yIf it is marvelous in the sight of the remnant of this people in those days, zshould it also be marvelous in my sight, declares the Lord of hosts? 7 Thus says the Lord of hosts: Behold, aI will save my people bfrom the east country and from the west country, 8 and I will bring them to dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. cAnd they shall be my people, and I will be their God, din faithfulness and in righteousness.”

Yeah, this has been fulfilled in Christ .... unlesss you actually believe it's literal, in which case Christians should be runnin Israel, not secular Israelies.


Zechariah 12
Him Whom They Have Pierced

10 “And zI will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and zpleas for mercy, so that, awhen they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, bthey shall mourn for him, cas one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.

Ok ...


Rev 7
144,000 Sealed

After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3 “Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

5 From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6 from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7 from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8 from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.




Several other Biblical references to support this. I can't post the whole thing.
You should read the whole explanation on this site:

Will all Israel be saved in the end times?

Revelation spends a Whole lot of time talkin about the New Jerusalem ... the Whole point is comparing the New Church of God, the New covenant to the old and using the symbols of the old covenant to expand on the New.
 
As a Jew, though a non-Israeli one, I would like Christians to stay away from Israel and stop using it as a pawn. Jews are not here to help you wage war on your rival, Islam. Jews are not here to help you secure wealth from oil in the Middle East. Jews are not here to be sacrificed so that your savior can end the world and create a paradise for you (and not for the sacrificed Jews). Jews are here for Jews.

Christians are called to defend the weak and the defenseless, and to stop those being led to slaughter.
Those are in the Bible.

We are, according to the Scriptures, also called upon to stand with Israel.

This is hilarious considering how much of the last two thousand years has consisted of Christians slaughtering the weak and defenseless, especially Jews.

It's the nation of Israel. That's what's in the Scriptures.

Obviously everyone needs Jesus Christ to be saved.
That there is an issue with Jews is clear. It's there in the Scriptures. That issue however, is,
between God and the Jews.

Please leave us out of all your nonsense. We want no part in it.

It is VERY MUCH relevant if one is a Christian voter who takes the Scriptures seriously!

There is little else in this country more frightening than that contingent.
 
Without Israel, there wouldn't be Christianity. Christians have an obligation to stand with Israel.
We shouldn't be silent about that.



Rubio's blistering speech on Obama's assault on Israel







Genesis 12
3
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”


Joel 3:1-3
The Lord Judges the Nations
3 [a] “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land, 3 and have cast lots for my people, and have traded a boy for a prostitute, and have sold a girl for wine and have drunk it.


Romans 11
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

Ephesians 3
6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,


There is nothing in Christianity that says that I have to be a Zionist. Nothing.
 
There is nothing in Christianity that says that I have to be a Zionist. Nothing.


Zionism is : an international movement originally for the establishment of a Jewish national or religious community in Palestine and later for the support of modern Israel



Therefore - there is in the Bible that says you have to be a Zionist.


God's eternal purpose is to bless the world through Israel. Already He has done so in measure, for "salvation is from the Jews" (John 4:22), but the fullness of future blessing is indicated in the wondrous promise of Isaiah 27:6: "In days to come Jacob will take root, Israel will bud and blossom and fill all the world with fruit."

The declaration that "salvation is from the Jews” suggests our immeasurable debt to Israel. All that we have worth having has come to us through the Jews. Our Bible is a Jewish Book, and our Savior is a Jewish Savior. Let us never forget to pray for God's chosen people. It is true that Israel, today, is in the place of rejection. The nation is a secular, unbelieving (as to the claims of Scripture and their Messiah, Jesus Christ) nation; but "…at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace" (Romans 11:5). Some Jews are being saved and are becoming members of the body of Christ through faith in their Messiah.

Jews are, biblically speaking, the "chosen people of God" and dearly loved by Him. Another reason for Christians to support the nation of Israel is because of the Abrahamic Covenant. We read of God’s promise in Genesis 12:2-3, "I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you; I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you" (see also Genesis 27:29; Numbers 24:9).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/support-Israel.html#ixzz3XZP0g6KP




If we look back, we can see that the Holocaust was the cause of the re-establishment of Israel back to their place. That was their promised land from God. And the 6-day miracle war points to the will and intention of God.

