Christians and homosexuality (my two cents) (1 Viewer)

[Independent Patriot]

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin and that there are many far fringe groups who claim to be Christian that take this way too far. Now before you get all hot under the collar finish reading this post before you go into "flame on" mode.

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin, but what I don't understand is why some Christians think it is the only sin God hates. God hates sin period, that includes the hate some Christians show towards gays and lesbians. As a Christian I also understand that I am a sinner and that my sins are not any less of a sin in God's eyes then those who are homosexual. But why do so many Christians make others practice of homosexuality their problem?

The Great Commission left by Jesus before his ascent into heaven did not say to convert all the people of the world. He did not say to go out and tell all the sinners they were going to hell (those of you that do this need to point the finger in the mirror as well). He said to go spread the good news, and that good news is that he died for our sins and that now we can be forgiven and have salvation through his sacrifice.

Some Christians however feel that they also have to get people to believe in Christ come hell or high water. What part of the concept free will do you Christians not understand? Sure tell homosexuals about Jesus and that they can be forgiven for their sins, but in the end it is between them and Christ when it comes to repentence. Some Christians act as if they will go to hell if they can't get a homosexual person to repent.

Now I am not saying you are not free to have an opinion, since you clearly are. I have an opinion on the matter and will speak my mind freely as well. But, your words need not be laced with hate towards homsexuality. I think every Christian needs to remember that your sins burden God just as much as any homosexual, and it is always interesting to me that those who hate homosexuals the most are the last ones to ever talk about their sins. If anyone watched the Hannity and Colmes interview with the crazy lady from Westboro Baptist Church you would see what I mean.

My personal approach is that I recognize it as sin and will call it such. I won't accept it, but I can tolerate that it exists and that they have an opinion they would like to express. As long as they are not infringing their beliefs upon myself or my family I will tell them the good news and if they reject it that is between them and Christ. In the end you need to understand that God gave them free will to make a decision for themselves and he did not commission you to force that decision. But that is just my two cents.

 

[Donkey1499]

At my church, we're taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. Although some punishments need to be given out (like for murder, rape, and child molestation; just to name some).

 

[Iriemon]

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin and that there are many far fringe groups who claim to be Christian that take this way too far. Now before you get all hot under the collar finish reading this post before you go into "flame on" mode.

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin, but what I don't understand is why some Christians think it is the only sin God hates. God hates sin period, that includes the hate some Christians show towards gays and lesbians. As a Christian I also understand that I am a sinner and that my sins are not any less of a sin in God's eyes then those who are homosexual. But why do so many Christians make others practice of homosexuality their problem?

For that matter Jesus never said anything about homosexuality that I am aware of; to discern that it is indeed a sin you have to look for other references in the Bible, particularly the OT. Which is fine; but what I see from conservative Christians is selective application of OT rules. The ones that support their conservative politics (ie homosexuality) they focus on. The ones they don't (currently) support (slavery is OK, though you are not supposed to beat them to death) they conveniently ignore.

 

[tecoyah]

My personal approach is that I recognize it as sin and will call it such. I won't accept it, but I can tolerate that it exists and that they have an opinion they would like to express. As long as they are not infringing their beliefs upon myself or my family I will tell them the good news and if they reject it that is between them and Christ. In the end you need to understand that God gave them free will to make a decision for themselves and he did not commission you to force that decision. But that is just my two cents.

If only....others of your faith prescibed to such tolerance. Many a Pagan would buy them a beer.

 

[jamesrage]

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin and that there are many far fringe groups who claim to be Christian that take this way too far. Now before you get all hot under the collar finish reading this post before you go into "flame on" mode.

As a Christian I understand that homosexuality is a sin, but what I don't understand is why some Christians think it is the only sin God hates. God hates sin period, that includes the hate some Christians show towards gays and lesbians.

I beleave that many christians understand that homosexuality is not the only sin in the Bible.It is the left that tries to paint christians as beleaving that homosexuality is the only sin besides abortion.Fred PHelps is the exception to that.

