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Christianity - the real target of hate in gay issue

I don't necessarly believe that if you manipulate the laws that the univers falls apart, especially not if we think that the order that exists is because of God. I do understand your views. I understand your faith in sciend. I respect that you have come to those conclusions. I can honestly say that I have been right where you are with your beliefs, so of course I can understand where you are. I personally found reason to have faith in something different. And maybe you will too, and maybe you won't. But that is your course, your decision. All I ask is that you not judge all Christians based on Shamgar, just as you wouldn't judge all Americans based on Bush.
 
MikeyC said:
But at least I respect your position as opposed to Shamgar's because you seem to understand that your beliefs are guided by faith, as our mine I suppose in science.
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Oh yes since science has the answer for everything . . . . they have detemined that life can be killed as sperm or egg, fertilized egg, fetus, or partially birthed babies . . . yes science has helped us so much . . . and let's not forget all the detrimental drugs/food additives/pesticides, etc that were pulled off the market that were created by science . . . yes we have a "utopia" since science has been our guide . . .

 
Do you propose that our society stop using science all together?
 
Science isn't perfect by any means, but I think it does much to better society. And with a sperm and egg, I'm assuming you mean embryonic stem cell research. With that, you must realize that those are created in a laboratory and don't really have potential for life. Is potential for life the same thing as life? When I took biology 2 years ago, we learned the functions specific to life forms. A sperm an an egg does not constitute this until it has developed and it's born. It can't function and perform life's functions on its own so I don't consider it life. Yeah, those food additive I agree with you do stink. But they're better than the Inquisition...
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
Do you propose that our society stop using science all together?
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No . . . only to stop using "logic" driven scientists . . . you know the ones that think like you . . .

 
Hmm, let's support scientists that don't think using logic. Let's support scients that think through the Bible (sarcasm).
 
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MikeyC said:
Science isn't perfect by any means, but I think it does much to better society. And with a sperm and egg, I'm assuming you mean embryonic stem cell research. With that, you must realize that those are created in a laboratory and don't really have potential for life. Is potential for life the same thing as life? When I took biology 2 years ago, we learned the functions specific to life forms. A sperm an an egg does not constitute this until it has developed and it's born. It can't function and perform life's functions on its own so I don't consider it life. Yeah, those food additive I agree with you do stink. But they're better than the Inquisition...
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You had a class in biology . . . boy I guess you know more than me then . . .I only have a degree in biology . . . .
 
So, when do you think life begins? I mean even though I obviously don't have as much biology knowledge as you, I think it's pretty obvious that a sperm and egg can't support their own life functions without a mother.
 
MikeyC said:
Hmm, let's support scientists that don't think using logic. Let's support scients that think through the Bible (sarcasm).
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Yeah, I guess you prefer your scientists bought and paid for like the cigarette company whore scientists who were bought off for 30 pieces of silver . . . .hahahahahaha (oh that is a Scriptural reference)
 
MikeyC said:
So, when do you think life begins? I mean even though I obviously don't have as much biology knowledge as you, I think it's pretty obvious that a sperm and egg can't support their own life functions without a mother.
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Oh no you're the "expert" . . . you had a class in biology . . . . :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Shamgar said:
Oh no you're the "expert" . . . you had a class in biology . . . . :lol: :lol: :lol:
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...and what? You're a biologist by profession? Yeah, ok, you keep your smug attitude and "scripture" but just remember, back when that little book of fairy tales was written it was still believed that the Earth was FLAT as well as it being the Center Of The Universe.

Whatever. Go back to 4forums and battle VoR for President of the "Clueless" club.
{Oh, that's right, you can't go back, I almost forgot...you were banned}
 
Shamgar said:
Yeah, I guess you prefer your scientists bought and paid for like the cigarette company whore scientists who were bought off for 30 pieces of silver . . . .hahahahahaha (oh that is a Scriptural reference)
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You know, I don't "worship" all scientists like you think I do. I love science though and I respect it very much, but I also understand that science has its faults, which constantly are trying to be fixed. I also understand that scientific knowledge is learned by imperfect beings and therefore can't be perfect, but that doesn't make knowledge imperfect. The search for greater knowledge is a very great thing, which I'm guessing is one of the reasons you turn to the Bible. The Bible stands rigid, how could such a large book with more than one interpretation not have faults?

BTW, with your biology degree, prove my statements wrong please. As a student interested in science I'd like to gain and understand more.
 
JustineCredible said:
Whatever. Go back to 4forums and battle VoR for President of the "Clueless" club.
{Oh, that's right, you can't go back, I almost forgot...you were banned}
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Let's keep the ad hominem attacks out of the forum. Thanks!
 
You know ..with all the talk about how much better the world would be if we were all good christians I'd just like to remind you of one thing.

We let religion rule the world once.... we call these the dark ages for a reason.
 
dogger807 said:
You know ..with all the talk about how much better the world would be if we were all good christians I'd just like to remind you of one thing.

We let religion rule the world once.... we call these the dark ages for a reason.
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And of course pagans were not invented until after the dark ages . . .. . hahahahahaha
 
Shamgar said:
And of course pagans were not invented until after the dark ages . . .. . hahahahahaha
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What are you talking about, paganism such as Greek and Roman mythology pre-dates Christianity and in some cases, influenced its definitions.
 