It's stated in the Bible how we should treat Israel.
If it's God's intention to fulfill His covenant with Abraham (and I don't think God ever reneges on His covenant)......

........then your issue is with God. Refer to the verses given.


It's just a matter of choice: Do you support God's will, or not?
 
Last edited:
It's just a matter of choice: Do you support God's will, or not?

Please, don't take the emotion road. This is an intellectual matter. Now, explain to me this strange account in the Gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 21: "In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once."

What is the significance of this passage?
 
Please, don't take the emotion road. This is an intellectual matter.

What emotion road? This has nothing to do with emotion. This is all about Biblical facts!
Yes, it's an intellectual matter. It's simple logic. Here it is:

God made a covenant with Abraham regarding Israel and promised them a land.
The land Israel now occupies, is a fraction of the land that God had given them (refer to the Bible for the borders).
It is the will of God that Israel gets its land as promised, and it is the will of God that gentiles stand with Israel.


CONCLUSION: THEREFORE, it is expected of every Christian to support the will of God!



Like I said. It's a matter of choice. It boils down to whether you support the will of God, or not.
 
Why do a lot of people - including some Christians - hate the Jews? I think this will be a philosophical discussion so I'll post it in Philosophy, What's the reason for anti-semitism?

As a Christian, I am not obliged to undoubtedly like the Jews and support them in everything they do. There have been times in the bible where even the Jews have ****ed up (they're not perfect just because 70 years ago there happened to be a holocaust?!?!?!?!?! WOW!) and even today there are faults in how Israel conducts itself. A truly good Christian would point out their flaws so as to help them, and if needed, deny them certain aids and comforts if they do not listen.
 
Please, don't take the emotion road. This is an intellectual matter. Now, explain to me this strange account in the Gospel of Matthew.

Matthew 21: "In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry. And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once."

What is the significance of this passage?

Yes the fig tree is often used as a symbolism for Israel. The passage however does not negate the fact that Israel would be re-established, and is not forgotten by God. Israel is still very much in the picture in the end times!

There is a remnant - REMNANT - of the old Israel that will be gathered by Christ!




Here is an excerpt of a lengthy but detailed explanation.


As to the significance of this passage and what it means, the answer to that is again found in the chronological setting and in understanding how a fig tree is often used symbolically to represent Israel in the Scriptures. First of all, chronologically, Jesus had just arrived at Jerusalem amid great fanfare and great expectations, but then proceeds to cleanse the Temple and curse the barren fig tree. Both had significance as to the spiritual condition of Israel. With His cleansing of the Temple and His criticism of the worship that was going on there (Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17), Jesus was effectively denouncing Israel’s worship of God. With the cursing of the fig tree, He was symbolically denouncing Israel as a nation and, in a sense, even denouncing unfruitful “Christians” (that is, people who profess to be Christian but have no evidence of a relationship with Christ).

The presence of a fruitful fig tree was considered to be a symbol of blessing and prosperity for the nation of Israel. Likewise, the absence or death of a fig tree would symbolize judgment and rejection. Symbolically, the fig tree represented the spiritual deadness of Israel, who while very religious outwardly with all the sacrifices and ceremonies, were spiritually barren because of their sins. By cleansing the Temple and cursing the fig tree, causing it to whither and die, Jesus was pronouncing His coming judgment of Israel and demonstrating His power to carry it out. It also teaches the principle that religious profession and observance are not enough to guarantee salvation, unless there is the fruit of genuine salvation evidenced in the life of the person. James would later echo this truth when he wrote that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:26). The lesson of the fig tree is that we should bear spiritual fruit (Galatians 5:22-23), not just give an appearance of religiosity. God judges fruitlessness, and expects that those who have a relationship with Him will “bear much fruit” (John 15:5-8).


Read more: Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
Please, don't take the emotion road. This is an intellectual matter. Now, explain to me this strange account in the Gospel of Matthew.