The problem I see is that many leftist try to discredit certian parts of the bible as a form of denial by trying to discredit the book of leviticus and the postle Paul by claiming that it was written by the Pharasies,the Jews hated the Romans,Paul was a ultra extreamist,cultural contex or some other horseshit like that in order to discredit the bible.Some athiest try to discredit the bible by suggesting that there is not proof Christ was striaght of that Christ existed.Or they use blatently obvious incorrect translations of certian verses in order to try to claim that something is not a sin.

This site for example blatently misinterprets Leviticus 18:22
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm

Do not lie with a man as if it were the same thing as lying with a woman." That is, when two gay males have a sexual encounter, they should continuously be aware that it is different from a male-female coupling. It might be interpreted to mean: "Set up a parallel set of institutions for dealing with this kind of sexual relationship, different from those that apply to sexual relationships between a man and a woman."
bullet "Do not sleep with a man as it were with a woman" That is, if two males engage in a sexual act, neither should pretend that the passive partner is like a woman. They should be fully aware of their sexual orientation and maleness. i.e. they should come out of the "closet" and recognize their gayness.


The problem is that fake christians(I call the wolves in sheep's clothing) try to create this sense of denial that homosexuality is a sin.The Christian concept is confession of sins,seeking forgivenenss for sins and repenting of sins.You can not ask forgivenss and repeant for a sin if you do not acknowledge that it is a sin.

 

[justone]

If only....others of your faith prescibed to such tolerance. Many a Pagan would buy them a beer.

tolerance is his faith. Anybody who follows the faith is preaching tolerance.
According to the faith pagans will be burned in hell. How you are going to get beer there? No way for you.

 

[Independent Patriot]

At my church, we're taught to hate the sin, not the sinner. Although some punishments need to be given out (like for murder, rape, and child molestation; just to name some).

Sounds good to me.

 

[Independent Patriot]

For that matter Jesus never said anything about homosexuality that I am aware of; to discern that it is indeed a sin you have to look for other references in the Bible, particularly the OT. Which is fine; but what I see from conservative Christians is selective application of OT rules. The ones that support their conservative politics (ie homosexuality) they focus on. The ones they don't (currently) support (slavery is OK, though you are not supposed to beat them to death) they conveniently ignore.

Well I would agree that some Christians like to cherry pick the OT. But there are some parts of the OT that were written with the times. Slavery was one of them. Many times slavery existed as a way to repay debts to others, call it debt collecting taken to an extreme if you will. But, I try to keep myself studying of the Bible, and find the understanding in it. While I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, I can't get past the fact it was written by man, and translated by man and since man is not perfect...well you see where I am going with this one. But then again that is where faith will come in for me.

 

[Independent Patriot]

I beleave that many christians understand that homosexuality is not the only sin in the Bible.It is the left that tries to paint christians as beleaving that homosexuality is the only sin besides abortion.Fred PHelps is the exception to that.

The problem I see is that many leftist try to discredit certian parts of the bible as a form of denial by trying to discredit the book of leviticus and the postle Paul by claiming that it was written by the Pharasies,the Jews hated the Romans,Paul was a ultra extreamist,cultural contex or some other horseshit like that in order to discredit the bible.Some athiest try to discredit the bible by suggesting that there is not proof Christ was striaght of that Christ existed.Or they use blatently obvious incorrect translations of certian verses in order to try to claim that something is not a sin.

This site for example blatently misinterprets Leviticus 18:22
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh.htm

Do not lie with a man as if it were the same thing as lying with a woman." That is, when two gay males have a sexual encounter, they should continuously be aware that it is different from a male-female coupling. It might be interpreted to mean: "Set up a parallel set of institutions for dealing with this kind of sexual relationship, different from those that apply to sexual relationships between a man and a woman."
bullet "Do not sleep with a man as it were with a woman" That is, if two males engage in a sexual act, neither should pretend that the passive partner is like a woman. They should be fully aware of their sexual orientation and maleness. i.e. they should come out of the "closet" and recognize their gayness.


The problem is that fake christians(I call the wolves in sheep's clothing) try to create this sense of denial that homosexuality is a sin.The Christian concept is confession of sins,seeking forgivenenss for sins and repenting of sins.You can not ask forgivenss and repeant for a sin if you do not acknowledge that it is a sin.