Shamgar said:
And of course pagans were not invented until after the dark ages . . .. . hahahahahaha
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What do you mean? Pagans were always around before Christianity. People who had their own religions did not name their religions. They did not go jumping around saying "happy us, we're pagans." Pretty much, whatever ruling religion was in power at the time called all other religions that were not with them (sound familiar?) pagans.
 
Shamgar said:
And of course pagans were not invented until after the dark ages . . .. . hahahahahaha
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Wow. That blows my mind.
 
Funny enough, me being gay, I did agree with you on the issue of how the church is being "forced" to accept something that they have banned for centuries. But then again, it is about time the church joined the rest of the world. If the church didn't have to be forced to relinquish control of certain issues, there were be several different things done differently in the world. First of all, you would not be able to quote Bible verses in this forum, because you would not be allowed to even learn to READ the Latin that was predominately used for the Bible. Unless of course you are a priest. Then you may quote away. Somehow, I don't think that is the case here. The church also kept women in a subservient position for centuries. To the point of executing them for looking at other men, and especially wouldn't allow them to hold positions of authority within the church. They required you to buy your way into heaven for decades. They committed genocide for the sake of Christ. They believed (as mentioned before) that the use of the left hand was the Devil's playground. The church promoted slavery for years because of the financial gains the church received from the tithes. You would not be able to enjoy many of the freedoms if the church hadn't been forced to grow with society. All of these stances were supported by Scriptures. But even Christ said that the devil can quote scripture in order to tempt you. Religion stunts progress. It always has, and it always will.
You are correct on one thing, homosexual sex is a sin...... as is ANY kind of sex. UNLESS you are married. Premarital sex of any kind is a "sin". But since the word "homosexual" is modern in origin, any Bible that has it is translated incorrectly. Before you quote verses from a Bible, you should do research on the actual Greek or Arabic words used. They are available to anyone who wishes to understand the words AS THEY WERE WRITTEN. The Bible is one of the most translated works in history, and if you ask anyone who translates, they will tell you that it is VERY difficult, to impossible to convey the correct terminology to someone who doesn't speak the language. Language is fluid. It has always been effected by societal politics. Slang terms mean different things to different people. And if you think that people in that day didn't write according to their particular vernacular, you are both blind and naive. Things just don't mean the same. Issues are different. Standards are different. People are different. You cannot hold people accountable today to a book that was written and re-written and edited by fallible men.
 
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I'm not gonna get into an argument on this thread because it seems to be diverted off topic already, but I will state my opinion.

Yes, most of the homosexual movement is either a direct or indirect attack on religion of some form. Some homosexual activists realize this and won't admit, some don't realize it and participate because it's the "in" thing to do. The Cause du jour.

Homosexual culture is resentful of the religious culture's intolerance and unacceptance of homosexual acitivities. They want to force their way into being thought of as something other than just people with a sexual perversion through Hollywood and "progressive" members of the judicial system into mainstream society. It has worked in some areas, homosexual celebreties and "victims" have endeared themselves to the left, which due to the country's eroding standard of moral values has gradually placed the homosexual community on a pedestal as a staple of modern political activism. When in reality, the hardships of the conservative unacceptance of the sexual activities of less than 4% of the entire american population hardly deserves to be the focus of the entire attention of the United States when taking into account the current geo-political landscape. In fact, when you truely look at it in perspective of the modern world, "gay rights issues" really aren't even deserving of an entire section of this forum dedicated to their whining.
 
Stherngntlmn said:
Yes, most of the homosexual movement is either a direct or indirect attack on religion of some form. Some homosexual activists realize this and won't admit, some don't realize it and participate because it's the "in" thing to do. The Cause du jour.
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Wait, what about the religious movement to attack the homosexuals. Or the religious movement to accept the homosexuals? Easily dismissed when they don't buttress your opinion?

Stherngntlmn said:
In fact, when you truely look at it in perspective of the modern world, "gay rights issues" really aren't even deserving of an entire section of this forum dedicated to their whining.
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And how much should we dedicate to your whining then?
 
shuamort said:
And how much should we dedicate to your whining then?
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I don't expect you to dedicate anything to it. I know for a fact that my individual opinions are minute and insignificant in regards to the world, but nonetheless, I enjoy rambling about them and having rational discussions with people of opposing worldviews and viewpoints.. maybe even with the glimmer of hope that my point of view may encourage someone else to reevaluate theirs... or that someone may discuss with me a perspective angle from which I haven't approached a topic before and I might be able to better align my views with new information and empathy I haven't seen before.
 
Where we can't pressure existing churches to change their doctrines and promote gay couples as morally equivalent to straight couples, we are just creating our own churches that promote Queers and our agenda.

We did it in Spain, where we held banners that said "Transexuals Next".
 
shuamort said:
What are you talking about, paganism such as Greek and Roman mythology pre-dates Christianity and in some cases, influenced its definitions.
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Oh sorry . . . it is called a sarcastic remark . . . . since I don't need to be spoon fed myself, I presume no one else does . . . . my mistake . . .

 
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