You should read this whole chapter!

Romans 11 New International Version (NIV)

The Remnant of Israel

11 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”

9 And David says:

“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”


Ingrafted Branches

11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!


All Israel Will Be Saved

25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27
And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”


28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Doxology

33
Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God!
How unsearchable his judgments,
and his paths beyond tracing out!
34
“Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been his counselor?”[j]
35
“Who has ever given to God,
that God should repay them?”[k]
36
For from him and through him and for him are all things.
To him be the glory forever! Amen.
 
Last edited:
As a Christian, I am not obliged to undoubtedly like the Jews and support them in everything they do. There have been times in the bible where even the Jews have ****ed up (they're not perfect just because 70 years ago there happened to be a holocaust?!?!?!?!?! WOW!) and even today there are faults in how Israel conducts itself. A truly good Christian would point out their flaws so as to help them, and if needed, deny them certain aids and comforts if they do not listen.


You're saying you're going to deal with Israel your way.

Like I said: it's a matter of choice. The Bible is explicit on the matter. The will of God regarding Israel is clearly stated. You've made your choice.
 
What emotion road? This has nothing to do with emotion. This is all about Biblical facts!
Yes, it's an intellectual matter. It's simple logic. Here it is:

God made a covenant with Abraham regarding Israel and promised them a land.
The land Israel now occupies, is a fraction of the land that God had given them (refer to the Bible for the borders).
It is the will of God that Israel gets its land as promised, and it is the will of God that gentiles stand with Israel.


CONCLUSION: THEREFORE, it is expected of every Christian to support the will of God!



Like I said. It's a matter of choice. It boils down to whether you support the will of God, or not.

We both agree that we must support the will of God. Where we disagree is on what the will of God, and thus you even bringing up the issue presupposes that we cannot disagree on what the will of God is. This is an intellectual debate, not a case of ill will.
 
Yes the fig tree is often used as a symbolism for Israel. The passage however does not negate the fact that Israel would be re-established, and is not forgotten by God. Israel is still very much in the picture in the end times!

There is a remnant - REMNANT - of the old Israel that will be gathered by Christ!




Here is an excerpt of a lengthy but detailed explanation.


As to the significance of this passage and what it means, the answer to that is again found in the chronological setting and in understanding how a fig tree is often used symbolically to represent Israel in the Scriptures. First of all, chronologically, Jesus had just arrived at Jerusalem amid great fanfare and great expectations, but then proceeds to cleanse the Temple and curse the barren fig tree. Both had significance as to the spiritual condition of Israel. With His cleansing of the Temple and His criticism of the worship that was going on there (Matthew 21:13; Mark 11:17), Jesus was effectively denouncing Israel’s worship of God. With the cursing of the fig tree, He was symbolically denouncing Israel as a nation and, in a sense, even denouncing unfruitful “Christians” (that is, people who profess to be Christian but have no evidence of a relationship with Christ).

The presence of a fruitful fig tree was considered to be a symbol of blessing and prosperity for the nation of Israel. Likewise, the absence or death of a fig tree would symbolize judgment and rejection. Symbolically, the fig tree represented the spiritual deadness of Israel, who while very religious outwardly with all the sacrifices and ceremonies, were spiritually barren because of their sins. By cleansing the Temple and cursing the fig tree, causing it to whither and die, Jesus was pronouncing His coming judgment of Israel and demonstrating His power to carry it out. It also teaches the principle that religious profession and observance are not enough to guarantee salvation, unless there is the fruit of genuine salvation evidenced in the life of the person. James would later echo this truth when he wrote that “faith without works is dead” (James 2:26). The lesson of the fig tree is that we should bear spiritual fruit (Galatians 5:22-23), not just give an appearance of religiosity. God judges fruitlessness, and expects that those who have a relationship with Him will “bear much fruit” (John 15:5-8).


Read more: Why did Jesus curse the fig tree?

Jesus said "May no fruit ever come from you again!" Ever.
 
Christians have no obligation to support one state or another.
 
