Christianity vs. Transgender Identity

[JRTurner]

Yes. And I would add that we do NOT know the cause of transgenderism and those who claim it can not be a choice do mot have the evidence to make that claim

Just as you don't have the evidence to claim they're wrong.

I suggest you find a better way of asserting yourself on this issue then because that is not the way your communications come across.

Perhaps if you use this:

"Scientifically, we haven't become advanced enough yet to settle genetic questions about sexuality, but I respect transgendered people and reject all bigotry against them."

you'll find more agreement and less controversy.

 

[vegas giants]

Just as you don't have the evidence to claim they're wrong.

I suggest you find a better way of asserting yourself on this issue then because that is not the way your communications come across.

Perhaps if you use this:

"Scientifically, we haven't become advanced enough yet to settle genetic questions about sexuality, but I respect transgendered people and reject all bigotry against them."

you'll find more agreement and less controversy.

If they are asserting they are CERTAIN it's a choice as several have done on this thread they are wrong


Do you agree with that?

I can speak for myself. Your statement is incomplete

 

[Lisa]

Choice is likely a factor. There are likely many factors. It's not binary

My point always has been that we don't know the cause.


Can you read that?

You have no objective evidence of that beyond your opinion. How many trans threads have you made this same unsupported claim but still you cannot post any souce to support your stance. None, zero, zilch, nadda.

 

[vegas giants]

You have no objective evidence of that beyond your opinion. How many trans threads have you made this same unsupported claim but still you cannot post any souce to support your stance. None, zero, zilch, nadda.

Your own reference makes MY CLAIM


My point always has been that we don't know the cause.

 

[JRTurner]

If they are asserting they are CERTAIN it's a choice as several have done on this thread they are wrong

No more wrong or right than you are. (ignoring your misstatement here )

Do you agree with that?

I can speak for myself. Your statement is incomplete

Nope.

 

[vegas giants]

No more wrong or right than you are. (ignoring your misstatement here )

Nope.

You can't answer honestly

You are afraid of violating holy scripture

 

[Lisa]

Your own reference makes MY CLAIM


My point always has been that we don't know the cause.

Yes, we do know the cause. I've posted it multiple times. Denial isn't a river in Egypt.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool...

www.sciencedaily.com

Frontiers | Epigenetics Is Implicated in the Basis of Gender Incongruence: An Epigenome-Wide Association Analysis

IntroductionThe main objective was to carry out a global DNA methylation analysis in a population with gender incongruence before gender-affirming hormone tr...

www.frontiersin.org

 

[vegas giants]

Yes we do know the cause. I've posted it multiple times. Denial isn't a river in Egypt.

Transgender brains are more like their desired gender from an early age

Brain activity and structure in transgender adolescents more closely resembles the typical activation patterns of their desired gender, according to new research. The findings suggest that differences in brain function may occur early in development and that brain imaging may be a useful tool...

www.sciencedaily.com

Frontiers | Epigenetics Is Implicated in the Basis of Gender Incongruence: An Epigenome-Wide Association Analysis

IntroductionThe main objective was to carry out a global DNA methylation analysis in a population with gender incongruence before gender-affirming hormone tr...

www.frontiersin.org

Then why did you post the APA position that says we don't know?


Is the APA lying?

 

[JRTurner]

You can't answer honestly

You are afraid of violating holy scripture

OMG! Seriously? Lol. How respectful of you

Of course I answered honestly. This is why folks don't believe you when you say it's about science.

 

[vegas giants]

OMG! Seriously? Lol. How respectful of you

Of course I answered honestly. This is why folks don't believe you when you say it's about science.

No you didn't. I just asked if you agreed

Or can I put you down as you agree lisa is wrong when she says she is certain it's not a choice


It's ALL about science

 

[Liberal7360]

No one is born Christian. Period, end of story. There are people who are born with psychological and even physical traits associated with transgenderism. It also exists in nature in other species. Thus, it's clearly part of the natural order. Why should Christian belief be respected and transgender identity be demonized? People are indoctrinated into Christian belief, which conservatives claim is being done with transgender identity -- which is, of course, 100% untrue. It is being done with Christianity, without similar complaint, and even with associated tax incentives. It appears that transgender identity is innate to a person, such that after years of therapy and counseling, people end up opting for a surgical solution to achieve inner peace.

OTOH, Christian belief is fluid, voluntary, and can be unlearned quite easily.

Beyond the obvious cultural normalization of Christian fantasy as being normal, I don't see why it should be respected by anyone while the transgender community are under constant assault. If Christianity were introduced today, it would be accompanied by 8-sided dice and printable miniatures for optimal gaming experience. Just saying.

Just because something makes you feel uneasy it doesn't mean you have to hate it and the people associated with it.

I fail to see how christianity has anything to do with trans people.

At least legally and constitutionally.

The constitution clearly gives everyone religious freedom and is supposed to keep the government separate from religion but that part has been ignored since the reagan years.

Personally, I am so sick and tired of christians forcing their religion on the whole nation.

I wish there was a way to put a stop to it.

 

[JRTurner]

No you didn't. I just asked if you agreed

Bullshit. You accused me of being dishonest and having religious issues. That's not merely asking me if I agree.

Or can I put you down as you agree lisa is wrong when she says she is certain it's not a choice

There is no right or wrong when there are no conclusions. I think Lisa's studies are amazing about Gender Dysphoria and I think it's pretty darn close to conclusive. Far better evidence than you've offered.