I agree, and I will tell a homosexual that they are sinning and that unless they recognize that and repent they cannot recieve grace through Christ. But, I don't press them and tell them they are going to hell. It is their free will to continue on how they wish. Besides in the end it's not up to me what happens to anyone after their death.

I don't really read out at Religious Tolerance too often, I have noticed several bad interpretations of the Bible there. If that is what they want to believe that is fine, but I will have to wholeheartedly disagree with them.

 

[wackestmc]

You're a pretty big breath of fresh air after some of the clowns around here. Welcome! I like you.

 

[ngdawg]

tolerance is his faith. Anybody who follows the faith is preaching tolerance.
According to the faith pagans will be burned in hell. How you are going to get beer there? No way for you.

Not everyone who follows 'the faith' preaches tolerance-that's kinda the point here. To wit: everything Jamesrage disagrees about is attributed to 'leftist, liberal, atheistic lies' or 'double-speak'-yet he'll quote bible passages and angrily defend Christ-all the while not following anything that could be considered 'the message'.
On the other hand, Tecoyah, who knows a lot about the bible, does NOT 'follow the faith', yet shows more tolerance than most anyone I've seen here who proclaims(quite emphatically) their Christianity.
There seems to be a 'I'm a 'Christian', so I'm right' mentality, regardless of what they're slamming, without once actually trying to learn anything about who or what they're so against.
I have never heard a 'christian' be completely tolerant of anything, from here, from my inlaws, anyone. If you make even a hint of a disparaging remark about their savior, they're all over you with outrageous arguments. Not debate, smacks. They're quick to label, whether it's 'leftist liberal', 'pro-death', whatever. There's aspects of people that aren't even sin, yet they claim it is and then go into tirades of hate-filled nonsense, all the while proclaiming it is their object of ire that's the hateful one. I find it at the very least, laughable and truly quite nonsensical. Hate is what makes one so fired-up, so emotionally unstable. It takes energy to hate, it takes time and it takes a lot of creativity and emotion that would be better spent trying to learn from 'the other side'. Hate is also a health-killer. There's a saying, the only one hate infects is the one who holds it. The whole 'hate the sin, love the sinner' is a crock as long as those who think they are christians feel it is their duty to change everyone's mind to their own narrow way of thinking. 'Accept the sin, love the sinner and leave well enough alone' would better apply to those who claim they are of faith, no?

 

[Independent Patriot]

You're a pretty big breath of fresh air after some of the clowns around here. Welcome! I like you.

While I thank you for the welcome it disturbs me about the "clowns" you speak of. I started this thread to address some of them I have seen posting here. To be a Christian means to be "Christ Like" and I don't remember Christ going around pointing fingers and being outlandish. At times he became angry with sin, but never with sinners. Not even with the guy that betrayed him.

 

[wackestmc]

While I thank you for the welcome it disturbs me about the "clowns" you speak of. I started this thread to address some of them I have seen posting here. To be a Christian means to be "Christ Like" and I don't remember Christ going around pointing fingers and being outlandish. At times he became angry with sin, but never with sinners. Not even with the guy that betrayed him.

I realized that many people claim to be Christians and do not follow a Christian path at all; it's like people just use it as a label sometimes. I often argued with people like this. However, you display a true christian understanding that many lack. Welcome aboard.

 

[ngdawg]

I agree, and I will tell a homosexual that they are sinning and that unless they recognize that and repent they cannot recieve grace through Christ. But, I don't press them and tell them they are going to hell. It is their free will to continue on how they wish. Besides in the end it's not up to me what happens to anyone after their death.

I don't really read out at Religious Tolerance too often, I have noticed several bad interpretations of the Bible there. If that is what they want to believe that is fine, but I will have to wholeheartedly disagree with them.

Why is it your business to tell them they're sinning??? Who died and made you Christ?:roll:

 

[jamesrage]

While I thank you for the welcome it disturbs me about the "clowns" you speak of. I started this thread to address some of them I have seen posting here. To be a Christian means to be "Christ Like" and I don't remember Christ going around pointing fingers and being outlandish. At times he became angry with sin, but never with sinners. Not even with the guy that betrayed him.

You are right and he even told sinners to sin no more.

 

[jamesrage]

Why is it your business to tell them they're sinning??? Who died and made you Christ?:roll:

Did you notice the title of this thread before you even posted in here?