We both agree that we must support the will of God. Where we disagree is on what the will of God, and thus you even bringing up the issue presupposes that we cannot disagree on what the will of God is. This is an intellectual debate, not a case of ill will.

The Scripture is clear on that. That's where we disagree.
 
Jesus said "May no fruit ever come from you again!" Ever.



Jesus had just finished cleansing the temple because He was displeased with their worship of God. The fig tree symbolizes the spiritual deadness of Israel, who while very religious outwardly with all the sacrifices and ceremonies, were spiritually barren because of their sins!

Haven't you read the same about churches-bearing-fruits in other gospel?

The fig tree was not only about Israel in that verse. It applies to us all.
It's another lesson being given by Jesus to His Apostles!

Here is one:


John 15
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.
 
Last edited:
Without Israel, there wouldn't be Christianity. Christians have an obligation to stand with Israel.
We shouldn't be silent about that.



Rubio's blistering speech on Obama's assault on Israel







Genesis 12
3
I will bless those who bless you,
And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”


Joel 3:1-3
The Lord Judges the Nations
3 [a] “For behold, in those days and at that time, when I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will gather all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. And I will enter into judgment with them there, on behalf of my people and my heritage Israel, because they have scattered them among the nations and have divided up my land, 3 and have cast lots for my people, and have traded a boy for a prostitute, and have sold a girl for wine and have drunk it.


Romans 11
Israel’s Rejection Not Total
11 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew.

Ephesians 3
6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,


Didn't you here? There's a new covenant.

Christians should not support those who hate them.
 
Jesus had just finished cleansing the temple because He was displeased with their worship of God. The fig tree symbolizes the spiritual deadness of Israel, who while very religious outwardly with all the sacrifices and ceremonies, were spiritually barren because of their sins!

Haven't you read the same about churches-bearing-fruits in other gospel?

The fig tree was not only about Israel in that verse. It applies to us all.
It's another lesson being given by Jesus to His Apostles!

Here is one:


John 15
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.

Yet the difference there is that Jesus is talking about the final judgment. In Matthew Jesus currently curses the fig tree and says it will never grow fruit again, ever.
 
Yet the difference there is that Jesus is talking about the final judgment. In Matthew Jesus currently curses the fig tree and says it will never grow fruit again, ever.

There are several other verses that were given that clearly shows Israel is not lost.
Israel - what few remnants (remainder) are left - is still very much part of the big picture!
Therefore, that Matthew verse cannot really mean that Israel is no longer relevant. It is an analogy that pertains to all - as the analogy of branches and fruits in John.


God had never turned away from His covenant - He'll never do that.
That would make Him inconsistent, unfaithful and not trustworthy. Which, He is not.
 
Last edited:
There are several other verses that were given that clearly shows Israel is not lost.
Israel - what few remnants (remainder) are left - is still very much part of the big picture!
Therefore, that Matthew verse cannot really mean that Israel is no longer relevant. It is an analogy that pertains to all - as the analogy of branches and fruits in John.


God had never turned away from His covenant - He'll never do that.
That would make Him inconsistent, unfaithful and not trustworthy. Which, He is not.

God did not break the covenant, the Jews did. Jeremiah 31:31-32:

"Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord."
 
God did not break the covenant, the Jews did. Jeremiah 31:31-32:

"Behold the days shall come, saith the Lord, and I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Juda: Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers, in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt: the covenant which they made void, and I had dominion over them, saith the Lord."

No, God did not break His covenant.

And here's the rest of what God had said regarding Israel:

Jeremiah 31

33
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”


 
No, God did not break His covenant.

And here's the rest of what God had said regarding Israel:

Jeremiah 31

33
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”



Yes, Jeremiah said that the Lord will make a new covenant. That new covenant came with Jesus. The Jews have to accept Jesus to be saved.
 
Yes, Jeremiah said that the Lord will make a new covenant. That new covenant came with Jesus. The Jews have to accept Jesus to be saved.


Yes. There are already Jews that are Christians.

God had already stated that's what's going to happen:


34
No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.



And the slate will be wiped clean:

“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
 
Back
Top Bottom