It's ALL about science

For some people, but not for you, despite you making that claim.

You dismiss the science.

You attack people who read the science and create the science as knowing less than you do.

 

[vegas giants]

Bullshit. You accused me of being dishonest and having religious issues. That's not merely asking me if I agree.

There is no right or wrong when there are no conclusions. I think Lisa's studies are amazing about Gender Dysphoria and I think it's pretty darn close to conclusive. Far better evidence than you've offered.

For some people, but not for you, despite you making that claim.

You dismiss the science.

You attack people who read the science and create the science as knowing less than you do.

There is a wrong answer when someone claims they are certain what the answer is despite the evidence

 

[JRTurner]

There is a wrong answer when someone claims they are certain what the answer is despite the evidence

Then if you claim it's a choice, without evidence, you're wrong.

Is it more important for you to be right before the results are fully concluded, or is it more important to you to be respectful and stop the perpetuation of hate crimes against a minority?

What's your priority?

 

[Lisa]

Then why did you post the APA position that says we don't know?


Is the APA lying?

It is still technically correct that people have no choice about their gender identity.

Then if you claim it's a choice, without evidence, you're wrong.

Is it more important for you to be right before the results are fully concluded, or is it more important to you to be respectful and stop the perpetuation of hate crimes against a minority?

What's your priority?

Vegas still cannot support his claim that gender identity is a choice. That has been highlighted in multiple threads on the subject. he makes a claim that he doesn't have a chance in Hades of proving. He needs to just admit that has has transphobic opinions and drop it. His ideas are more than 30 years behind medical science.

 

[vegas giants]

It is still technically correct that people have no choice about their gender identity.


Vegas still cannot support his claim that gender identity is a choice. That has been highlighted in multiple threads on the subject. he makes a claim that he doesn't have a chance in Hades of proving. He needs to just admit that has has transphobic opinions and drop it. His ideas are more than 30 years behind medical science.

Why doesn't the apa say it's not a choice.


Are they lying?


Or maybe they are not in a religious cult

 

[vegas giants]

Then if you claim it's a choice, without evidence, you're wrong.

Is it more important for you to be right before the results are fully concluded, or is it more important to you to be respectful and stop the perpetuation of hate crimes against a minority?

What's your priority?

You will never say lisa is wrong

I say we don't know


She says she is certain


Just admit who is wrong

 

[JRTurner]

You will never say lisa is wrong

Why would I say her evidence is wrong--without evidence to the contrary? I don't know Lisa and I don't think we've interacted much. But she posted evidence, and you have not.

I say we don't know

No, you say choice is a factor.

She says she is certain

So do you.

Just admit who is wrong

You are--by your own definitions of right and wrong on this subject.

I care more about those who perpetuate prejudices against minorities as it kills people--that is my priority.

What is yours?

 

[vegas giants]

Why would I say her evidence is wrong--without evidence to the contrary? I don't know Lisa and I don't think we've interacted much. But she posted evidence, and you have not.

No, you say choice is a factor.

So do you.

You are--by your own definitions of right and wrong on this subject.

I care more about those who perpetuate prejudices against minorities as it kills people--that is my priority.

What is yours?

Yiu just flat out lie about my position

I sad choice is LIKELY A FACTOR but we don't know


I have said over and over again no one knows what the cause is



How can anyone claim they are CERTAIN it's not choice?

 

[JRTurner]

Yiu just flat out lie about my position

Nope.

I sad choice is LIKELY A FACTOR but we don't know


I have said over and over again no one knows what the cause is



How can anyone claim they are CERTAIN it's not choice?

How can anyone claim they are CERTAIN it is a choice?

Is being right your priority, or is protecting minorities from the perpetuation of bigotry? What is your priority?

 

[vegas giants]

Nope.

How can anyone claim they are CERTAIN it is a choice?

Who said that?

Quote me directly


My god you just lie

 

[JRTurner]

Who said that?

Quote me directly


My god you just lie

Nope. Here you go:

People volunteer to be trans despite the risks. It is a choice

Trans people don't want to be discriminated against. But they choose that risk

Trans people also choose to take risks

I think the choice to be trans can lead to gender dysphoria

 

[vegas giants]

Nope. Here you go:

My position is we don't know for certain


Do you believe me when I say that?

 

[JRTurner]

My position is we don't know for certain


Do you believe me when I say that?

I'm trying to--but you make it nearly impossible when you call me names and attack me personally for questioning the differences in what you're posting, hence my suggestion to help you clarify--which was met with insults.

You seem to be struggling to make yourself understood with a great deal of people. If that were me, I'd take a breath, ask for some feedback, and find ways to be more clear. (And I have done that here, with some help from people who I offended/irritated at times.)

 

[vegas giants]

I'm trying to--but you make it nearly impossible when you call me names and attack me personally for questioning the differences in what you're posting, hence my suggestion to help you clarify--which was met with insults.

You seem to be struggling to make yourself understood with a great deal of people. If that were me, I'd take a breath, ask for some feedback, and find ways to be more clear. (And I have done that here, with some help from people who I offended/irritated at times.)

Then don't believe me. I said my position as clearly as I can to you


It can not possibly be clearer


If you don't believe it there is nothing I can do about that