I beleave it has to do something with christians and the issue of homosexuality.So the topic is about how christians some christians treat the sinners who do a particular sin,so your input of "who died and made you christ" is irrelevent.Its like there is a thread about hamburgers and you keep trying to bring up apples.

Is this another one of your grenades as a pathetic misreable attempt to hijack a thread?Kind of like your Christ may have been gay or the there is no proof christ existed comment you made in the "why do people oppose homosexuality" thread in order to hijack the thread?

 

[ngdawg]

Did you notice the title of this thread before you even posted in here?

I beleave it has to do something with christians and the issue of homosexuality.So the topic is about how christians some christians treat the sinners who do a particular sin,so your input of "who died and made you christ" is irrelevent.Its like there is a thread about hamburgers and you keep trying to bring up apples.

Is this another one of your grenades as a pathetic misreable attempt to hijack a thread?Kind of like your Christ may have been gay or the there is no proof christ existed comment you made in the "why do people oppose homosexuality" thread in order to hijack the thread?

A) I was answering and asking directly in that thread since someone else brought up their blindly following what everyone else said Christ didn't say.
B) I asked why does he do that-specially in light of his remarks of 'Christian tolerance', something you know nothing of. Why would someone who claims tolerance bother to inform anyone of perceived sins?
If you have nothing to say in answer, say nothing at all. Your pathetic attempts to derail a thread by picking on me are just that-pathetic.

 

[Independent Patriot]

Hate is what makes one so fired-up, so emotionally unstable. It takes energy to hate, it takes time and it takes a lot of creativity and emotion that would be better spent trying to learn from 'the other side'. Hate is also a health-killer. There's a saying, the only one hate infects is the one who holds it.

Exactly, and so what is the point? It is not up to me as a Christian to determine what is going to happen to them because of their sin, I can only tell them that they can be forgiven, and from there it is up to them. At times trying to learn from the other side is a good thing but it depends on what you are trying to learn. In the case of homosexuality I am in favor of learning about homosexuality, but not learning in the case of accepting homosexuality

'Accept the sin, love the sinner and leave well enough alone' would better apply to those who claim they are of faith, no?

I am sorry but I will never accept any sin. I have no issue with loving the sinner however and leaving someone alone if they just plain reject Christ. I think that is the part that ticks most people off, some Christians just can't leave people alone if they reject their faith. They need to come to the understanding that it is their soul and you can't force someone into the faith.

 

[Independent Patriot]

Why is it your business to tell them they're sinning??? Who died and made you Christ?:roll:

:rofl that's funny!

But to answer your remarks made to jamesrage I think you may have mistaken my tolerance for acceptance. I can tolerate that there are sinners out there who will reject Christianity. But as a Christian I believe we were left with a commission by Christ to spread the gospel. It is not just pointing a finger and telling them they are a sinner, we all are, I am telling them that there is forgiveness and salvation for their sins through Christ's sacrifice. If they tell me to go pound sand then I tolerate the fact that they are not ready to accept and pray that they do someday before it is too late. But don't think that I am just walking up to folks on the street and calling them sinners. There is a little thing called tact and I do try to make good use of it.

 

[jamesrage]

A) I was answering and asking directly in that thread since someone else brought up their blindly following what everyone else said Christ didn't say.
B) I asked why does he do that-specially in light of his remarks of 'Christian tolerance', something you know nothing of. Why would someone who claims tolerance bother to inform anyone of perceived sins?

I find it amsuing that a atheist is trying to comment on christianity and why christians inform those that are sinning that they are sinning.

If you have nothing to say in answer, say nothing at all. Your pathetic attempts to derail a thread by picking on me are just that-pathetic.

Your comment has nothing to do with the subject of this thread,so it deserves no answer. It is like your sad pathetic attempts like in the thread that speculates why people oppose homosexuality.In that thread you tried to accuse Christ of being gay and claim that the did not exist when that thread had nothing to do with those issues.Although you will just claim that you just stating that there is the possibility that christ may be gay and that you were only suggesting that there is no proof of christ existing.

 

[ngdawg]

I find it amsuing that a atheist is trying to comment on christianity and why christians inform those that are sinning that they are sinning.



Your comment has nothing to do with the subject of this thread,so it deserves no answer. It is like your sad pathetic attempts like in the thread that speculates why people oppose homosexuality.In that thread you tried to accuse Christ of being gay and claim that the did not exist when that thread had nothing to do with those issues.Although you will just claim that you just stating that there is the possibility that christ may be gay and that you were only suggesting that there is no proof of christ existing.

You're too one-note. Get off it already.
And it got an answer, a pretty good one.
I find it amusing that someone who claims to be a Christian is so close-minded, bigotted and opinionated and still has NOT contributed to this ongoing dialogue but to spew his own hatred for someone he doesn't know.

 

[jamesrage]

You're too one-note. Get off it already.
And it got an answer, a pretty good one.
I find it amusing that someone who claims to be a Christian is so close-minded, bigotted and opinionated and still has NOT contributed to this ongoing dialogue but to spew his own hatred for someone he doesn't know.

You are not fooling anyone except for maybe the newbe.

 

[ngdawg]

:rofl that's funny!

But to answer your remarks made to jamesrage I think you may have mistaken my tolerance for acceptance. I can tolerate that there are sinners out there who will reject Christianity. But as a Christian I believe we were left with a commission by Christ to spread the gospel. It is not just pointing a finger and telling them they are a sinner, we all are, I am telling them that there is forgiveness and salvation for their sins through Christ's sacrifice. If they tell me to go pound sand then I tolerate the fact that they are not ready to accept and pray that they do someday before it is too late. But don't think that I am just walking up to folks on the street and calling them sinners. There is a little thing called tact and I do try to make good use of it.

Is this 'advice' asked for? If so, then it's one thing. But, even in the course of conversation, unless that particular point is brought up, why do so? You can plainly see here how someone has no tolerance nor acceptance of another's beliefs or ideas-I don't care, won't lose sleep and certainly don't need someone to tell me I'm going to hell because I don't follow a doctrine-the question is, why should it matter to a believer what someone else believes or accepts? Is it not just as opinionated to tell another unrelated to you that they'll pay dearly for their perceived sins, unless they themselves bring up that possibility?
Another question: As I think tolerance and acceptance are not unrelated, why won't you accept that there are people and actions in this world that, having nothing to do with yourself, are core to another's existance? We're not talking white shoes after Labor Day, after all. Seems to me if you accept a person with respect, you must accept that person's whole being, including personal life actions. I have little to no tolerance for someone that would break a law intentionally, but this is not the same thing. In other words, why does it matter to you to the point of telling them they need to repent at all? Why would anyone repent who they are? It's a denial of their lives. Many struggle most of the their lives with this issue, knowing they are not 'normal' ( I don't see them as such-it's a societal classification); to then have someone point out that they're 'sinners', must 'repent', etc., can't do a lot of good toward their own self-acceptance when others don't accept them for who they are. Hope that made sense.:mrgreen:

 

[ngdawg]

You are not fooling anyone except for maybe the newbe.

Unlike yourself, I actually want to know what the thinking is....since you are not contributing, let alone thinking, please go find something to occupy your time. We're having a discussion here and you're beginning to remind me of the toddler who only speaks when mother is on the phone.

*Hands Jamesrage a toy truck

 

[Gardener]

Seems to me that if people would actually follow He for whom the religion is named, and read the New Testament just like they would read any other book -- from front to back -- then there would be little of the hatred directed against gay people as expressed by so many of those who call themselves Christians. It isn't called Paulianity, it isn't about following the pastor or the reverend or the guy bellowing from the street corner, and we usually don't read books by jumping right to page four hundred and something and picking out some tiny piece of text to justify some opinions we already hold that came to us through avenues other than through Jesus. If this religion is to be called Christianity, shouldn't it be about following Jesus? Seems a simple enough concept to me.

I say pick up the N.T, clear the mind of all the pollution already contained within, start reading and focus on the red letters. Jesus trumps Paul. He trumps the preachers and the pastors and the reverends and the ministers and the bishops. I have a difficult time understanding people who say they follow Jesus, but who persecute a small group of people under the guise of Christianity. WWJD? He certainly wouldn't persecute Gay people!